1 or the 99?

[seeker2122]

Do you think a church / ministry / pastoral leadership that focuses more on the 99 instead of the 1
are doing it somewhat wrong or misguided?

Scriptures teaches us that Jesus (Shepherd) will go out for the 1 and leave the 99 and that shepherd
will be happier about the 1 than the 99 that didn't wander off.

If there is 1 person who is lost or troubled and the church / leadership doesn't leave the 99 (the church members)
to go out and seek for that 1 and bring him/her back, aren't they missing something? Seems like they
are not following the correct path/procedure of how to do ministry and be a "Shepherd" for your sheep.

These days I feel that churches are too focused on themselves and who is sitting in the pews. If they only focus
inwards and themselves, they do not reach out for those that have strayed or are lost, then what good are churches
for anyway? It's just about maintenance, taking care of your own yard, and not caring about what's going on
beyond your well-kept yard. Isn't church supposed to be the opposite? You would leave the 99 to go and seek
for the 1 and when the 1 is found and returns, you'll be much happier about that 1 than the 99 who stayed in the pews.

 

[seeker2122]

Anybody can chime in? This is a very important topic and I think the major problem for churches today is exactly this issue. The church doesn't function to help others and the community and the poor...they mainly function and operate to just keep the lights on inside the church.

 

[Paidiske]

I think the idea that we can neatly divide people into church members (not lost or troubled) and those outside (lost or troubled) is probably over simplifying.

I also think that my job as a parish priest is to enable, equip and encourage the congregation members to do the work of mission; not for me to do it all on their behalf. In a well-functioning church the members will be reaching those in the wider community, not sitting back and waiting for the clergy to do it.

That is not a defence of being inward-looking! But it is a response to some of the underlying assumptions that seem to be indicated in your post.

 

[seeker2122]

I think the idea that we can neatly divide people into church members (not lost or troubled) and those outside (lost or troubled) is probably over simplifying.

I also think that my job as a parish priest is to enable, equip and encourage the congregation members to do the work of mission; not for me to do it all on their behalf. In a well-functioning church the members will be reaching those in the wider community, not sitting back and waiting for the clergy to do it.

That is not a defence of being inward-looking! But it is a response to some of the underlying assumptions that seem to be indicated in your post.

I've conducted an unintentional experiment with shocking results. I was born into the church. I grew up in the church. I became a believer in my youth. I served in the church. Many years later, I'm now in the situation of being on the "outside" looking in whereas I was always inside looking out. When I was in the church doing ministry, I focused mostly inwardly and felt good and content as if the life I was to live was to just focus on what goes inside the 4 walls of a church and the members in it. Having experienced now what it's like to be on the outside, I am shocked by how most churches do not care or do very little to reach out and make a committed effort outwardly. They might ask you 1 or 2 times and then decide to leave you alone and never contact you again. As a believer, I realize how ineffective the churches are today in that majority of the members and the church leadership itself only focus on who's in the seats and don't have much effort or care for those outside.

I never realized and knew how cold churches are and now I can see why most people on the outside who are not believers would have a hard time being drawn to or attracted to the fragrance of Christ via the churches when most churches only emit a fragrance of self-centeredness and hypocrisy.

I've met some christians are absolutely living the life of serving others and sacrificing for Christ's sake. They spend 80-90% of their time just doing "missions" related work serving in the community, serving others, reaching out, and spending less time on maintenance and thinking about themselves inside the walls. But I've found that most churches function like a social group. You find a group of people you can get along well with and socialize together and then you are part of the group because you "fit in". But if you don't "fit in" then nobody cares and don't mind that you actually leave because you didn't fit in. The whole point of a church is that you don't fit in but they still want you. That's not what I see anymore. I only see groups that polarize together and stay together so long as they are socially compatible. Anyone or anytime there is something that is "difficult" and incompatible, the solution is simply, the majority wins and stay and so the minority can just leave and go elsewhere.

Jesus never operated that way. He never looked for a comfortable group to belong to. He didn't seek out only his interests and what works with him. He sought out the disgusting, the outcast, the downtrodden, the castaways, the ones nobody wanted or looked down upon or judged. He went there. That's what church is all about or supposed to be.

This is why I brought up the 1 vs the 99. Today's churches mainly care about the 99 and don't care about 1. The 1 can deal with it themselves and if they wanted to go to church, they could make the effort and just come. Instead of that attitude, they should have the same heart as Jesus did which was to go out and find the 1 lost and bring them back into the fold. As a Christian, I never found it so difficult to go somewhere where people actually care about you and not just see you as another number. I bet if I gave $1000 a week in offering, those churches would suddenly be calling me up checking up on me every day and encouraging me to come out and invite me left right and center with reminders and visitations and gifts etc. But if you're somebody of lowly status and has nothing to offer, churches dont seem to care much about you but of course on the exterior will still play their part by being kind and caring but you soon realize that only goes about 1 inch deep.

