Creationist flood challenge

Alessandro said:

As surprising as it may sound, all what you have written in response confirms it even more to me. You are actually helping me better understand the evidence at hand to my advantage. Which confirms it even more.

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All it does in confirm that you are not capable of logical thought about this matter. If the worldwide flood is not a myth creationist should be able to do the following things that they simply can't do,.

Tell us where the flood starts and stops (the point of this thread)

Explain how animal tracks and nests are found in supposed flood deposits that sit on top of thousands of feet of other supposed flood deposits.

Explain the presence of animals that clearly grew in their burrows in flood deposits that sit on top of thousands of feet of other supposed flood deposits.

Explain the how the world's biogeography arose after all the aminals came off the ark together in the Middle East.

Explain how fossil soils, desert deposits and massive deposits of evaporated salts formed during a flood that covered the entire earth for a year.

Explain why many unclean animals have far more genetic diversity than humans even though humans were in higher numbers on the ark.

Explain how ground dwelling insects such as Cicads that only live on the roots of living trees and live in the ground many years survived the flood.

Explain how animals that only live in mature trees survived in a flood devastated world.

Explain how predators surived without killing off all prey species with such an unworkable predator prey ratio post ark.

Explain how those organism that got buried deeper in the fossil record just happened to all become extinct right away after they got off the ark.

Explain how a worldwide flood deposited the fossil record.

That's a few of the things that young earth creationists can't explain because the worldwide flood is a myth.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

I agree, maybe not an atheist troll, but definatly a troll.

The fact that a majority of his posts are completly pointless one liners, seems to suggest it.

I get the feeling he is just going to be ignored pretty soon.

Suit yourselves No problems here.

Alessandro said:

Suit yourselves No problems here.

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Your only problem is in trying to answer the question of this thread or respond to any of the other falsifications of the myth of the worldwide flood that are posted here.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

Alessandro said:

I see what has been posted on this subject as confirmation, you see it as opposing.

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How do the following FACTS regarding the earth posted on this subject confirm your position?:

1. There is not nearly enough water on earth to flood it as per a literal interpretation of the Bible.

2. There are literally hundreds of features in the geologic record that indicate periods of HIATUSES in deposition and EXPOSURE to the elements for weathering to occur.

3. The geologic record is comprised of a wide variety of materials stratified with respect to the organisms fossilized within (and in accordance with evolutionary biology) and with respect to different depositional environments.

4. The geologic record was not deposited entirely by water.

5. The strata of the geologic record deposited by water are not entirely comprised of strata resulting from material "pushed" by water as there are features precipitated from seawater (not possible in your model).


So either you aren't reading what we are typing or you are just deliberately denying it. What has been posted DOES NOT and CANNOT support your view.

Not the way I see it.

Alessandro said:

Not the way I see it.

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FACTS that make "the way" you "see it" irrelevant:

1. There is not enough water on earth for the flood you claim occurred.

2. The geologic record contains indisputable evidence of hiatuses in deposition and exposure; not succession.

3. The geologic record was not entirely deposited by water, and those strata deposited by water were not all deposited as you claim.

Those are facts. You are wrong. Now deal with it, or explain why there isn't enough water on earth, why the geologic record does not support your claims, and most importantly why you cannot simply answer the initial question:

Which strata are representative of pre-, syn-, and post-flooding?

If you can't answer that question or address the facts such as that there is not enough water for this event in the first place, you might as well not bother to respond.

You have provided zero evidence for those sources nor have you provided any reason why that would be enough water for such an event.

Even if there was enough water, where did it go because it isn't still here?

Well, as the new ocean floors cooled, they would have become denser and sunk, allowing water to flow off the continents. Movement of the water off the continents and into the oceans would have weighed down the ocean floor and lightened the continents, resulting in the further sinking of the ocean floor, as well as upward movement of the continents.The deepening of the ocean basins and the rising of the continents would have resulted in more water running off the land.

The geological principle involved is isostasy as you know, where the plates are floating on the mantle. The ocean basins are composed of denser rock than the continents, so the ocean basins sit lower in the mantle than the less dense continents with their mountains. Quite simple.

Do you know how much water there is in the world?


That was very funny though.

Glad you liked it

Alessandro said:

Well, as the new ocean floors cooled, they would have become denser and sunk, allowing water to flow off the continents.

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We have multiple lines of evidence indicating that the current ocean basins are as old as ~180 million years. You would also need to use a cooling model (and source for the material) that would not violate the laws of physics and explain why the sediments on the ocean floor are so thick and why those multiple lines of evidence on the age of the ocean are somehow invalid.

Movement of the water off the continents and into the oceans would have weighed down the ocean floor and lightened the continents, resulting in the further sinking of the ocean floor, as well as upward movement of the continents. The deepening of the ocean basins and the rising of the continents would have resulted in more water running off the land.

