1 Corinthians 11:10

[yugin]

Hi everybody,
I've posted the same question in general theology forum, but wanted to know opinion of baptists as well
So....
KJV
"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels"

NIV
"For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head"

I know, this passage is not form easy ones. I'm leaning more towards opinion that it applies to a specific situation at that time (the 1st half of this chapter).
I've heard opinion that somehow connects head covering with angels watching over person and family...
My questions. What is meant by "power" in this verse? And what angels have to do with it?
I know it's the only verse in the Bible on this matter, but still..
Sorry, if this topic came up before.
Thanks.

 

[daveleau]

This is referring to the practice regarding veils. The power is the power of man over women to make them wear veils. The part about the angels is regarding the shock that would be if God made the angels wear veils. Angels are not made to wear veils by God, so women should not be made to wear veils by men.

There's a lot of conjecture about the reference to angels that is taken out of context from this verse.

God bless,
Dave

 

[Iollain]

1Cr 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.


1Cr 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.


1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.


1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.


1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.


1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.


1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.


1Cr 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.


1Cr 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.


1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.


1Cr 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.


1Cr 11:12 For as the woman [is] of the man, even so [is] the man also by the woman; but all things of God.


1Cr 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?


1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


1Cr 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering.


1Cr 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.


I don't think these verses have anything to do with the man having power over the woman as much as what God wants us to do..........

1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

....we do not pray to our husbands, we pray to God, so i don't see this as between man and woman, but God and woman. I'm not real sure if these verses say that long hair can be a covering or not.
I don't know, i'm really wrestling with these verses right now.

I'm kind of thinking this was for the time-age, and not for today? So is it equal to modesty, or not?

I know my husband would not be seen out of the house with me if i had a head covering, not that i'd want to wear one anyways. I do have a lovely black lace shawl that i think i will use for the 'prayer closet'.

 

[Gwenyfur]

There are churches still out there in which women still cover their heads for prayer. The angels described in Isaiah have wings that cover their faces as they surround the throne of God glorifying Him.

I see nothing wrong with covering your head in prayer, after all, we bow our heads, another way of hiding our face from God....

As for women having power and leadership...I won't go there We shouldn't

 

[Ave Maria]

I find a paraphrase to be very helpful in this instance:

(NLT) 1 Corinthians 11:10 So a woman should wear a covering on her head as a sign of authority because the angels are watching.

I would say that this is just simply a cultural admonition for women to wear a head covering. It doesn't apply today because of our culture.

 

[Iollain]

I was talking to my mother-in-law yesterday and she said that up until the 60's women always had hats on in church. I have decided to wear a head covering while i pray at home because i think that is what these verses are saying,

1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man

.....this verse above does not sound like a cultural thing, man is still the image and the glory of God, women the glory of men

i don't know if i'll be coming out of the closet and covering my head at church first though.

 

[ZiSunka]

I have no clue what this means to me. I think it pertains to married women, but I am not married. If covering the head shows that a woman defers to her husband's authority, what does it mean to women that have no husband?

 

[Heatherondo]

IN the time that this was written prostitutes had shaved heads.
my understanding is that when verses refer to a womans head being covered it is meaning hair wise.

 

[Iollain]

I have no clue what this means to me. I think it pertains to married women, but I am not married. If covering the head shows that a woman defers to her husband's authority, what does it mean to women that have no husband?

THat is a good question.

 

[Iollain]

IN the time that this was written prostitutes had shaved heads.
my understanding is that when verses refer to a womans head being covered it is meaning hair wise.

Here is the NASB version:


1Cr 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
1Cr 11:2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.
1Cr 11:3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1Cr 11:4 Every man who has {something} on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head.
1Cr 11:5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.
1Cr 11:6 For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.
1Cr 11:7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
1Cr 11:8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1Cr 11:9 for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
1Cr 11:10 Therefore the woman ought to have {a symbol of} authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Cr 11:11 However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
1Cr 11:12 For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man {has his birth} through the woman; and all things originate from God.
1Cr 11:13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God {with her head} uncovered?
1Cr 11:14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
1Cr 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
1Cr 11:16 But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

I think it means an actual covering that is not hair, especially because of this verse:

1Cr 11:6 For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head

 

[Dmckay]

Actually, you got an answer from a Baptist over there in the General Theology area. I am a Conservative Baptist Pastor and since CBs consider themselves a movement and not a denomination I show up in the IDent box as a NonDenom.