 

[gym_class_hero]

I think what Pastors and other church leaders struggle with sometimes is how far you go to "bring back the 1." We have to pray for discernment. Sometimes the 1 isn't really interested in the changes they need to make to move forward in their spiritual walk. It appears Jesus let the rich young man walk away and didn't chase him. Sometimes you get so invested in ministering to someone, it becomes detrimental. So you turn them over to God, keep praying for them but realize your human efforts are not going to affect the change needed in that person's life. Maybe the leaders in the church the OP is referring to are continuing to pray for the 1, while focusing their efforts where there is more fruit or chance for fruit.

 

[lismore]

Do you think a church / ministry / pastoral leadership that focuses more on the 99 instead of the 1
are doing it somewhat wrong or misguided?

Interesting Q. For me the key is the leadership equipping the people so that all look out for the stranger, the lonely, the vulnerable. All notice when someone is missing. Church is a family, not a social clique.

"So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples." (John 13:34)

Philippians 2: 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

God Bless You

 

[Paidiske]

I think what Pastors and other church leaders struggle with sometimes is how far you go to "bring back the 1." We have to pray for discernment. Sometimes the 1 isn't really interested in the changes they need to make to move forward in their spiritual walk. It appears Jesus let the rich young man walk away and didn't chase him. Sometimes you get so invested in ministering to someone, it becomes detrimental. So you turn them over to God, keep praying for them but realize your human efforts are not going to affect the change needed in that person's life. Maybe the leaders in the church the OP is referring to are continuing to pray for the 1, while focusing their efforts where there is more fruit or chance for fruit.

I think, sadly, it might be even more simple than that. The demands on our time are constant; if one person walks away and doesn't want anything from us right now, there will be others emailing, calling, and so on; more than we can properly care for. And all, or almost all, our time and attention ends up going to the person right in front of us who is demanding it.

Just to illustrate, right now, I am owed five days in lieu (for five days off that have been taken up with work). This week I have had a few "extra" things - a big funeral, the beginning of Lent, and some other bits and pieces (notably, dealing with a safety issue with one of our buildings) - that makes it likely that I might need to lose at least part of this week's day off as well. The workload of extra things between now and Easter means that it will be April before I am likely to catch up on even basic workload.

In that time, if someone slips quietly away and is wondering why they haven't heard from me, the honest answer will be, "I have not had time to look over the list of parishioners and wonder whom I haven't seen, and whether I ought to be in touch." I will have been constantly running from one urgent task to the next, just trying not to drop anything critical. I am not saying that it is right (in fact, it is not!), but I am trying to give an honest portrait of what ministry looks like for a lot of us.

I think the moral of my story might be, if you want excellent pastoral care, take care not to overburden your pastor with more work than anyone other than Jesus or his mother could handle.

 

[lismore]

I think what Pastors and other church leaders struggle with sometimes is how far you go to "bring back the 1."

Sometimes Pastors/Elders/Deacons do a lot of work behind the scenes that isn't visible to many. They might be extremely busy, extremely stretched. They can't do it all. Anyone in the church can send a little card or a phone call or email, a little 'how are you?' can go a long way.

God Bless

​

 

[seeker2122]

Interesting Q. For me the key is the leadership equipping the people so that all look out for the stranger, the lonely, the vulnerable. All notice when someone is missing. Church is a family, not a social clique.

"So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples." (John 13:34)

Philippians 2: 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

God Bless You

John 13:34 was the passage that I also thought of during those times. I thought to myself, are we a church to loves one another and shows it so that when outsiders see us, they will see the way we love each other with the love of Christ and then know we are his disciples.

Most of the time the answer was no. Does this mean I am being very critical or judgmental? I spoke to some visitors who had left or didn't want to come back and got the same or similar answers, that the place didn't feel very welcoming, or warm, and sometimes felt left out. I felt sad about that too because I could relate and corroborate with their observation.

I know the answer is simply, be the change you want to see, and not to expect others to be what I want. I can only control myself and it's not for me to control others and tell them they should be more like John 13:34. Somehow, it must happen to each of them through the Holy Spirit and each person must realize or be convicted of the truth and make his/her own decision.

Is there such a thing as a sin of not doing John 13:34? If you fail to live that out, is that like sinning or disobeying God or is it something just happens by the HS leading and we have little to no responsibility? If the church can't love each other to this extent, then there's even less chance they'll be loving to outsiders or people or aren't part of their church.

There seems to be a proper order to this. Having a loving relationship with Christ first, then you'll be able to love one another within the church / body of Christ, and lastly you'll be able to love outsiders and welcome them in.