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Not really. Considering the density of water is ~1 g/cc and the density of the crust is ~2.8 g/cc and the density of the viscous upper mantle is ~3.3 g/cc, adding water that reaches a max. depth of ~5 km in some cases onto crust that is about twice that thickness will have a negligable isostatic effect relative to what is required for your model.

What you really need is for the ocean basins to be at sea level (yet they wouldn't be basaltic) and then to melt (which would release a great deal of heat) and then cool (a time-consuming process for 2/3 of the earth's crust that covers the oceans) and somehow leave zero evidence and not melt the continents. In other words, it is physically impossible, and you have zero evidence to support your assertions.

Most importantly: we know that the oceanic crust CANNOT be only a few thousand years old, so you are wrong.

The geological principle involved is isostasy as you know, where the plates are floating on the mantle. The ocean basins are composed of denser rock than the continents, so the ocean basins sit lower in the mantle than the less dense continents with their mountains. Quite simple.

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Exactly: it has nothing to do with water. It has to do with the types of rocks that comprise the crust. Basalt is more dense, and thus sinks lower into the mantle to preserve isostatic equilibrium. That's why the water on earth collects in the ocean basins. The water is not the principal reason why the oceans are deep. You've just refuted yourself.

Moreover, you've provided zero evidence for any of what you are saying much less any evidence that there is enough water on earth for this event or any evidence at all for such catastrophic tectonism that would leave very distinguishable evidence.

I am going to respond to these for the sake of humor, as it is needed in this thread.

Frumious Bandersnatch said:

Tell us where the flood starts and stops (the point of this thread)

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It starts right after Noah loads every animal onto the ark. It ended when Noah got claustrophobic.

Explain how animal tracks and nests are found in supposed flood deposits that sit on top of thousands of feet of other supposed flood deposits.

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You see, animals were actually great at physically manipulating strata. They made those tracks and nests after the strata were settled down.

Explain the presence of animals that clearly grew in their burrows in flood deposits that sit on top of thousands of feet of other supposed flood deposits.

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see above

Explain the how the world's biogeography arose after all the aminals came off the ark together in the Middle East.

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Animals were also great jumpers, they could jump for three days at a time. During those three days that all the animals were up in the air, everything happened.

Explain how fossil soils, desert deposits and massive deposits of evaporated salts formed during a flood that covered the entire earth for a year.

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Animals manipulated them because they wanted to have fun.

Explain why many unclean animals have far more genetic diversity than humans even though humans were in higher numbers on the ark.

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These were imported directly from Eden.

Explain how ground dwelling insects such as Cicads that only live on the roots of living trees and live in the ground many years survived the flood.

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Noah's Ark was made of only root wood.

Explain how animals that only live in mature trees survived in a flood devastated world.

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There was a tree-dwelling section of the ark.

Explain how predators surived without killing off all prey species with such an unworkable predator prey ratio post ark.

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You think you're so special just cause you've got science, you atehist.

Explain how those organism that got buried deeper in the fossil record just happened to all become extinct right away after they got off the ark.

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The three-day biogeography incident started right after the ark landed. Those animals you refer to didn't jump.

Explain how a worldwide flood deposited the fossil record.

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Animals moved to where they wanted to be when they ran out of breath.

That's a few of the things that young earth creationists can't explain because the worldwide flood is a myth.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

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Note that I am an atheist and an evolutionist. I misspelled atheist on purpose somewhere above to make the illusion that I was a YEC theist.

Melange_Thief,

The really sad thing is that most of your satirical "explanations" are no more nonsensical than those we typically see from YECs.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

um wow- i was going to reply, since i got a flood of e-mails last night with all of your kind, warm replies. I am rather surprised. I am very new here and am hoping to make some Christian friends who believe the Bible 100% like I do.
To start out- I am just a Christian teenager trying to serve the Lord with all of my heart. I will try to answer some of the questions. I don't have time for all right now b/c I have to prepare for a funeral but I will finish the others later when I return.
OK- To start- There is enough water to cover the entire earth. People often argue "well there isn't enough water to cover Mt. Everest or the highest mountains." Well, that is because they were not there. Before the flood there were small hills and valleys, but the flood changed this. If you flattened the earth's surface right now and covered it with the water that is in our oceans/lakes etc. it would cover everything. Psalm 104:6-8 sates this. Read your Bible and you will see that the waters covered the small mountains, God rebuked them and they fled, the mountains rose up and the valleys sank down, and God made a boundary so they will never cover the earth again.
That's all i have time for right now, i apologize. I have to go. God Bless all of you!

oh yeah- i forgot to say check out christiananswers.net
answersingenesis.org
there are tons of others and those are the best so far that i have found! God Bless,