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1 Corinthians 6:9-11

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Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


When I read these verses, I don't believe for one second that the kinds of people mentioned here are barred from the Kingdom of God. The kinds of people I believe are barred from the Kingdom of God are those who are not doing God's will - or to put it another way - those who reject God's Laws.

When we look at the list of kinds of people mentioned here, we see that they all have one thing in common: the are all breaking the Law of God. This is what wicked means to me. When people such as these become sanctified they join with Christ in serving the will of God - they become law-abiding.

To me then, those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven are the lawless one, the ones breaking God's Law.

:groupray:
 

cimbk

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Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


When I read these verses, I don't believe for one second that the kinds of people mentioned here are barred from the Kingdom of God. The kinds of people I believe are barred from the Kingdom of God are those who are not doing God's will - or to put it another way - those who reject God's Laws.

When we look at the list of kinds of people mentioned here, we see that they all have one thing in common: the are all breaking the Law of God. This is what wicked means to me. When people such as these become sanctified they join with Christ in serving the will of God - they become law-abiding.

To me then, those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven are the lawless one, the ones breaking God's Law.

:groupray:
And I used to be all those things, and was cleansed, sanctified, justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God........important to notice the most crucial part of Pauls statement when describing all these sinful actions that will keep a person out of the kingdom of God 1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such "WERE" some of you". WERE is a very important part of this teaching, as past tense, as they nolonger live that way, no longer in drunkeness, no longer in extorting money, no longer comitting adultery, no longer a homosexual, no longer stealing....etc...etc...Its pretty evident from this and many other passages that remaining in a life of willful sinfulness will not produce everlasting life, but only lead to death and separation from a God who wants you to be conformed to the image of His Son
 
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St_Worm2

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Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


When I read these verses, I don't believe for one second that the kinds of people mentioned here are barred from the Kingdom of God. The kinds of people I believe are barred from the Kingdom of God are those who are not doing God's will - or to put it another way - those who reject God's Laws.

When we look at the list of kinds of people mentioned here, we see that they all have one thing in common: the are all breaking the Law of God. This is what wicked means to me. When people such as these become sanctified they join with Christ in serving the will of God - they become law-abiding.

To me then, those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven are the lawless one, the ones breaking God's Law.

:groupray:

Hi Judge, first off, welcome to CF .. :wave: I hope your time here is enjoyable and fruitful .. :)

I've gotta say though, your post seems a little unusual for a Pantheist .. :scratch: Who does and who does not get to enter the Kingdom of God? Obeying God in Christ? Are these the things that most Pantheists sit around and discuss .. :confused:

Yours and His,
David
 
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And I used to be all those things, and was cleansed, sanctified, justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God........important to notice the most crucial part of Pauls statement when describing all these sinful actions that will keep a person out of the kingdom of God 1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such "WERE" some of you". WERE is a very important part of this teaching, as past tense, as they nolonger live that way, no longer in drunkeness, no longer in extorting money, no longer comitting adultery, no longer a homosexual, no longer stealing....etc...etc...Its pretty evident from this and many other passages that remaining in a life of willful sinfulness will not produce everlasting life, but only lead to death and separation from a God who wants you to be conformed to the image of His Son


Yes that's right. These kinds of people were like that, i.e. breakers of the Law of God. I can tell you that I myself used to be unlawfull in the sight of God also. I used to practice homosexual intercourse. Now that I've accepted Jesus I no longer practice homosexual intercourse, however I am still homosexual by nature. There is nothing I can do to change the way I feel about other males. Believe me, I've tried. All I can do is become sanctified, which is just another way of saying I'm now one of those who obey God's Laws.

If you feel that homosexuality is something that "develops" as a result of something going wrong with one's sexual development, I would urge you to re-evaluate your feelings. I believe that each and every one of us has within the potential to disobey God in some way, a potential that can be drawn out by the Opposer and used against us.

For some, this potential exists in the form of alcoholism. Alcoholics will tell you the same thing I am telling you now, there is no such thing as a cured alcoholic. There is only such a thing as an alcoholic who choses never again to drink alcohol.

And it is the same for me. I am a homosexual who chooses never again to fornicate.

