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Adventist view on the Nature of Christ

Sophia7

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Are non-Sabbatarian Christians Christians? Don't they, by your beliefs,, bear the Mark of the Beast?

Do you consider members of the RCC Christians?
Not yet. The mark of the beast hasn't been issued yet, according to Adventist doctrine. That is predicted to happen at the end of time, when a national Sunday law is issued and everyone has to make a choice between Sabbath and Sunday worship. In the meantime, anyone who now goes to church on Sunday out of ignorance of the Sabbath could be considered a sincere Christian (even RCC members), as long as they haven't rejected the Sabbath "truth." Those who are not ignorant, though (especially former Adventists like me), are endangering our salvation.
 
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reddogs

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Not yet. The mark of the beast hasn't been issued yet, according to Adventist doctrine. That is predicted to happen at the end of time, when a national Sunday law is issued and everyone has to make a choice between Sabbath and Sunday worship. In the meantime, anyone who now goes to church on Sunday out of ignorance of the Sabbath could be considered a sincere Christian (even RCC members), as long as they haven't rejected the Sabbath "truth." Those who are not ignorant, though (especially former Adventists like me), are endangering our salvation.
There will come a time when its laid out in the open, and all can choose, what is the truth of Christ or stay in bondage to the adversary, then the probation will close. One will have the 'mark' of their master at that point.. As we see from Christ...

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
 
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prodromos

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When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible.
I responded to this in another thread. Natures do not die. Persons die.
Jesus, who is God, died. God died. To say otherwise is to fall into the heresy of Nestorianism.
 

The Liturgist

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I responded to this in another thread. Natures do not die. Persons die.
Jesus, who is God, died. God died. To say otherwise is to fall into the heresy of Nestorianism.

Indeed, and Nestorianism is not actually consistent with the Nicene Creed because it divides Christ into two persons or two hypostasis, which is why St. Cyril opposed it.

It’s for this same reason we refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary as the Mother of God, because a nature cannot have a mother.
 
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stevevw

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The whole debate on Christs nature and divinity is about a culture war and not the truth of the gospel. That its about Christs nature and the nature of man is a telling sign that this is another way to smuggle in and rationalise humans fallen nature as being ok.

I look at in in simple terms. In Christ we can no longer live with sin or sin in our hearts. Which is our conscience. This is between Christ and the individual.

Christ showed us the perfect person who did not sin. Though some some there are others who come close like Mary or one or two of the saints. The point is it was not that Christ had the ability to be so good and not sin. It was that each time he submitted and trusted His father.

It was not as if Christ did not know what the ramifications would be if He followed His own will. He fully knew. But at the same time he fully felt the difference. That is what made it so hard and painful that Jesus was physically sick from having to keep submitting.

So in some ways Christ was fully man that he knew the difference as we know that difference. There was nothing of supernatural ability in Him that made it easier for Him to submit to God and not feel as man does. It was a trust choice despite all that pain and conditions that made that situation and His body scream out Nooo I can't do it. He stuck to that same trust when it was not so bad all the way until it was unbearable.

Somehow by doing that Christ could keep going. This same courage or stocism or whatever you call it has been seen in people who may even be seen as sinners. But it seems that humans have this ability at times.

Maybe the aim is to be able to do it most or all the time. But its more about trusting in Gods word than anything Christ or any humans can do. More a relational truth and commitment. If you could believe that such a truth and reality could have such ability.
 
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prodromos

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The whole debate on Christs nature and divinity is about a culture war and not the truth of the gospel.
It is absolutely about the truth of the Gospel and nothing about a culture war.
 
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reddogs

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prodromos

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So as 'fully man' could He suffer what man suffers and susceptible to temptation and falling into Satans trap as Adam did...
That was answered fully in the other thread that was locked. No, Jesus could not fail.
 
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tall73

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So as 'fully man' could He suffer what man suffers and susceptible to temptation and falling into Satans trap as Adam did...


The plan of salvation was determined before hand, and could not fail. There was no risk.

For instance these texts which use ὁρίζω:

Luke 22:22
22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed! (KJV)​

It was DETERMINED that Jesus would go to the cross for us. There was zero risk of failure.​

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain (KJV)​

It was by the determinate counsel of God, and His foreknowledge that Jesus would be crucified for us. It could not happen otherwise. There was zero risk of failure.

2 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. (KJV)​


He is ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead--which He could not do if He lost His eternal existence. But that was impossible, because He could be no other than the Judge of the quick and dead--It was ordained of God. There was zero risk of failure.

or προορίζω

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. (KJV)​

It could be no other way but that Jesus would go to the cross for us. God's hand and Gods counsel determined before that it would be done. There was zero risk of failure.

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. (KJV)

God ordained before the world for our glory that Jesus would be crucified for us. There was zero risk of failure.

The Servant would not fail:


Jesus was tempted. He could not fail, because it was declared He shall not fail. And that God would keep Him.

1 “Behold! My Servant​
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!​
I have put My Spirit upon Him;​
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.​
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,​
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.​
3 A bruised reed He will not break,​
And smoking flax He will not quench;​
He will bring forth justice for truth.​
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”​
5 Thus says God the LORD,​
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,​
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,​
Who gives breath to the people on it,​
And spirit to those who walk on it:​
6 “I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness,​
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,​
As a light to the Gentiles,​
7 To open blind eyes,​
To bring out prisoners from the prison,​
Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.​
8 I am the LORD, that is My name;​
And My glory I will not give to another,​
Nor My praise to carved images.​
9 Behold, the former things have come to pass,
And new things I declare;
Before they spring forth I tell you of them.” (NKJV)​


We know the true end by what He told us. And it is not failure. There was zero risk of failure, because God foreknew and determined before hand.
 
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