Biblical Family Planning and Ministry

Why would anyone who reads the Bible and takes it seriously want to not have children?

hmmm.

The same reason, perhaps, that they take the Bible seriously but don't want to get married? If you think of it it's kind of the same command in question here. Personally I don't take the "be fruitful and multiply" as a command but a blessing, and at that, for humanity as a whole. But I digress.

I take "be fruitful and multiply" as a command to the human race. One which I have to say we've carried out. It is important not to take the law too far as the pharisees did and add to it. When do we as a human race consider ourselves to have completed "be fruitful and multiply"?

Thanks Matt,

Yes, I am aware of the risks, and I have tried ALL kinds of natural planning for my 'friend', unfortunately nothing works. Thanks though

I am a nurse, and don't usually go along with some medication just because 'doctor prescribed it'. I've read many MANY texts and journal articles (not funded by any particular health care system/pharmacology group, in case you were wondering), and there is no evidence to support the thought that continual use of the pill causes extreme sterility. There is a VERY high percentage of people who have used the pill for 2-3 years continually (without the sugar pills to cause the 'period'), and have fallen pregnant within 6 months of ceasing the pill. Those who haven't fallen pregnant in that time, have been found to have other pre-existing conditions such as endometriosis, PCOS, etc.

I do know the side effects of the pill though, and if I had any sign of them - it would cause me to stop it. Fortunately I have not experienced any of them. My ex-fiance was very relieved at this, cos he was sure I'd end up very depressed, but my personality didn't change at all! Still the happy, exuberant person I normally am. Same as migraines and high BP - haven't had a problem with either of them.

My now-bf and I have discussed BC if we were to get married, and are both happy for me to continue with the pill, until we choose to have children. I don't think I'd go back on the pill after kids, and that would be when I would utilise other forms.

Thanks for the suggestions though, appreciated!

Sasch

desi said:

Why would anyone who reads the Bible and takes it seriously want to not have children?

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I don't like children. I don't enjoy being around them, and if I were to have them at this point in my life, I think I would be a bad mother. I take my personal convictions seriously, and I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says you HAVE to have kids.

happymomof3 said:

I believe that God made our bodies to function in a certain way. Interfering with our hormones and ovulation and barriers is interfering with how we were created. I know that you could say that a lot of medical surgury and medicines also interfere (and I don't think that that is wrong, in fact I think it's great!)

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I do not understand why some forms of interference with how we are created is OK, but interference with our bodies for birth control is wrong. How are we to determine when interference is right and when it's wrong? And how is NFP any less interference than, say, the barrier method?

I am a nurse, and don't usually go along with some medication just because 'doctor prescribed it'. I've read many MANY texts and journal articles (not funded by any particular health care system/pharmacology group, in case you were wondering), and there is no evidence to support the thought that continual use of the pill causes extreme sterility. There is a VERY high percentage of people who have used the pill for 2-3 years continually (without the sugar pills to cause the 'period'), and have fallen pregnant within 6 months of ceasing the pill. Those who haven't fallen pregnant in that time, have been found to have other pre-existing conditions such as endometriosis, PCOS, etc.

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Amen! I was on the Pill for 12 years and went off of it a year and a half ago. I'm one who was diagnosed with PCOS when things got irregular. What the Pill did was hide the symptoms, not cause them. Friends of mine who were on the Pill as long as I was, got pregnant not long afterwards without any problems. I can still get pregnant, there's just the possibility that I'll need a little help in knowing when I can, is all.

Also, in responding to Island Breeze: At 22, I didn't like kids much either and had nowhere the maturity needed to be a parent at that time. I find it interesting that the same people who think that you and I should go forth and procreate, are the same people who have little patience for welfare moms who keep having children for increased checks from the government. We're the ones who are selfish?

Well Matt, I personally have never heard of NFP before this thread. I think that it is a great method. However, I don't feel that it is a requirement by God to practice this method. I know that is not what you have said, but I feel that it was stongly implied. (I hope I'm not sounding rude.) If God has put a conviction on your heart to practice NFP, then by all means you must follow that conviction.

I guess the way I see this is that I have three kids. None of them were planned, and all of them were conceived on birth control. So, if God wants you to have more children, whether you are using birth control or not, you will still have more children. Thanks for your time.

Joel

IslandBreeze said:

I don't like children. I don't enjoy being around them, and if I were to have them at this point in my life, I think I would be a bad mother. I take my personal convictions seriously, and I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says you HAVE to have kids.

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Good reason not to have them IslandBreeze, of course you don't HAVE to have kids. I was reading Psalms the other day where it speaks of children as sharp arrows to protect us from our enemies. There are other verses which encourage having children as well. It just seems society has shifted to not wanting many children, my wife has even felt some heat for having our 6 children.

desi said:

It just seems society has shifted to not wanting many children, my wife has even felt some heat for having our 6 children.

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Just because one doesn't want children, or many children, doesn't mean that they have anything against someone else who has a lot of children. If you and your wife want that, and can handle that, then knock yourself out (or her up - sorry, bad pun). Your wife isn't crazy, she's just gifted in areas that most of us aren't. I admire that. You just can't turn around and say that if she can do it, then the rest of us can too. Anything is possible with God - God might be saying that Island Breese isn't meant to have children and that I'm only meant to have an even number so no one is left out at Six Flags.

happymomof3 said:

If you have the option of doing NFP which doesn't change anything (A womans body or hormones or the intimacy that a man and woman share by touching), why not do it?

One other thing. I was always ashamed (back when we used condoms) when he put it on and when he took it off. It soured the whole experience. Now we feel nothing to be ashamed about before or after. I believe that was my conscience speaking to me.