Peace through love and understanding :wave:
 
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Hi Judge, first off, welcome to CF .. :wave: I hope your time here is enjoyable and fruitful .. :)

I've gotta say though, your post seems a little unusual for a Pantheist .. :scratch: Who does and who does not get to enter the Kingdom of God? Obeying God in Christ? Are these the things that most Pantheists sit around and discuss .. :confused:

Yours and His,
David

Yes, my kind of pantheism is a little unusual. Typically, pantheists believe in the existence of many gods. I, however, believe that there is only One True God who expresses himself to man in as many ways as there are men. This One True God does this in order to give everyone the chance of finding Him no matter where they choose to look for Him. Be it Budhism, athiesm, philosophy or even science. This One True God will find a way of expressing Himself to us on our terms not His. However, He has the last laugh. No matter where you look for Him - or even if like atheists you think you're not looking for Him - you will one day discover He's been there right beside you all along, just waiting for you to realise that.

And who is this One True God? The God of Love, of course! :amen:
 
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Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The kingdom of God is in the present, but few enter, for few turn as John and see Him in the midst. Jesus was the First of many brethren or mothers, brothers , sisters.
 
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drjean

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JudgeDracoAmunRa you list yourself as a pantheist, yet claim to be a Christian. Pantheists do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. Are you posting in search of what to believe? It appears you seem pretty set in what you believe. I have no problem discussing the Truth with a seeking believer, but am tired of being drawn into arguments by unbelievers.
 
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cimbk

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Yes that's right. These kinds of people were like that, i.e. breakers of the Law of God. I can tell you that I myself used to be unlawfull in the sight of God also. I used to practice homosexual intercourse. Now that I've accepted Jesus I no longer practice homosexual intercourse, however I am still homosexual by nature. There is nothing I can do to change the way I feel about other males. Believe me, I've tried. All I can do is become sanctified, which is just another way of saying I'm now one of those who obey God's Laws.

If you feel that homosexuality is something that "develops" as a result of something going wrong with one's sexual development, I would urge you to re-evaluate your feelings. I believe that each and every one of us has within the potential to disobey God in some way, a potential that can be drawn out by the Opposer and used against us.

For some, this potential exists in the form of alcoholism. Alcoholics will tell you the same thing I am telling you now, there is no such thing as a cured alcoholic. There is only such a thing as an alcoholic who choses never again to drink alcohol.

And it is the same for me. I am a homosexual who chooses never again to fornicate.

Peace through love and understanding :wave:


Well if you want to be, thats your decision, I was as gay as you can get,for over 30yrs and every waking thought was gay, and all the memories of sexual encounters ran through my mind like a continous loop, my mind was bombarded by homosexual thoughts day in and day out, so nobody needs to tell me how much it feels like its impossible to change the way I thought, It was my orientation Gay gay gay!

Oh and by the way I was also an alcoholic to the extreme measure of the addiction. but then God reached out to me and offered me salvation through His Son Jesus, and I repented of my sin's and felt all my sin's removed, in fact what was so incrediable about my experience was I never craved another drink of alcohol, and never took one either since 1996,

while I was trying to live a life pleasing to God, I too decided to simply quit homosexuality, yet everyday I burned with lust, and I don't want to go into graffic details but it seemed I was powerless to resist letting daydreams and fantasies playout in my mind, and I would fulfill them in other ways while masturbating, I was still very much a homosexual.......and I prayed and cried and prayed and cried, and it was like God couldn't hear me.

then one day I was reading my bible and I came across a scripture in Romans, where it implied that homosexuality was a delusion, that God gave men over to who rejected the truth and traded it for a lie, making it clear that the whole homosexual delusion was simply a deception a lie! much like anorexia deceives the minds of its victims into believing their fat.

anyway there was another verse, that made the whole thing possible. it was "holding every thought in obedience to Christ". I hadn't been doing that!....I had allowed myself to think about what ever I wanted.

long story short I started rebuking homosexual thoughts, even out loud if I were alone, and started rebuking them as a lie and a deception, at first it was relentless, and it didn't seem to be doing any good, because they just kept coming, but I pressed on not giving up!, if the bible says its a deception then I kept believing it was,

Over time and many failures. I soon found somthing was changing, I would cast out any sexual thought before it had a chance to even play out in my mind, and soon I had the ability to not touch, which also is a deceptive lie, which would always tell me I would feel better if I did it. and every time I would feel terrible like I failed God, and since it always was done with homosexual thoughts, I knew God seen it as a homosexual sin.

