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I think it's funny that you haven't used and scripture...

How was it not their destiny? Show me in the text itself.

9:1-5 Paul wishes that he could take the place of unregenerate Israelites to whom belong the benefits of election. 9:6-8 Paul speaks that not all ethnic Israelites are actually part of the elect. 9:9-13 Paul uses Jacob and Esau as an illustration of election. They had not done anything good...

Romans 9 teaches that God has sovereign, free choice.

What was your meaning of those verses in Peter, Ian?

Ben, who's faith is it?

Gentiles proselytes...Gentiles may have tried to follow the Law...circumcision...

I like to think that Calvinists and Progressive Dispys are compatible, but I'm not so sure...

I am an elder, and I think that the offices of church government are to be held in the highest regard and also should be the most disciplined. I don't think I would use the word, "higher standard", but maybe more responsible.

I don't think they are consistent in their theology. You can't be a dispensationalist and be a Calvinist.

Not to get too off track, but the promises fulfilled are fulfille in Christ, and now he is reigning in a non-literal 1000 years. That's the premise of Amillenialism. We interpret the OT by the new found light of the NT and find that the promises made to Israel are fulfilled in Jesus.

"If I am following what you think is supposed to be Christianity, then you are doing exactly the same thing." - great quote

maybe the Spirit is audible.

anthropocentricity....

Matthew 13:9 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” Matthew 13:23 "As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.” Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43 I...

"Seeking God" through Law is seeking man-made salvation, and in turn, not seeking God...

Romans 9:30 Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; Van: doesn't this imply that Gentiles did not pursue / seek God (righteousness)? The contrast of law and faith is what is the main topic of this passage, not unregenerates...

I'm not sure that is what Cyg is saying...

the word pnuema could mean spirit instead of wind. this same word is used in reference to the Holy Spirit. So could this not be an analogy, but a statment?

We have faith because it was given to us. Faith is a gift, not an act. This is Scripture. Call it what you want: Calvinism, Vanism, Brittism....