1 John 1:9

[JohnD70X7]

1 John 1:9 (AV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Down through human history... God has confronted man with sin in an attempt to get man to face his sin. 1 John 1:9 is precisely that. We are forgiven all sin (as the tense of "forgive" is in the Greek: has forgiven / does forgive / shall forgive)... but with the confession to God not to others (Psalm 51:4)... we "come along side" God Greek "confess" homo logeo to face and acknowledge our sin...

some say to restore fellowship, I say to remove the sludge we encase ourselves in with sin from our otherwise crystal clear walk with God...

 

[ReesePiece23]

My favourite bible verse for SO many reasons. There's nothing controversial about it at all, it's beautiful scripture.

 

[Butterball1]

My favourite bible verse for SO many reasons. There's nothing controversial about it at all, it's beautiful scripture.

But there is controversy about the verse. The verse does show that fogiveness of sins is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian's willingness (or unwillingness) to confess (verb - present tense, subjunctive mood) his/her sins. Meaning God's forgiveness/salvation (sunjunctive mood) is not automatically UNconditional no matter what the Christian does or does not do. OSAS creates controversy where none exists.

 

[ReesePiece23]

But there is controversy about the verse. The verse does show that fogiveness of sins is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian's willingness (or unwillingness) to confess (verb - present tense, subjunctive mood) his/her sins. Meaning God's forgiveness/salvation (sunjunctive mood) is not automatically UNconditional no matter what the Christian does or does not do. OSAS creates controversy where none exists.

I like it in that the verse (among other things) condemns self righteousness - which *I* think has done MORE to destroy Christianity than anything else. (Though people are free to debate me on that one.)

But I don't prescribe to the OSAS mentality. It's not over until I breathe my final breath; until then, I've got to keep checking myself. In life, you improve by virtue of your mistakes - and for me, I improve by virtue of my sins. I don't go out to intentionally make them, but I like to be aware so that I CAN confess, debrief, grow, then go on to help someone else out.

It just strengthens our communication with Him if anything. Not everything needs to be read as autocratic and dour. Often it's to offer us even MORE freedom than we already had. It's the ongoing paradox of Christianity.

 

[Butterball1]

I like it in that the verse (among other things) condemns self righteousness - which *I* think has done MORE to destroy Christianity than anything else. (Though people are free to debate me on that one.)

The verse does say God "is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." But this cleansing from unrighteousness is conditional upon the Christian's willingness to conditionally confess his/her sins.

 

[Servus]

1 John 1:9 (AV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Down through human history... God has confronted man with sin in an attempt to get man to face his sin. 1 John 1:9 is precisely that. We are forgiven all sin (as the tense of "forgive" is in the Greek: has forgiven / does forgive / shall forgive)... but with the confession to God not to others (Psalm 51:4)... we "come along side" God Greek "confess" homo logeo to face and acknowledge our sin...

some say to restore fellowship, I say to remove the sludge we encase ourselves in with sin from our otherwise crystal clear walk with God...

In other words, coming clean with God.

 

[ReesePiece23]

The verse does say God "is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." But this cleansing from unrighteousness is conditional upon the Christian's willingness to conditionally confess his/her sins.

Which I think is fair enough. God offered us salvation but He also gave us a brain. He wants us to engage it every now and then. (Otherwise, what would be the point?)

 

[Servus]

The verse does say God "is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." But this cleansing from unrighteousness is conditional upon the Christian's willingness to conditionally confess his/her sins.

Maybe it just means the first time around. Afterall it doesn't say "If we keep confessing our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins each and every time we confess, because every time you sin, it's back to square one."

 

[Maria Billingsley]

1 John 1:9 (AV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Down through human history... God has confronted man with sin in an attempt to get man to face his sin. 1 John 1:9 is precisely that. We are forgiven all sin (as the tense of "forgive" is in the Greek: has forgiven / does forgive / shall forgive)... but with the confession to God not to others (Psalm 51:4)... we "come along side" God Greek "confess" homo logeo to face and acknowledge our sin...

some say to restore fellowship, I say to remove the sludge we encase ourselves in with sin from our otherwise crystal clear walk with God...

Welcome! Yes we can confess to our Father directly but we can also confess to a brother or sister in Christ. There is also the act of reconciliation. Blessings.

 

[JohnD70X7]

Welcome! Yes we can confess to our Father directly but we can also confess to a brother or sister in Christ. There is also the act of reconciliation. Blessings.

Thanks for the welcomen.

Sure. But consider as well:

Micah 7:5 (AV)
5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.

Human nature is a factor that will catch you quite off guard especially when it involves sin.

I believe in fellowship and reconciliation... but it is better not to have sinned than to offer sacrifice, is it not?

And people who you think would lay their life down for you will betray you / judge you especially in matters of admission of guilt. They may hold a grudge for ever. Do you put your 12 step plan on hold because one you wronged won;t let it go?

This sort of thing belongs in the hands of God alone as King David said.

I also found (not you) but some use confession to priests, before the congregation, to one's spouse as a means of control / manipulation. So beware.

A pregnant teen once went through the humiliation confessing her fornication to the congregation... they excommunicated her.

 

[Butterball1]

Maybe it just means the first time around. Afterall it doesn't say "If we keep confessing our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins each and every time we confess, because every time you sin, it's back to square one."