Anyway I started to make headway, and kept rebuking every and all homosexual thoughts saying "thats not who I am in Jesus name" I rebuke that thought in Jesus name" I am a new creation in Christ Jesus I rebuke that thought"

after awhile I realized the bombardment had really downsized, I had been getting better and better to filter my thoughts, I was finding somthing else very strange at the same time, girls were starting to have a strange appeal to me that I had never known, and I had began to pray that God would bring me a suitable mate, I kept this up for quite some time, and to my surprise,

my thought patterns changed, my rectum was no longer considered a sex organ (to put it bluntly) and the homosexual thoughts were far and few, mainly mostly memories of the past, and somewhat strangly foreign as if I was watching someone eles, because I had rebuked the desires also,

moving ahead I met a really hot looking woman, who once was deceived as I was, we both have been completely changed, today only once in a while will a memory rise up, and I will rebuke it simply as a past sin, I no longer lust for same sex, in fact I have found hetrosexual sex to be far more enjoyable then homosexuality ever was.

You can continue to hold onto your homosexual orientation if you want to, burning with all the thoughts and desires that never seem to go away, or you can fight to OVERCOME these sinful thoughts and attractions, and take the victory that Christ has already won. the freedom is there, all you have to do is what the anorexic needs to do, stop believing the lie, and eat.
 
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Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The kingdom of God is in the present, but few enter, for few turn as John and see Him in the midst. Jesus was the First of many brethren or mothers, brothers , sisters.

The Kingdom Of God is indeed within, but it cannot be built there until one becomes sanctified. Matthew 15:19 tells us:

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

The way I see it then, lawlessness is within everybody's heart. In order for us to become sanctified (law-abiding), we have to evict lawlessness from the heart. But how can we do that? According to Jeremiah 17:9 not one of us is able to do that.

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

The only One who can understand the heart is God, as we are told in Matthew 22:37:

Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart..."

To love the Lord your God with all your heart there can be no lawlessness in there at all. It must be evicted, and replaced with nothing but God's Law. God's Law is Jesus. This is why we are invited to let Jesus in as instructed in Revelations 3:20:

Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my Voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me.

This door Jesus is talking about is the door to your heart. Let Him in, and he will evict the lawlessess within mentioned in Matthew 12:28 and take up residence, thereby building the Kingdom Of God within your heart as indicated in Luke 17:21.

The Kingdom Of God is love. Do you have nothing but love in your heart?

:wave:
 
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I think maybe you're into that whole ex-gay thing. Many have been where you are now, and a growing number of ex-gays are coming to the same conclusion: their denial of their innate homosexuality is what is actually the delusion, a delusion created by so many people who would have them believe that homosexuality is wrong in some way. I know from my own experience that I once struggled with this notion, that my being homosexual was wrong. But I was wrong about that. There's nothing actually wrong with homosexuality. Just as there's nothing actually wrong with imbibing alcohol. God does say though that imbibing too much alcohol is against His law, in much the same way as God says that having any homosexual relations whatsoever is against His law.

So, homosexual intercourse isn't actually wrong or evil - it's just illegal under the Law of God.
 
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JudgeDracoAmunRa you list yourself as a pantheist, yet claim to be a Christian. Pantheists do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. Are you posting in search of what to believe? It appears you seem pretty set in what you believe. I have no problem discussing the Truth with a seeking believer, but am tired of being drawn into arguments by unbelievers.

I'm a Christian Pantheist, yes. My idea of pantheism - as I've explained elsewhere - is not the typical pantheism you find everywhere else. As I've said, I believe that all religions, philosophies etc lead us to find the same One True God. I believe this One True God to be the father of Jesus.

Therefore, I am a Christian Pantheist.

And I found Jesus not by following just one kind of religion. I've studied the Bible with evangelicals, Mormons, and even Jehovah's Witnesses. I've looked at Bhudism and atheism. I've studied a little bit of theology, a little bit of philosophy. I've looked at the New Age, and shamanism. I was able to take bits and pieces from all of these ideas, and come to but one inevitable conclusion: God exists and Jesus is His son.

I've seen the truth about my kind of Pantheism, and I've seen the truth about God and Jesus.