The phrases "power on her head" and "because of the angels" must be explained. An important factor here is the context. Paul had been speaking of the principle of subordination, and particularly of the design and purpose of woman in creation. the first phrase would seem to refer to that to which she submits, the covering being its symbol. This might be said for example, about the soldier who wears his ruler's colors, proudly identifying with him.

It is interesting, however, that the only time the word "power" ("authority," exousian) is used in this passage, it is something which belongs to a woman. Although the context speaks of subordination, it is the woman here who has the sign of authority. The NIV tries to solve this problem by translating exousian echein epi in a passive sense (to "have authority over" [her head]); but if so, this is the only time out of 103 NT appearances that it is passive.

Others see "authority" in terms of the newfound liberty/authority that the women experienced in Christ, but this interpretation is not readily apparent in the context. Whatever "authority" means, it must be consistent with the following statement regarding "angels."

"Because of the angels" has been looked at in various ways, some of them impossible. Paul could not have meant evil angels subject to sensual temptation. Some have seen in these angels: pious men, prophets, church officers and matchmakers.

But the best explanation seems to be as follows. In 4:9 Paul mentioned angels as interested observers of Christian conduct. In 6:3 he spoke of the judgement of certain angels by the saints. Scripture is filled with the fact that angels are associated with G-d's earthly kingdom and the maintenance of creational laws and limits. It is consistent that angels are present at divine worship and are disturbed by irreverence at such worship. No unseemliness should come before them.

 

[Pilgrim and stranger]

Hi everybody,
I've posted the same question in general theology forum, but wanted to know opinion of baptists as well
So....
KJV
"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels"

NIV
"For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head"

I know, this passage is not form easy ones. I'm leaning more towards opinion that it applies to a specific situation at that time (the 1st half of this chapter).
I've heard opinion that somehow connects head covering with angels watching over person and family...
My questions. What is meant by "power" in this verse? And what angels have to do with it?
I know it's the only verse in the Bible on this matter, but still..
Sorry, if this topic came up before.
Thanks.

You need to read this verse in the context of the whole:




2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
Paul starts off with a commendation of that which is praiseworthy at the church in Corinth. He then begins to correct that which the Corinthians were doing wrong. Some commentators have argued that verses 2 to 16 belong to times past, specific to Corinth and that the modern church can ignore these instructions. Whilst conceding that these verses may never have been written if there was no conflict between different groups in the Corinthian church, it does not necessarily follow that these fourteen verses belong to the dustbins of history. Indeed it is interesting to note that: (a) Paul sides with those arguing women ought to be covered in church; (b) Paul’s argument for this position are not at all cultural, instead referring to the timeless principles of male headship, the magnification of the glory of God, and the prevention of causing offense to angels. (c) He begins these fourteen verses by praising those who keep his ordinances and ends with establishing explicitly a new one!

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Now no one will disagree with the statements that the “head of every man is Christ” and that the “head of Christ is God” . Take careful notice of the statement that “the head of the woman is the man”. From where does it come and what does this mean? Male headship goes back to Genesis 3:16 where God curses the woman saying: “You shall be eager for your husband, and he shall be your master”. This means then that the curse of the woman is that she is under the authority of men with men displaying the authority of God upon the earth. Therefore “the head of the woman is the man”. The use of Christ and God is Paul making the point that although God the Father has authority over God the Son, the two are equal in deity. Similarly man has authority over woman although they are equal in personhood.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
Why is this? Paul kindly provides us with the answer in verse 7 when he says that a man ought not to cover his head for he is the “image and glory of God”. What then does this mean? Man reflect the glory of God, he is the mirror of God’s glory and so for the man to cover his head would be to cover up the glory of God. This would then cause grave offense to God and to the angels that dwell in the churches of God.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
We have just considered why a man “praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head” and so we can use this framework to understand verse 5. If a woman was to cover her head she would be doing the right thing because “woman is the glory of the man” that is she is the mirror of man’s glory, and so in covering her head she covers up the glory of man (i.e. herself) which is as it should be. Why? Because in the church all glory should be given to God and so there should be no competing glories in the church. So if she uncovers her head, she allows her own glory to compete with God’s glory and that is as if she had short hair so allowing the glory of man to compete with the glory of God; both of which are detestable, i.e. disregarding those authorities above her.

