• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Jan001

Striving to win the prize...
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2013
3,938
547
Midwest
✟303,545.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married

Jesus indicates Election of Some !​


Election is perhaps the most despised Gospel doctrine in all the scripture. It magnifies the Sovereign Mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet Jesus who is the only way of Salvation indicates it especially in John's Gospel. Listen to John 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The words of Christ here "All that the Father giveth to me" denotes certain ones had been given to Him by His Father !

John 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The words of Christ here "as many as thou hast given me" indicate only certain ones should He give eternal life to. Thats election .

Jesus Christ preached that obedience to God's commandments is necessary for salvation. Every Christian should believe him because God the Father appointed him to be our judge.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:3-4
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


Revelation 2:10
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 13:20-23
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
 
Upvote 0

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2020
5,756
658
68
Georgia
✟125,375.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jn 6:39

Jesus again in John makes a comment indicating Election Jn 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Also from this verse we see its the Fathers Will, that He lose nothing of the All He gave to Him !

This is speaking of final Salvation or Glorification of the Elect given to Christ !
 
Upvote 0

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2020
5,756
658
68
Georgia
✟125,375.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jesus Christ preached that obedience to God's commandments is necessary for salvation. Every Christian should believe him because God the Father appointed him to be our judge.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:3-4
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


Revelation 2:10
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 13:20-23
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
"Your argument completely confuses the root of salvation with its fruit. Scripture never teaches that human obedience causes salvation; it teaches that obedience is the inevitable result of God's sovereign grace.
  1. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus isn't teaching salvation by legal obedience. He is using the Law to crush the Rich Young Ruler's self-righteousness. Jesus concludes the exact conversation in verse 26 by stating that salvation is humanly 'impossible,' but possible with God.
  2. Texts like 1 John 2:3 state that keeping commandments is how we 'know that we know him.' Obedience is the outward evidence of regeneration, not the conditional cause of it. Under the New Covenant (Ezekiel 36:27), God explicitly states: 'I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes.' God secures the obedience of His elect.
  3. Regarding Matthew 10:22 and enduring to the end: The elect endure precisely because Christ preserves them. As John 6:39 declares, it is the Father's absolute will that Christ 'should lose nothing' of all that was given to Him. If a believer could fail to endure and be cast into hell, Christ would have failed the Father's will—which is a theological impossibility.
The good ground in Matthew 13 bears fruit because God prepared the soil. The other soils never had true, rooted spiritual life. We do not work to be saved; we work because we are saved by unmerited, unshakeable grace."
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]


 
Upvote 0

Jan001

Striving to win the prize...
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2013
3,938
547
Midwest
✟303,545.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Jn 6:39

Jesus again in John makes a comment indicating Election Jn 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Also from this verse we see its the Fathers Will, that He lose nothing of the All He gave to Him !

This is speaking of final Salvation or Glorification of the Elect given to Christ !

God chose his "elect" people according to his omniscient foreknowledge of their every thought, word, and deed of their future physical life on earth. His "election" was conditional, not unconditional.

1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father by being set apart by the Spirit for obedience and for sprinkling with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be yours in ever increasing measure.


Before the foundation of the world, God the Father gave the people he foreknew would be faithful—obeying his commandments until their death—to his son, Jesus Christ.

Jesus also reiterates the requirement that to enter eternal life, a person must obey God's commandments.


Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”


1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision
(being a Jew) is nothing and uncircumcision (being a Gentile) is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
 
Upvote 0

Jan001

Striving to win the prize...
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2013
3,938
547
Midwest
✟303,545.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
"Your argument completely confuses the root of salvation with its fruit. Scripture never teaches that human obedience causes salvation; it teaches that obedience is the inevitable result of God's sovereign grace. ......The good ground in Matthew 13 bears fruit because God prepared the soil. The other soils never had true, rooted spiritual life. We do not work to be saved; we work because we are saved by unmerited, unshakeable grace."


A person gains eternal salvation by cooperating with God's grace—his Holy Spirit—until his death. He who endures faithfully to the end of his life in his obedience to God's commandments with the help of God's grace will spend eternity with God.

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.


The Christian who becomes disobedient and dies unrepentant will receive God's wrath for eternity. Titus 1:16, Ephesians 5:6, Hebrews 4:11

2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


All unrepentant Christian liars are thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
 
Upvote 0