As they say: all paths lead to Rome. :amen:
 
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It all depends on if you believe the bible is the one true word of God...

Here's something I learned from my study of Mormonism: the bible is the infallible, inerrant word of God only in so far as it has been translated correctly.
 
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cimbk

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I think maybe you're into that whole ex-gay thing. Many have been where you are now, and a growing number of ex-gays are coming to the same conclusion: their denial of their innate homosexuality is what is actually the delusion, a delusion created by so many people who would have them believe that homosexuality is wrong in some way. I know from my own experience that I once struggled with this notion, that my being homosexual was wrong. But I was wrong about that. There's nothing actually wrong with homosexuality. Just as there's nothing actually wrong with imbibing alcohol. God does say though that imbibing too much alcohol is against His law, in much the same way as God says that having any homosexual relations whatsoever is against His law.

So, homosexual intercourse isn't actually wrong or evil - it's just illegal under the Law of God.
well that isn't what the bible teaches but to each his own, I personally have never been happier in my life, there's nothing like the freedom that is in Christ Jesus, who the Son sets free is free indeed,

I don't have anything against and neither does the bible of drinking an alcoholic beverage, in fact we have both beer and wine in the refrigerator for guest if they want it, my wife likes to have a glass of wine from time to time, the freedom for me is the craving is gone, I used to jones for a drink, the thought of where I could get a drink enveloped my whole pattern of thinking, I had to drink to survive, it was like oxygen.......but when your set free and I mean true freedom in Christ, I don't even think about alcohol, It doesn't have any power what so ever.

you can believe what you want, when you read about what some ex-gays will tell you, the only thing I can tell you is the real true freedom that is in Christ Jesus, does not leave someone longing to return to their sin, wishing to have a same sex encounter, fantasizing about homosexual sex.........No thats what the bible calls "worldly repentance" and it eventually leads to death but "Godly repentance" leads to life, and there is no longer any driving force to pull someone back into the sin they are free from.

It appears your more inclined to believe what science says then what the bible says...........just remember one thing......EVERYTHING GOD DOES IS AGAINST SCIENCE!

does science say a man can be dead for three days and then brought back to life, does science say a man can walk on liquid water, does science say you could feed 5000 people with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread, does science tell you its possible to divide water into two walls so that people can cross through it

God doesn't obey any of the laws of science, He could careless what scientist say, It has no bearing what soever on what He did, does and will do..........Even the bible declares the wisdom of man is foolishness to God, If you really knew Him you would understand that to change your orientation is no more difficult then flicking a light switch, but if you don't want to turn the switch off, God is not going to force you, you're free to choose what ever you like, to live how ever you like
 
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hedrick

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God doesn't obey any of the laws of science, He could careless what scientist say, It has no bearing what soever on what He did, does and will do..........Even the bible declares the wisdom of man is foolishness to God, If you really knew Him you would understand that to change your orientation is no more difficult then flicking a light switch, but if you don't want to turn the switch off, God is not going to force you, you're free to choose what ever you like, to live how ever you like

God can certainly make exceptions, but this is going too far. The laws of nature are not entirely man-made. They are our observations about how nature works, and nature is God's creation. The classical view was that nature functioned regularly (which is what we need in order to have laws work) because it reflected God's rationality, and his desire to have a predictable environment in which humans could grow and function.

God can certainly decide that there are reasons for him to do something different, but if he does this all the time, the world becomes incomprehensible.
 
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cimbk

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God can certainly make exceptions, but this is going too far. The laws of nature are not entirely man-made. They are our observations about how nature works, and nature is God's creation. The classical view was that nature functioned regularly (which is what we need in order to have laws work) because it reflected God's rationality, and his desire to have a predictable environment in which humans could grow and function.

God can certainly decide that there are reasons for him to do something different, but if he does this all the time, the world becomes incomprehensible.
I've read many of your post and your statements are as misleading as the serpent in the garden. I fear most of all for folks like yourself, even more than the atheist, because your teachings lead to lawlessness, and most of 2 Peter and Jude speak directly to you, you have left sound doctrine, you turn the grace of our God into lewdness, you need to repent and change direction, return to what the bible teaches, and not your own understanding.
 