I hope I have explained myself well. I tried, but I'm not a great debater.

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Thanks for your response Happy Mom. I think that if you had feelings of shame using condoms than you are definetely doing to right thing by using NFP. However, what about those of us who are fine with barriers? What about those of us who would rather enjoy physical intimacy with a condom than abstain for ten days or so? I have a short luteal phase - about ten days. Add the couple days after menstruation and we have less than two weeks a cycle where we are "safe." Add to that the evenings one of us isn't home until late, or one of us is too tired or whatever, and you can cut that number in half. That just wouldn't work for us at this time in our life. We are really happy with FAM.

Flipper said:

Also, in responding to Island Breeze: At 22, I didn't like kids much either and had nowhere the maturity needed to be a parent at that time. I find it interesting that the same people who think that you and I should go forth and procreate, are the same people who have little patience for welfare moms who keep having children for increased checks from the government. We're the ones who are selfish?

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Awesome post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by: happymomof3

I believe that God made our bodies to function in a certain way. Interfering with our hormones and ovulation and barriers is interfering with how we were created. I know that you could say that a lot of medical surgury and medicines also interfere (and I don't think that that is wrong, in fact I think it's great!)

Matt - the above statement is the one I was responding to. The poster seems to regard "interference" for birth control wrong, but "interference" for other reasons is acceptable. That does not seem to be consistent to me.

If I understand the distinction you are making between NFP and a barrier method, the crucial aspect seems to be "not changing the way God created the act to function". It seems to me that God created sexual intercourse to include a possibility of pregnancy a great deal of the time. If one is selecting particular activties to avoid sperm and egg getting together, isn't that trying to change the way God intended the act to function?

Why must it only be used to avoid pregnancy for serious reasons? What's a serious reason?

I am all all all for Christians waking up and realizing how amazingly BIG family is, and how much of an impact one godly family can have on the world!

Birth control has taught us that babies are a CHOICE instead of a blessing. God's Word does not say that babies are choices...God's Word says that babies are gifts, blessings, arrows, delightful, to be desired...

Malachi says that God ordained marraige for this purpose, "that He might have godly seed." The purpose for the marraige union is FRUIT--spiritual, emotional, mental, AND physical (ie, babies).

Our society loves pleasure, not work, so of course our society loves getting rid of the big bad baby... but God's viewpoint on the matter is sooooo different.

We believe there are times for birth control measures, and are greatful for them. A woman who is going to die if she is pregnant, for example--well, praise God for birth control, and it sure makes sense for her to use it.

But for most Christians, the reason we embrace birth control without a thought is simply because we've embraced a lot of bunk from our culture without a thought...we've assumed our cultures mindset is the same as God's...and we've never taken the time to go to God's Word and see what HE says on the issue.

God never says, "thou shalt not use birth control." But He does say, very clearly, what He thinks about a family, what a family is for, what the roles in the family are, and what He thinks about the womb, about babies, about children... It is very powerful, and in direct contradiction to the opinions of our culture.

It all depends on what you want to express...our society's worldview, or God's.

Blessings,
Molly

alaskamolly said:

I am all all all for Christians waking up and realizing how amazingly BIG family is, and how much of an impact one godly family can have on the world!

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Ever stop and think what kind of an impact a lousy parent can have on a child? It's not pretty.

Our society loves pleasure, not work, so of course our society loves getting rid of the big bad baby... but God's viewpoint on the matter is sooooo different.

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Nobody's talking about 'getting rid' of babies. Some people just don't want to have them in the first place. Call me selfish and evil, whatever. I've said it before on here, I'll say it again--I'd much rather be selfish right now and be a good mother later on. I'm 22 years old! There is a great big world out there and I want to see as much of it as I can, and the fact is, you can't do that very well with a baby on your hip. Just because I'm married doesn't mean I NEED a baby right now. Just because I"m married doesn't mean I HAVE to have a baby.

A woman who is going to die if she is pregnant, for example--well, praise God for birth control, and it sure makes sense for her to use it.

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Ah, but someone like Andrea Yates, who, if given the chance to use birth control and not have babies in the first place is a bad person for making that choice. Your reasoning makes no sense. What's good for the goose...

But for most Christians, the reason we embrace birth control without a thought is simply because we've embraced a lot of bunk from our culture without a thought...we've assumed our cultures mindset is the same as God's...and we've never taken the time to go to God's Word and see what HE says on the issue.

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Thank you for making assumptions about me and what I believe! I appreciate it! How do you know that God Himself hasn't convicted me about having children? How do you know my heart? How do you know that maybe I'm unable to have children, so the desire to have them was taken away from me completely?

CCLMatthew said:

It has to do with the fact that God wants us to be fruitful and multiply, women will be saved through childbearing etc. The fact that parenting can help us grow up in ways normal life cannot...etc.

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How fruitful is fruitful enough? And does this even apply to us today? The command was given to Adam and Eve, and Noah and his family. There was a great need at that time to be fruitful because the earth's population was so sparse. God then spoke these words to Jacob. Why: "A nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you, and kings shall come from your body." God promised Abraham that his descendants would be many. Therefore Jacob is told to be fruitful so that God's promise to Abraham would be fulfilled.

I don't have a clear answer to the question of who it applies to, but I'm not convinced that it applies to us today. That's not to say that we shouldn't have children. I just don't think it is a command as much as it is a blessing.

As for women being saved through childbearing: I believe that is a reference to Eve and not to the general population of women. Eve sinned and her sin separated her from God. Her salvation could only come through Christ, therefore in order to be saved she must bear children so that Christ could come into the world and atone for her sin.