1 Cor 14:22

muffler dragon said:

Thanks Todd, I appreciate the encouragement.

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Encouragement is a gift of the Holy Spirit, too! (Romans 12:8)

Symes said:

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Where is the one to interpret when one prays to God in an unknown tongue?

Tongues are a sign for unbelievers not for those who believe.


1 Corinthians 14:22

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers

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Let's look at the context of this passage and treat it as one:

1 Corinthians 14


Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[1] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.[2] 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[5] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,"[6] says the Lord.
22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[7] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand[8] comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

Orderly Worship

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.


When you read this passage straight through, you see that there is a difference between corporate and personal tongue speaking. What you keep bringing up has to do with corporate gatherings. As I have mentioned in my previous posts, tongues serve different purposes in different settings. I also have shown abundantly that there is nothing of the devil involved in this.

Hopefully this has cleared it up.

Symes said:

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Where is the one to interpret when one prays to God in an unknown tongue?

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If you read that verse in its context, you will see that Paul is refering to prophecy, not praying in the Spirit. At times, the Holy Spirit will give an individual a word for the Church that will be presented in toungues (or even in the language of the Church). The Holy Spirit will then give another individual, or even the same person who gave the utterance, the ability to interpret (translate) the message so the rest of the Church may understand what God is telling them. In both instances, these are gifts of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12:7-11).

It would appear that God lead us both to the same Scriptural references!

God is good! All the time!

Symes said:

You say at times the Holy Spirit will give a person a message in tongues.

Can you give me an example of this happening?

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I am more than happy to give you an example. But first, let us put this scenario into context.

The gift of a prophetic word is a gift - or a manifestation - of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:10b). All of the manifestations and the gifts (Romans 12:6-8) of the Holy Spirit are direct characteristics of the Almighty. He imparts His power and grace into our lives for His purposes, not ours, as He determines necessary (1 Corinthians 12:11c). Each of the Spiritual gifts are different and distinct from one another but each comes from one source - the Holy Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6). God imparts these manifestations of Himself in very orderly and proper ways (1 Corinthians 14:33). Our God is not a God of disorder, confusion, and rudeness. Those are traits of the enemy. God operates in complete order, clarity, and, if I may, a gentlemanly manner.

When God chooses to give a prophetic word, He may do so in many different settings. But for the purpose of this example, let us consider the corporate setting, during a Church service. Let us say that during the Worship portion of the service, there is a lull, for lack of a better term, between songs of praise to God, where the Body is praising God individually and corporately. During this lull, the Holy Spirit moves upon one person to give a prophetic word in toungues outloud to the Church. Now remember, God is a God of order. A true message from God will never come during a worship song or during the Pastor's sermon, but during a quiet time, or a pause, in the service. The message may be presented in tongues and then interpreted by another individual that the Holy Spirit departs the gift of interpretation, or by the individual that gave the utterance themself. In either case, there must be an interpretation for the message to be understood by the Body. God will not give a message for the Church unless He has already planned for an interpretation to be given as well. If someone felt the need to give a message but no interpration would be available, they will keep it to themselves (1 Corinthians 14:28). Once the message is given and then interpeted, it must hold up to the Word of God. It must be Scripturally valid and consistant with the will of God. As it is written in 2 Peter 1:20, 21, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." If the message came from the heart of a man or woman, it would never carry the will of God. God will never give a message that will contradict Himself as we know Him through His Word. The message itself can be any number of things. It can be God calling His people to repent of their own ways and to turn back to His ways; it can be a message of encouragement and ment to strengthen our faith and trust in Him, anything that is consistant with His Word. He won't give a message like "quit driving big cars because you're wasting gasoline" or "I want you to go out and buy all new clothes because I don't like what you're wearing." The message He gives will always parallel to His Holy Word.

I hope that this example helps you to better understand this gift of the Holy Spirit. I don't know if I have explained it completely or not. There are many examples that could be given and I would be happy to share more if needed. In any event, let us always remember that we should not seek the gifts as much as we should seek the Giver of the gifts. We must always first seek His Kingdom, and then the rest will be added to us (Matthew 6:33).

Love in Christ Jesus,

Todd

Symes said:

What does this text mean?

1 Cor 14:22

"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers."

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Check the Old Testement reference he is citing and then consider how the judgment against the scoffers of Ephiriam compares to the judgment of the Jews who rejected the Gospel went to the Gentiles. They didn't want to listen to the line on line, rule on rule...etc teaching of the prophet so God said he would talk to them in a language they would never understand. The question being addressed is the signifigance of tongues as prophecy. Paul is telling them to grow up and start thinking like mature Christians.

Symes said:

Todd

Have you been there when this has happened?

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Yes, I have been in a Church service, several actually, when God gave a prophetic word through the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The message was deemed consistant with the Word of God by our Pastor who is, thankfully, an obedient and humble servant of our LORD. I have also been in a Church service where a message was given that was not consistant with the Word of God. In that instance, the person who gave the message, which was not done in toungues (not all prophetic messages are given in toungues), was graciously and politely rebuked. Like all things, we must test the spirits to see if they come from God or from the enemy. We must always use His Holy Word as the measure of validity.

May the peace and joy of our Lord Jesus Christ bless you richly as you seek His face.

Todd

Symes said:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

This is exactly what people here do not want to do. They want to follow what they want to believe and not what is in God's Word.

Tongues are a sign for unbelievers and not for those who believe.

Prophecy are for those who believe.

There is a difference.

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I am sorry Symes, but I can't believe you say this:

This is exactly what people here do not want to do. They want to follow what they want to believe and not what is in God's Word.

I present you with a number of verses and then the entire context of a passage, and then discuss what is being said as a whole. You take one verse, out of context, and then accuse me with the above statement. That is a humongous amount of gall.

Not only is that statement humiliating, but it is completely and utterly wrong. Am I mad , yes, I am.

When you present something of sound mind instead of one sentence responses, then I will alleviate my ill and respond again. Until then, I wish you well in your lack of acceptance of what has been shown.

Beyond being obtuse, there's not a whole lot more that I can say.

I am beginning to wonder if you are simply someone who gets jollies from irritating others.

Just forget that I was ever on this thread. Forget all the evidence I have shown you. Forget all that has been said from me, period. Oops, apparently, you already have.

By the way, when I see you in heaven, don't be too surprised.