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Well, I disagree.Does the existence of the olympics now mean the Greek gods were real? Of course not.
Why are only the Norse gods real and not those of other cultures? What about the Greek and Roman gods?
Surely the fact that we name many of our days of the week after Norse gods is due to the cultural influence of the Vikings on the English language rather than the gods actually being real? The same way that the AD BC system is used in most places due to the rise of Christianity in Europe followed by Europeans colonising other parts of the world.
The ancient olympics were held in honour of Zeus. Does the existence of the olympics now mean the Greek gods were real? Of course not.
Yes, but they did it anyway.Doesn't this sort of run afoul of the first three commandments?
If you don't have a problem with the people, why do you insult them constantly for having their beliefs?Not you your beliefs, it's exactly the same problem we have with Muslims when they tell us that Mohammad flew to heaven on a winged horse.
They knew if they wanted to travel long distances they needed a horse, but they had a problem, Allah lived up in the sky so how could Mohammad travel to reach him??? of course the answer was simple, fit the horse with wings and let him fly up to heaven, the rest is history.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to this, but that didn't make any sense to me at all.I am not talking about the Bible I am talking about science. You have to be a literal - fundalmental - dispensationist to accept science. Unless you reject science. There are atheists that are so dedicated to being atheists that they reject science to maintain their atheism. Perhaps you do not understand. A dispensation is an age. For example the ice age would be a dispensation. Actually there were 6 ice ages. Science is very dispensational. Literal means you accept the artifacts and the natural evidence at its face value. You do not take a fossil and say maybe this is symbolic and maybe it means something different from what it looks to represent. I am a literal, fundamental dispensationalist for science and for religion. They all add up to God and science does not contradict religion. In fact science and religion compliment each other. If you maintain truth and integrity.
Pointing out there are flaws in their beliefs is insulting them how? if someone thinks they are Napoleon should we agree with them or should we try to explain to them that they are not? if there was only one person who believed as they do that person would be in a well padded room now, however, fear is a terrible thing and it affects us all, we just deal with it in different ways, some rationally and some irrationally.If you don't have a problem with the people, why do you insult them constantly for having their beliefs?
[God] doesnt need to prove himself because all creation declares his glory, and people should already know he exists. God only rewards those who seek him with all their heart, otherwise he wont show them anything.
For the sake of mental health. A lot of people cannot handle the idea that death is the end. I teeter on suicidal, the only thing stopping me from killing myself being the fear of oblivion, and yet it is that same fear that is the source of my depression and on and off nihilism.
There is also the undeniable fact that religion does make people come together and connect with each other, and that religious people tend to live longer than those that are not thanks to these communities and sense of belonging all social species crave. It's not the only means to that end, but that doesn't mean it isn't a valid one.
You could claim that all of that falls under "feeling good", but to me, that would simply mean that feeling good is more worthwhile a reason than the wording would imply.
Then I will explain it again. People can be literal, fundamental, dispensational when it comes to science and religion.Sorry for the delay in getting back to this, but that didn't make any sense to me at all.
So why the religious terms for scientific concepts?Then I will explain it again. People can be literal, fundamental, dispensational when it comes to science and religion.
God created Science and God gave us our Bible. There is no reason for us to reject what God says is good. There is no goodness apart from God.So why the religious terms for scientific concepts?
And why pretend to have any respect for science in the first place?
Saying that they live in a fantasy world is not pointing out the flaws in their beliefs. In fact, I don't recall you ever quoting scripture to point out its flaws.Pointing out there are flaws in their beliefs is insulting them how?
Comparing apples and oranges now, are we? Belief in a deity is not on the same level as believing oneself to be a long-dead historical figure. Also, telling them that they are illogical, and leaving it at that, would have no hope of convincing them that they were wrong. But, calmly asking for them to present evidence that they are Napoleon would make them open to discourse with you, which allows for the opportunity to later display evidence for Napoleon being dead, thus easing them out of their belief. If they don't change their mind, then they don't, but you kept the conversation civil, and they appreciate your willingness to hear them out. Sometimes, that makes someone's day. Is that not worthwhile to you?if someone thinks they are Napoleon should we agree with them or should we try to explain to them that they are not?
But that fear does not define us. A creationist is far more than a creationist, just like an atheist has much more to them than being an atheist. You judge others on a disagreement, but if you saw what you did agree on, you might realize these people aren't as irrational as you thought.if there was only one person who believed as they do that person would be in a well padded room now, however, fear is a terrible thing and it affects us all, we just deal with it in different ways, some rationally and some irrationally.