6a For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:
This is a key verse and one can only understand it fully if one grasps the argument of verse 15. This states that, if a woman has long hair it is to her glory meaning that long hair is a good thing. Why? Well we are told that “the woman is the glory of the man” that is, she is the mirror of man’s glory, and this means that she should be covered by long hair. Therefore by not being covered with hair she is going against nature and therefore God. The long hair is the visible sign of man’s authority over her whilst the veil is the sign of God’s authority over her and so if she is not veiled then she has openly challenged the authority of God and so she may as well be shorn for one cannot recognize the authority of men is one denies the authority of God.

6b but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
The phrase “but if it be a shame” has let many to confuse the Paulian argument and the meaning of this whole passage. When Paul states ‘but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven” we know that it is indeed a disgrace because we know from verse 15 that long hair is a natural covering given to her by God and that it is to her glory to have flowing locks. This therefore means that we can read verse 6 as follows: If a woman is not to wear a veil she might as well have her hair cutoff for to wear a veil shows her submission to God’s authority whilst her long hair shows her submission to man’s authority and so to fail to wear a veil is to deny God’s authority; but if it is a disgrace for her to be cropped and shaved – which it is for her flowing locks are a gift from God and are to her glory, then she should wear a veil. But why say that if it is a shame then she should wear a veil? The answer comes about thus: If the woman recognizes that long hair is to her glory and she understands why, then she will recognize that it is a shame for her to be shorn or shaven and so she should wear a veil, that is, she will see the need for the veil!

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
Man should not cover his head because he reflects the glory of God (see verse 4) however the woman reflects the glory of man and so needs to be covered. Therefore God has provided her with long hair as we are told: “for her hair is given her for a covering”. Woman is a mirror of man’s glory, she reflects his glory - the woman is the glory of the man. A question inevitably arises: Why is she the glory of the man? The answer is that she has her origin and purpose of life in man as seen in Genesis 2:20-25 and Genesis 3:16.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
That is to say she was created from the rib of man. Her origin is of man and so she mirrors his glory whilst man is of God and so he mirrors God’s glory.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Reflecting Genesis 2:20

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Here is another of Paul’s timeless arguments! A woman should cover her head so as not to cause offense to the angels. The long hair is the visible sign of man’s authority over her whilst the veil is the sign of God’s authority over her and so to have neither or one alone is to cause offense to the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
This verse is included to ensure that verses 8 and 9 do not lead men to be proud and abuse their position of authority.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
This verse is included to ensure that verses 8 and 9 do not lead men to be proud and abuse their position of authority.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Here Paul is being rhetorical and the answer is obviously no! This can be checked by reading Paul’s argument in verses 5, 6 and 7.

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Here Paul is being rhetorical and the answer is obviously yes! This can be checked by reading Paul’s argument in verses 4 and 7.

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Here we are told that long hair is what women should have! Why? Simple: because God has ordained it thus. We are told that long hair is a naturally given covering which is a good thing. God gave women long hair to cover the glory of man, i.e. themselves, which illustrates man’s authority over her. So in keeping her hair long she shows her willing acceptance of this divinely instituted order. Hence her long hair is to her glory. Or put another way: the natural covering of flowing locks, reflects the natural authority of men over women, and women in having long hair acknowledge this and submit to this natural order of things and so long hair is to her glory for her acceptance of her submission and this is pleasing to the angels (verse 10)

If a woman has long hair it is to her glory. Why? Because her long hair is given to her for a covering. To cover what? To cover the glory of man i.e. herself. And so if a woman has long hair it is to her glory because she is covering the glory of man in the church.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
Here Paul is saying ‘I have told you why a woman must be covered in church however if you disagree then recognize that there is no need for disagreement on this issue: you should be covered up!’ Or it could refer to the occurrence of women engaging in theological arguments within the church and so Paul would be saying something similar to “If you wish to debate, we have no such practice and so remain silent as it is in the churches of God” which would seem correct in the light of 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12.

A summary of 1 Corinthians 11:2-16
It seems to me the argument of Paul can be summarized thus: whilst “women is the glory of the man” God has given her a natural covering of long hair and whilst this long hair reflects “her own glory” so her hair is to be covered up with a veil. This is because all glory is to be given to God in church. Notice that the principles behind this specific instruction - women covering their heads in worship - are timeless and so one must conclude that the specific instruction must also be timeless and so 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 cannot be tied to any specific cultural period.