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Lindas Place

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Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


When I read these verses, I don't believe for one second that the kinds of people mentioned here are barred from the Kingdom of God. The kinds of people I believe are barred from the Kingdom of God are those who are not doing God's will - or to put it another way - those who reject God's Laws.

When we look at the list of kinds of people mentioned here, we see that they all have one thing in common: the are all breaking the Law of God. This is what wicked means to me. When people such as these become sanctified they join with Christ in serving the will of God - they become law-abiding.

To me then, those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven are the lawless one, the ones breaking God's Law.

:groupray:
1 John 3:4
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Galatians 3
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law; because, "The righteous will live by faith."

12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.;

Galatians 3:24-25
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Colossians 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
 
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cimbk

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1 John 3:4
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Galatians 3
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law; because, "The righteous will live by faith."

12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.;

Galatians 3:24-25
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Colossians 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Then Jesus said
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
then Paul said;


12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God


15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
 
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well that isn't what the bible teaches but to each his own, I personally have never been happier in my life, there's nothing like the freedom that is in Christ Jesus, who the Son sets free is free indeed,

I don't have anything against and neither does the bible of drinking an alcoholic beverage, in fact we have both beer and wine in the refrigerator for guest if they want it, my wife likes to have a glass of wine from time to time, the freedom for me is the craving is gone, I used to jones for a drink, the thought of where I could get a drink enveloped my whole pattern of thinking, I had to drink to survive, it was like oxygen.......but when your set free and I mean true freedom in Christ, I don't even think about alcohol, It doesn't have any power what so ever.

you can believe what you want, when you read about what some ex-gays will tell you, the only thing I can tell you is the real true freedom that is in Christ Jesus, does not leave someone longing to return to their sin, wishing to have a same sex encounter, fantasizing about homosexual sex.........No thats what the bible calls "worldly repentance" and it eventually leads to death but "Godly repentance" leads to life, and there is no longer any driving force to pull someone back into the sin they are free from.

It appears your more inclined to believe what science says then what the bible says...........just remember one thing......EVERYTHING GOD DOES IS AGAINST SCIENCE!

does science say a man can be dead for three days and then brought back to life, does science say a man can walk on liquid water, does science say you could feed 5000 people with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread, does science tell you its possible to divide water into two walls so that people can cross through it

God doesn't obey any of the laws of science, He could careless what scientist say, It has no bearing what soever on what He did, does and will do..........Even the bible declares the wisdom of man is foolishness to God, If you really knew Him you would understand that to change your orientation is no more difficult then flicking a light switch, but if you don't want to turn the switch off, God is not going to force you, you're free to choose what ever you like, to live how ever you like

I'm very glad to hear that you're happy with the way you are now. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the whole "is gay sex a sin" thing.

I'm not at all sure why you think I believe what science says rather than what the bible says. Could you point out to me what I've said to make you think that, because I'm unaware of it myself?

As for the examples of miracles you've given, the proper scientific view of these sorts of things is not that they cannot happen - it's that if they can happen science doesn't yet know how they can happen.

Alcoholic beverages aren't illegal under God's Law. What's illegal is drunkeness - or to put it another way (as I've said) drinking too much.

As for the idea that a switch can be flicked that changes your sexual orientation, I'll counter that argument with a very similar argument of my own: If you really knew God you would understand that to change your innate sexual orientation is impossible.

Changing your sexual behaviour is, though, quite possible. I've done it myself, so I know the truth of that. However, I know in my heart that no matter what I do I'm innately homosexual, even though in practice I have been both heterosexual and homosexual. So I guess that makes me homosexual in theory, but bisexual in practice.

I guess your entire life history shows that you're bisexual in practice too, even though you're no longer a practicing homosexual.

Anyway, God bless you.
 
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1 John 3:4
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Galatians 3
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law; because, "The righteous will live by faith."

12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.;

Galatians 3:24-25
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Colossians 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.


When it comes to scripture, the only scripture I feel I can trust to any degree is scripture recording what Jesus says. And this is what Jesus himself has to say about God's Law:

But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws. - Matthew 7:23

As for all those scriptures you've quoted, none of them was spoken by Jesus, but by other men. Jesus himself tells us we have to obey God's laws. That is what he taught us to do. Anyone doing otherwise does not love Jesus.

Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching - John 14:24

One of us is clearly mistaken. Which one of us do you really think it is?

:prayer:
 
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