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1 Jn 2:5

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by Unix, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. he-man

    he-man he-man

    United States
    1Jn 2:5 But whoever abides by his word, truly in this the love of God has been reached: by this we know that we are in him.

    1Jn 2:5 ος δ αν τηρη αυτου τον λογον αληθως εν τουτω η αγαπη του θεου τετελειωται εν τουτω γινωσκομεν οτι εν αυτω εσμεν
  2. Radagast

    Radagast wonders what's going on around here

    Literally: ὃς δ’ ἂν (but whoever) τηρῇ αὐτοῦ τὸν λόγον (keeps his word), ἀληθῶς ἐν τούτῳ (truly in him) ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ (the love of God) τετελείωται (is made perfect/complete). ἐν τούτῳ γινώσκομεν (in this we know) ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐσμεν (that we are in Him).

    The ESV is an excellent literal translation: but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him.

    So is the NABRE, but perhaps with a better word order: But whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in him. This is the way we may know that we are in union with him:

    The KJV is excellent, but in archaic English: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    "The Message" gives a good paraphrase: If someone claims, "I know him well!" but doesn't keep his commandments, he's obviously a liar. His life doesn't match his words. But the one who keeps God's word is the person in whom we see God's mature love. This is the only way to be sure we're in God. Anyone who claims to be intimate with God ought to live the same kind of life Jesus lived.

    The main translation issue is what "love of God" means. Notice this switch:

    NIV 1984: But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him

    NIV 2011: But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him

    In a situation like that, my preference is for a literal (i.e. ambiguous) translation like the ESV, and to go to commentaries for the meaning. The commentary by John Painter (Liturgical Press, 2008) notes the ambiguity, and uses 1 John 4:12 as context to interpret it as "God's love." The commentary by Robert W. Yarbrough (Baker Academic, 2008) goes the same way, although there is not total consensus among commentators.
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  3. Radagast

    Radagast wonders what's going on around here

    I'm not sure "best" is completely meaningful, in that many stylistically different choices are just as good as each other.
  4. stan1953

    stan1953 Well-Known Member


    I use the NIV 2011 mostly. Then I consult the NASB and the HSCB when I study.
    Biblegateway.com has many Bible translations. There are 31 English translations alone, plus many other languages. A total of 115 versions including the English ones.
    I use quite a few online tools. This is my favourite site; Blue Letter Bible - Home Page

    1 John 2:1-4
    New International Version (NIV)
    My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

    1 John 2:1-4 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ the Righteous One. He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world. This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    1 John 2:6 NIV
    Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

    1 John 2:6 HSCB
    The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

    The problem with switching between versions for each verse, is continuity and how the translators worked together. They are large groups of people, not just a few, and they have a collective goal, which is always born out in their collective styles. I don't see much difference in the versions you've noted and the versions I've noted, except my library is much smaller. One NIV Bible. The rest is eBook or Online.
    Last edited: May 7, 2012
  5. Unix

    Unix Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar Supporter

    I've recently bought these 2 books:
    New Light and Truth: The Making of the Revised English Bible, by Roger Coleman, 1989
    and The Language and Imagery of the Bible, © 1980 G. B. Caird, Duckworth Studies in Theology
    These books are very helpful in assisting on British English and for understanding interpretation-problems of languages You don't know (Hebrew).

    I look for:
    • versions that give the right Christian theological implication in the word(s) or the verse,
    • and in some passages versions that take out some of the too complex terminology and replace it with intelligible wording, (such as culturally bound context)
    • I mostly leave puns word-for-word in English as they are in the original language. But in some cases in the OT and the Deuterocanonicals it's more important that the meaning comes out.
    • and versions that sacrifice some of the style and sound of a Bible for other more important things in bringing the meaning through.
    I'm using more and more Gk, and I have the Logos 4 Original Languages base-package and feel right now for keeping it as it has turned out very usable.
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    NKJV or KJV or even NASB would be good. Possibly YLT.

    John 14:15 "If you Love Me Keep My Commandments"
    Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and Keep My Commandments".
    1Cor 7:19 "What matters is Keeping the commandments of God"
    Rev 14:12 The saints "Keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".

    So not to surprising 1John 2:3-8 talking about those who claim to know Christ "keeping His Commandments".

    in Christ,

  7. he-man

    he-man he-man

    United States
    No, they are based on the spurious Textus Receptus which constituted the translation base for the original German Luther Bible, for the translation of the New Testament into English by William Tyndale, the King James Version, and for most other Reformation-era New Testament translations throughout Western and Central Europe. The series originated with the first printed Greek New Testament to be published; a work undertaken in Basel by the Dutch Catholic scholar and humanist Desiderius Erasmus in 1516, on the basis of some six manuscripts, [none before the 10th Century]containing between them not quite the whole of the New Testament. The lacking text was translated from Vulgate. Although based mainly on late manuscripts [none of which were before the 10th Century] of the Byzantine text-type.

    The spurious text of 1John 5:7 was included so try these for starters:

    "The Greek New Testament", Fourth Revised Edition, with Dictionary 2007 United Bible Societies, USA; Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft. D-Stuttgart, 13th Priniting
    in cooperation with "Institute for New Testament Textual Research"

    Not to mention the following hard copies:
    A Full Collection of Codex Sinaiticus, by Scrivener
    Beza's Novum Testamentum 1565
    Novum Testamentum Vaticanum, C Tischendorf
    New Testament in the Original Greek by Westcott and Hort
    Codex Alexandrinus
    Codex Sinaiticus

    Hard Copies of commentaries, Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich, and numerous Dictionaries; Word Study Greek-English New Testament, McReynolds; A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, Bercot; Diessmann's Bible Studies, and Divry's English-Greek Greek-English Dictionary.

    All with Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus are two of the most valuable manuscripts for establishing the original text of the Greek New Testament, as well as the Septuagint.

    Codex Sinaiticus is the only uncial manuscript with the complete text of the New Testament, and the only ancient manuscript of the New Testament written in four columns per page which has survived to the present day.
    The work was written in scripta continua with neither breathings nor polytonic accents. Occasional points and few ligatures are used, though nomina sacra with overlines are employed throughout.

    For most of the New Testament, Codex Sinaiticus is in general agreement with Codex Vaticanus and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, attesting the Alexandrian text-type. A notable example of an agreement between the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus texts is that they both omit the word εικη ('without cause', 'without reason', 'in vain') from Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment."

    A portion of the Codex Sinaiticus, containing Esther 2:3-8.Only in John 1:1-8:38 Codex Sinaiticus represents different text-type than Vaticanus and any other Alexandrian manuscript. It is in closer agreement with Codex Bezae in support of the Western text-type. F.e. in John 1:3 Sinaiticus and Codex Bezae are only Greek manuscripts with textual variant ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἐστίν (in him is life) instead of ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ᾓν (in him was life). This variant is supported by Vetus Latina and some Sahidic manuscripts

    According to Hort, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus were derived from a common original much older, "the date of which cannot be later than the early part of the second century, and may well be yet earlier".
    Corrections represent Byzantine text-type, just like in codices: Bodmer II, Regius (L), Ephraemi (C), and Sangallensis (Δ). They were discovered by Cambridge scholar Edward A. Button.

    Uncorrected is the pervasive iotacism, especially of the ει diphthong.
    Codex Sinaiticus - New World Encyclopedia