‘ Benedict trusted Francis. But he was bitterly disappointed,’ biographer says in new interview

chevyontheriver

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No, that is your own conscience speaking to you.
Um ... no. That's your imagination.

I'm not wastecanning things that cardinal Ladaria confirmed two short years ago with the signature of pope Francis. I'm not having to re-educate myself on the meaning of 'couple' so as to allow blessing of the unblessable.
 
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zippy2006

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Um ... no. That's your imagination.

I'm not wastecanning things that cardinal Ladaria confirmed two short years ago with the signature of pope Francis. I'm not having to re-educate myself on the meaning of 'couple' so as to allow blessing of the unblessable.
These abuses of power lead to intellectual dishonesty among Catholics who feel themselves bound to defend them by trying to draw square circles. The abuses therefore have an especially bad effect on theological discourse and ecclesial coherence. Many feel forced to choose between being a "good Catholic" and being intellectually honest. It is an unfortunate situation.
 
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chevyontheriver

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These abuses of power lead to intellectual dishonesty among Catholics who feel themselves bound to defend them by trying to draw square circles.
I don't think that all of them are intellectually dishonest. Some are. Some are quite clever about it. But then some good people just can't believe that the Vatican could go so far off the rails. They can't see the Vatican going off the rails. So for them FS just HAS TO BE orthodox. No matter what. They can only read it that way. And of course FS did say some orthodox things before they innovated some impossible false things. So these people latch on to those things and don't read further the document for content to see that it's not really orthodox. Or they talk themselves into fun with words to convince themselves that blessing couples has nothing to do with blessing unions. Or how inventing non-liturgical blessings makes a lick of sense.

I think it's that you can't see what you can't first believe is true. That's sad.
The abuses therefore have an especially bad effect on theological discourse and ecclesial coherence.
The Orthodox, the evangelicals, the Muslims all see this as an epic failure. And within the Church resistance to this is snowballing. Pope Francis has a window of opportunity to dismiss cardinal Fernandez and withdraw FS for further study and correction. I think instead he will double down. And thus we have incoherence and damage to Catholic witness.
Many feel forced to choose between being a "good Catholic" and being intellectually honest. It is an unfortunate situation.
It's intellectual suicide. It's also a suicide of faith. As if Fides et Ratio do not belong together any more.
 
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IcyChain

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Um ... no. That's your imagination.

I'm not wastecanning things that cardinal Ladaria confirmed two short years ago with the signature of pope Francis. I'm not having to re-educate myself on the meaning of 'couple' so as to allow blessing of the unblessable.
Your conscience is captive to the Word of God.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Your conscience is captive to the Word of God.
What would you know about my conscience and whether it is troubled or not? You tell me I am a bad Catholic and then you tell me it's really my conscience that is bothering me. What I have seen from you is a crazy attempt at explaining how the blessing of couples is not a blessing of their union. I haven't seen you defending the publishing history of cardinal Fernandez yet but I expect you are ready to do that.
 
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IcyChain

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What would you know about my conscience and whether it is troubled or not? You tell me I am a bad Catholic and then you tell me it's really my conscience that is bothering me.
I never told you that you were a "bad Catholic". I told you that you some of your beliefs were incorrect, just as you told me that I am incorrect. You "being a bad Catholic" is entirely in your own head.
What I have seen from you is a crazy attempt at explaining how the blessing of couples is not a blessing of their union.
No, what you have seen from me is a correct reading of the document, which many "crazy" bishops and priests all over the planet Earth have also been able to do.
I haven't seen you defending the publishing history of cardinal Fernandez yet but I expect you are ready to do that.
I have not read the document. If you take issue with it, feel free to do so. It is irrelevant to me because I am not bound by it.
 
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zippy2006

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I never told you that you were a "bad Catholic". I told you that you some of your beliefs were incorrect, just as you told me that I am incorrect. You "being a bad Catholic" is entirely in your own head.
To say, "that is your conscience speaking to you," is an indirect way of accusing someone of being a bad Catholic. It's this idea that, "I'm not accusing you of being a bad Catholic, your conscience is." :sigh:
 
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IcyChain

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To say, "that is your conscience speaking to you," is an indirect way of accusing someone of being a bad Catholic. It's this idea that, "I'm not accusing you of being a bad Catholic, your conscience is." :sigh:
No, "that is your conscience speaking to you" is an indication that I have not accused him of being a bad Catholic, but the issue must be in his own mind because he feels accused of it. :sigh:
 
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zippy2006

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No, "that is your conscience speaking to you" is an indication that I have not accused him of being a bad Catholic, but the issue must be in his own mind because he feels accused of it. :sigh:
Oh dear. You are the one who made it personal in the first place. See:

You have made the argument that not to accept Fiducia Supplicans is to be a bad Catholic.
No, that is your own conscience speaking to you.
Your conscience is captive to the Word of God.
 
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IcyChain

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Oh dear. You are the one who made it personal in the first place. See:

No, "that is your conscience speaking to you" is an indication that I have not accused him of being a bad Catholic, but the issue must be in his own mind because he feels accused of it. :sigh:
 
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Chrystal-J

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Yikes. Is this guy for real? Hopefully he's just a teenager who will grow out of it.
I have it down to either a bot or someone sent by the Vatican to try to convince us all that same sex blessings are great. :rolleyes:
 
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chevyontheriver

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I have it down to either a bot or someone sent by the Vatican to try to convince us all that same sex blessings are great. :rolleyes:
My question about being a bot or not was not to call anyone a bot but to ask how I would know, given reference to ChatGPT, that I was not getting a ChatGPT answer. No more than that.

As to someone sent by the Vatican, I'm afraid we are not that important.
 
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Wolseley

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Pope Francis has a window of opportunity to dismiss cardinal Fernandez and withdraw FS for further study and correction. I think instead he will double down.
And as it turns out, chevy, you were absolutely right:

article said:

Pope defends same-sex blessings declaration, says it is misunderstood​


ROME (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Sunday defended a landmark decision approving blessings for same-sex couples, suggesting that those in the Catholic Church who have resisted it have jumped to "ugly conclusions" because they do not understand it.

 
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