That about sums it up, although it would take significantly more evidence for me to become a creationist than for me to become a theist, and I am seeking the latter, not the former. The former is an unlikely consequence of, hopefully, attaining the latter.It sounds to me Sarah that you wish you could believe like they do but your brain won't let you.
It is insulting. Unnecessarily and unhelpfully insulting. But, as I recognize myself as weak for not being able to handle my own perceptions of reality, I'm not going to try to say you are wrong, as I don't think you are. I can't force myself to accept death any more than I can force myself to be a theist. I imagine that a theist of the type I want to be can't force themselves to be an atheist either.I would rather deal with reality than live in a world where I needed an imaginary friend to help me live my life, you may think that's insulting but I think I'm just saying it like it is, which is after all only my opinion because as everyone knows religions can't all be right but they can all be wrong.
I read your post and I gathered from it that you think religious people are people to be pitied and pandered to because they can not help themselves, you think they have problems and the last thing you think I should be doing is pointing out the fact that they have problems, perhaps you're right in a sense but I would prefer to come at it from a different angle, before a problem can be addressed if must first be recognise as being a problem and if no one tells them they have a problem they will be unaware that there is even a problem.Saying that they live in a fantasy world is not pointing out the flaws in their beliefs. In fact, I don't recall you ever quoting scripture to point out its flaws.
Comparing apples and oranges now, are we? Belief in a deity is not on the same level as believing oneself to be a long-dead historical figure. Also, telling them that they are illogical, and leaving it at that, would have no hope of convincing them that they were wrong. But, calmly asking for them to present evidence that they are Napoleon would make them open to discourse with you, which allows for the opportunity to later display evidence for Napoleon being dead, thus easing them out of their belief. If they don't change their mind, then they don't, but you kept the conversation civil, and they appreciate your willingness to hear them out. Sometimes, that makes someone's day. Is that not worthwhile to you?
But that fear does not define us. A creationist is far more than a creationist, just like an atheist has much more to them than being an atheist. You judge others on a disagreement, but if you saw what you did agree on, you might realize these people aren't as irrational as you thought.
That about sums it up, although it would take significantly more evidence for me to become a creationist than for me to become a theist, and I am seeking the latter, not the former. The former is an unlikely consequence of, hopefully, attaining the latter.
It is insulting. Unnecessarily and unhelpfully insulting. But, as I recognize myself as weak for not being able to handle my own perceptions of reality, I'm not going to try to say you are wrong, as I don't think you are. I can't force myself to accept death any more than I can force myself to be a theist. I imagine that a theist of the type I want to be can't force themselves to be an atheist either.
But, none of this is new, so you risked insulting me for nothing, just like the many theists you have insulted. Heck, you could have said how you cope with it, at the very least, to try to be helpful, rather than saying something that amounts to "I'm glad I'm a stronger person than her, because her emotional situation must suck".
If that's the case, then you already have an imaginary friend.I would rather deal with reality than live in a world where I needed an imaginary friend to help me live my life,
Perhaps it is the only friend a lot of people have......If that's the case, then you already have an imaginary friend.
You can find him in the mirror.
How patronizing do you think I am of religious people?! I am asking you to treat your fellow adults like adults rather than children because of some points of contention. Your lack of respect towards people is uncalled for; even though you have low opinions of theists, you don't have to be a jerk and express it constantly. It's bullying people for having faith, and that makes you no better than the people that bully us for not having faith. I am not asking you to give their position special consideration, but demanding, yes, DEMANDING that you provide evidence and reason behind your disagreement rather than repeatedly give posts that amount to "y'all are dumb for being believers and I am totes superior to you for not being a religious sheep".I read your post and I gathered from it that you think religious people are people to be pitied and pandered to because they can not help themselves, you think they have problems and the last thing you think I should be doing is pointing out the fact that they have problems, perhaps you're right in a sense but I would prefer to come at it from a different angle, before a problem can be addressed if must first be recognise as being a problem and if no one tells them they have a problem they will be unaware that there is even a problem.
I have anxiety related to autism. I can only not feel worried when I am asleep. Situation is irrelevant. In fact, my baseline levels of stress are so high, that I actually handle high stress situations better than most people, because I've had to adapt to extreme stress my whole life. Also, all of what we are is in our heads. More specifically, our brains. It's an irrelevant detail to bring up.We can agree that both their problems and ours are completely imaginary, all of our cares and worries are all in our heads, if we tried to survive in the wilderness for a month with just a gun a tent and a first aid kit we would come back without a care in the world (that's if we did come back) and we would realise just how little we have to worry about.
