WATER BAPTISM ISN'T FOR US

prodromos said:

The former was spoken to a single person, while the latter was spoken to the Apostles.

Click to expand...

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Earlier you - ore someone else here - said to the 11 apostles and every gentile, that's why the "church" has to execute this commandment.

So only the rich man had to sell everything and share it with the poor according to you? If you read Acts 2:40-45 you will see this was common when the Kingdom of Heaven was still preached. In Acts 5:1-11 the punishment if you lied about it. So this commandment was for all who wanted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (a treasure in heaven).

prodromos said:

This is he kind of statement that gets threads locked. Don't be a jerk.

Click to expand...

It wasn't a jerk question, it was a serious question since you didn't notice Paul was preaching something completely different then the apostles for Israel, just read the letters of James, John, Peter and Jude. Peter even says the letters of Paul are hard to understand 2 Pet. 3:16. How could this be if they were teaching the exact same thing? He didn't understand his own gospel?

prodromos said:

"Uncircumcision" simply means the Gentiles. "Circumcision" means the Jews. That is plainly obvious from the Galatians passage you quoted before. Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles while Peter was Apostle to the Jews, although they both preached to the other groups. This does not say they had different Gospel teaching for each group. That is you reading your own personal views into the text.

Click to expand...

Again the Holy Spirit let Paul use these specific words for a reason, not because they are the same as gentile and Jews. See Exodus 12:48 "And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. "

The Jews was preached the Kingdom of Heaven long promised to them in the O..T. See for example Dan. 2:44 "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven), which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people (hence Israel), but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." In Exodus 19:6 "... And ye (Israel) shall be unto me a kingdom of priests ..." repeated in the N.T. in 1 Pet. 2:9 "But ye (Israel) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation ..." and twice in Revelation, 1:6 and 5:10. Paul was sent to the gentiles and the Kingdom of Heaven was never promised to the gentiles, Paul therefore doesn't speak about it.

My own personal views are worth nothing, the only thing that matters is what Gods word says, rightly divided and noticing the things that differ as Paul tells us to do.

There is a big difference between the gospel of the uncircumcision and the gospel of the circumcision. If you think everything is the same, you have become a victim of the everything-is-the-same-doctrine. Which is a shame.

Aristarkos

And is Gl

Aristarkos said:

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Earlier you - ore someone else here - said to the 11 apostles and every gentile, that's why the "church" has to execute this commandment.

So only the rich man had to sell everything and share it with the poor according to you? If you read Acts 2:40-45 you will see this was common when the Kingdom of Heaven was still preached. In Acts 5:1-11 the punishment if you lied about it. So this commandment was for all who wanted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (a treasure in heaven).

It wasn't a jerk question, it was a serious question since you didn't notice Paul was preaching something completely different then the apostles for Israel, just read the letters of James, John, Peter and Jude. Peter even says the letters of Paul are hard to understand 2 Pet. 3:16. How could this be if they were teaching the exact same thing? He didn't understand his own gospel?

Again the Holy Spirit let Paul use these specific words for a reason, not because they are the same as gentile and Jews. See Exodus 12:48 "And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. "

The Jews was preached the Kingdom of Heaven long promised to them in the O..T. See for example Dan. 2:44 "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven), which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people (hence Israel), but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." In Exodus 19:6 "... And ye (Israel) shall be unto me a kingdom of priests ..." repeated in the N.T. in 1 Pet. 2:9 "But ye (Israel) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation ..." and twice in Revelation, 1:6 and 5:10. Paul was sent to the gentiles and the Kingdom of Heaven was never promised to the gentiles, Paul therefore doesn't speak about it.

My own personal views are worth nothing, the only thing that matters is what Gods word says, rightly divided and noticing the things that differ as Paul tells us to do.

There is a big difference between the gospel of the uncircumcision and the gospel of the circumcision. If you think everything is the same, you have become a victim of the everything-is-the-same-doctrine. Which is a shame.

Aristarkos

Click to expand...