Hi,

In post #3 I posted " The verse does show that fogiveness of sins is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian's willingness (or unwillingness) to confess (verb - present tense, subjunctive mood) his/her sins. "

The present tense of the verb 'confess' denotes an action that is ongoing, sustained. So the idea of the verse is "if we keep on confessing our sins...". Sunjunctive mood shows God's forgivenss is conditional upon an ongoing, sustained confessing. Just as in John 3:16 the "not perishing" is conditional upon a present tense, sustained, ongoing "beleiveth".

As long as the Christian continues to confess it will not be back to 'square one'.

 

[com7fy8]

But it is written >

"forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (in Ephesians 4:32)

"if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." (in Mark 11:26)

While others do not forgive me . . . have I myself been forgiving "even as God"?

Righteousness includes forgiving "even as God", I would say. And God includes us to help minister this to each other >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

But I understand this means sharing with someone who is proven worthy of your trust > you can tell who is ministering grace to you so you are becoming and loving and forgiving more and more maturely like Christ. But, also, I would say, be ready to love and help someone in case he or she turns out to not be genuine. Have hope for the one who fails and even betrays > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

Be strong in love, so we are ready to love and offer good example to ones who are not loving and kind and generously forgiving. This way, we are not under the power of ones who turn out to be wrong.

 

[Servus]

Hi,

In post #3 I posted " The verse does show that fogiveness of sins is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian's willingness (or unwillingness) to confess (verb - present tense, subjunctive mood) his/her sins. "

The present tense of the verb 'confess' denotes an action that is ongoing, sustained. So the idea of the verse is "if we keep on confessing our sins...". Sunjunctive mood shows God's forgivenss is conditional upon an ongoing, sustained confessing. Just as in John 3:16 the "not perishing" is conditional upon a present tense, sustained, ongoing "beleiveth".

As long as the Christian continues to confess it will not be back to 'square one'.

So John doesn't say if we continue to confess because of the verb he used. I don't think I'm buying into that. I don't think justification is meant to be a sink or swim us trading water operation. For instance, what if someone tells a lie, and then gets hit by a bus before they have time to confess? What if you forget to confess a sin etc? I believe God already knows I'm sorry for the sins I commit. I confess them as a matter of coming clean with God and so that I can ask for help in overcoming them, not to keep from having my justification revoked.

 

[Butterball1]

So John doesn't say if we continue to confess because of the verb he used. I don't think I'm buying into that. I don't think justification is meant to be a sink or swim us trading water operation. For instance, what if someone tells a lie, and then gets hit by a bus before they have time to confess? What if you forget to confess a sin etc? I believe God already knows I'm sorry for the sins I commit. I confess them as a matter of coming clean with God and so that I can ask for help in overcoming them, not to keep from having my justification revoked.

The Greek present tense denotes that cofessing is not a one and done deal done once for all time but a continuous process. Again, as in John 3:16 "believeth" is not a one and done deal where one can believe for a moment then quit believing yet still be saved. The present tense denotes believing is a life long process. The present tense in Greek. A demonstration using John 3:16

 

[Dan Perez]

My favourite bible verse for SO many reasons. There's nothing controversial about it at all, it's beautiful scripture.

Hi and in 1 John 3:9 , you MUST believe in SINLESS PERFECTION ?

#1 These Greeks words HE IS BORN / GENNAO is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE an in the INDICATIVE MOOD .

#2 The PERFECT TENSE means when you are born again , AND from that point of your BORN AGAIN experience you are OSAS .

#3 The PASSIVE VOICE means that Christ does the KEEPING .

#4 The INDICATIVE MOOD means that it is a FACT .

#5 And if you are BORN OF GOD /THEOS , you can SIN is in the Greek GENITIVE CASE and means that it is a DESCRIPTION of your NOT SINNING !

dan p

 

[Servus]

The Greek present tense denotes that cofessing is not a one and done deal done once for all time but a continuous process. Again, as in John 3:16 "believeth" is not a one and done deal where one can believe for a moment then quit believing yet still be saved. The present tense denotes believing is a lifelong process. The present tense in Greek. A demonstration using John 3:16

So you're going by an obscure blog.

 

[Servus]

Which I think is fair enough. God offered us salvation but He also gave us a brain. He wants us to engage it every now and then. (Otherwise, what would be the point?)

That's where the problem lies. The problem lies with the notion of salvation through self-achievement.

 

[Butterball1]

So you're going by an obscure blog.

Just giving information about the Greek present tense. No surprise those who support OSAS hate the Greek present tense, subjunctive mood and conditional statements as 1 John 1:9 that begins with a conditional "if".
The present tense in Jn 3:16 shows one must continue to believe, a life long process, the same with confession in 1 Jn 1:9. Since you don't think this is correct, then you are saying one can quit believing yet still be saved anyway in his unbelief?

1 John 1:7 "But if (conditional word) we walk (present tense) in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth (present tense) us from all sin."
In the same context of 1 Jn 1:9, will you suggest one can stop walking in the light yet be saved anyway? But if one quits walking in the light he goes back to walking in the darkness (1 John 1:6) but saved anyway while walking in the dark?

Doing as God says as confessing is called obedience, doing righteousness. Not confessing is called disobedience, unrighteousness.

 

[ReesePiece23]

That's where the problem lies. The problem lies with the notion of salvation through self-achievement.

Actually, I didn't say that...

Ever.

At ANY point.

I hate it when members on CF stuff words into my mouth like that. I happens SO often and it's seriously irritating.

 

[Danthemailman]

Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Certain people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" This leads to salvation by works.

Genuine believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.