Wow, a Mark Twain quote that actually makes not one lick of sense for the context of when he was alive. Never thought I would see a day when his wisdom had as much meaning to me as a random string of words. It assumes that the state prior to being born is the same as after we die in terms of how fear inducing it is. It isn't. Prior to being born, I had never existed, but after I die, I will have previously existed and thus found reason to fear not existing. They may, in fact, end up being equivalent in terms of existence, but they are not equally terrifying.You worrying about oblivion reminds me of what Mark Twain had to say about it, he said: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
Maybe we will, maybe we won't. Only the dead have experienced it, and it's not like we can ask them. Death is one big question mark, which is part of why it is so ominous.Some people have this strange idea that they will somehow know that they are dead, they won't.
How on Earth would that thought make you fear death less? Also, who knows, humans might go extinct before tens of billions of them die after me.When the brain is starved of oxygen it shuts down and all mental activity ceases, from that point all that we are will cease to exist, it has happened to tens of billions before us and will happen to tens of billions after us and it's no big deal.
What does this have to do with your conduct towards other people on here? Absolutely nothing. I am already an atheist, and a seeker no less. The last thing I want is atheism promotion. Forbid I fall back into my brief nihilism phase *shudder*. Why would you do this to a person IN MENTAL ANGUISH from their theological perspective? It's like trying to shove a scone into the mouth of a diabetic person; I don't want it, and it's obviously not good for me. It might be fine for others, but I think I have expressed my pain enough for you to understand that this wouldn't help me.Death is the result of life, without life there can be no death, without theism there can be no atheism.
What you are seeking is something you can not find or have, the knowledge of what happens after you die, all you will find is wild guesses and old stories.What does this have to do with your conduct towards other people on here? Absolutely nothing. I am already an atheist, and a seeker no less.
Probably, but you are not helping. It's not like I am so obsessed with it that I can't function, so why try to discourage me? Furthermore, why did you only address such a small amount of my post, and the most trivial part of it at that?What you are seeking is something you can not find or have, the knowledge of what happens after you die, all you will find is wild guesses and old stories.
-_- I would think that if humans have an afterlife, then likely all living things do. The concept itself is irrelevant as to whether or not it applies to reality. There was a time before anything conceived of the idea of atoms, but atoms existed still long before that point. An orangutan may have no concept of an afterlife (although, they are so smart, that they actually could pick that up from people), but that says nothing about how valid or invalid the idea of an afterlife is. And it also has nothing to do with your conduct towards others, stop dodging my points on that matter.Apparently a fully grown Orangutan has a mental age of a three year old child, does it have an after life? no because it can not imagine one, if it could then like us it would.
You ask an irrelevant question, because you are still bullying people.You said in your post that I was bullying people for having faith, I would like to ask you what is faith?
And periods are your friends, and I recommend that you use them more often. I find it odd that you think I disagree with your points entirely. It's your delivery of them that irks me and other people. It's like watching someone hammer in a nail with a screwdriver. Obviously, my problem with that wouldn't be the fact that the person is trying to hammer in a nail, but the fact that they are using a screwdriver to do it.as an atheist you should know that faith is gullibility and faith is only used when there is no evidence to support what people want to believe
Wow, I never thought I would have to explain to a nontheist that beliefs are not a fully conscious choice, but are subject to our perceptions and experiences. A believer can't just choose not to believe any more than I can force myself to believe, for the very fact that belief is not highly subject to personal desire. I think a lot of atheists overestimate how accepting Christians are that, if their beliefs are true, that the majority of humanity is burning in hell. They don't want that to be the case, but they believe it is so, so they cope as best as they can. Additionally, you consistently fail to present evidence for your own claims, so not only are your posts the equivalent of those of people that make empty faith claims, but they are actually worse in that you could present evidence, and yet you choose not to in favor of bullying.so yes you are right because I do mock faith, why would anyone want to believe something for which there was no evidence and then to be selective about what it is they want to believe
They weren't indoctrinated into it. How logical their beliefs are or not to you is irrelevant to debate conduct. There are plenty of ideas I have seen tossed around that seem pretty idiotic to me, but I don't go off and say that and leave it at that. Instead, I actually debate people. I treat them as people., they don't believe any of the other no evidence backed claims made by other religions, why?
And most adults know better than to waste their time bullying other adults online and developing a superiority complex for it. Honestly, if you think you are behaving more appropriately than me, then you are more delusional than a person that honestly believed that the universe was tooted out of a cosmic tea kettle.they want to believe this, this and this, but they don't want to believe this, this and that, it's ridiculous in the extreme, most 15 year olds know better than to think like that.
The Cadet said: ↑
Doesn't this sort of run afoul of the first three commandments?
That is true.Yes, but they did it anyway.
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