AND in. Gal 6:15 say. FOR in CHRIST JESUS neither CIRCUMCION. is of any force. NOR UNCIRCUMCISIOM. but

a new n. CRTEATION. and that is. pointing to the BODY OF CHRIST !!

dan p

Aristarkos said:

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Earlier you - ore someone else here - said to the 11 apostles and every gentile, that's why the "church" has to execute this commandment.

Click to expand...

It wasn't me.

Aristarkos said:

So only the rich man had to sell everything and share it with the poor according to you?

Click to expand...

If he wanted to be perfect, yes. Christ told him this to expose how much the young man was tied to his material possessions.

Aristarkos said:

If you read Acts 2:40-45 you will see this was common when the Kingdom of Heaven was still preached.

Click to expand...

It was completely voluntary.

Aristarkos said:

In Acts 5:1-11 the punishment if you lied about it.

Click to expand...

They thought they could lie to God. They were pretending to be virtuous

Aristarkos said:

So this commandment was for all who wanted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (a treasure in heaven).

Click to expand...

It wasn't a commandment.

Aristarkos said:

It wasn't a jerk question, it was a serious question since you didn't notice Paul was preaching something completely different then the apostles for Israel

Click to expand...

I read the New Testament regularly and have currently just finished reading through Paul's letters again. I don't see what you imagine to be there.

Aristarkos said:

just read the letters of James, John, Peter and Jude.

Click to expand...

I have and do. You are imagining a difference.

Aristarkos said:

Peter even says the letters of Paul are hard to understand 2 Pet. 3:16. How could this be if they were teaching the exact same thing? He didn't understand his own gospel?

Click to expand...

Peter understood Paul just fine. It was other people who misunderstood Paul as you are an example.

Aristarkos said:

Again the Holy Spirit let Paul use these specific words for a reason, not because they are the same as gentile and Jews. See Exodus 12:48 "And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. "

The Jews was preached the Kingdom of Heaven long promised to them in the O..T. See for example Dan. 2:44 "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven), which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people (hence Israel), but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." In Exodus 19:6 "... And ye (Israel) shall be unto me a kingdom of priests ..." repeated in the N.T. in 1 Pet. 2:9 "But ye (Israel) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation ..." and twice in Revelation, 1:6 and 5:10. Paul was sent to the gentiles and the Kingdom of Heaven was never promised to the gentiles, Paul therefore doesn't speak about it.

My own personal views are worth nothing, the only thing that matters is what Gods word says, rightly divided and noticing the things that differ as Paul tells us to do.

There is a big difference between the gospel of the uncircumcision and the gospel of the circumcision. If you think everything is the same, you have become a victim of the everything-is-the-same-doctrine. Which is a shame.

Click to expand...

I feel sorry for you.

Aristarkos said:

You did read my pevious posts right?

Click to expand...

From what I gathered from your posts is that the Gentiles inherited nothing as far as miracles, healings, resurrections etc. It seemed, to me, that you were saying Paul imparted none of that to the Gentiles. I was pointing out that he indeed imparted these gifts of the Spirit as evidenced in 1 Corinthians 12. These gifts may have diminished but did not cease after 70 AD.

I believe Paul affirms matters of signs, wonders, & mighty deeds ( verse 12) in 2 Corinthians 12:1-13 but ultimately tells us what the Lord told him His grace is sufficient for Paul (in verse 9 which I take to mean all of us).

Aristarkos said:

You don't say....

Which gospel are you talking about, Paul's? He preached the gospel of the uncircumsision. The everyone else you made up, it doesn't say anywhere "ye" and "anyone else". Not only do we read nowhere about the 11 baptizing this way, more importantly Paul who was pointed to go to the gentiles never did it.

Well, what are they? They where not written, so we know nothing about it.

You're serious? "They" maybe maybe didn't feel the need? Saying you did something at least once isn't repeating and they didn't even did that. You're telling me that this majorly important commandment was never even written once when done? I don't believe that.

Did you sell all your goods and shared the proceeds with those who don't have?

No, there is a different good message for the Jews and for the gentiles as Paul clearly states in Galatians:

Gal. 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Aristarkos

Click to expand...

Are you just a sock for Dan P who speaks better English?

A New Dawn said:

Are you just a sock for Dan P who speaks better English?

Click to expand...

None of you will be able to say you didn't know, you were told.

2 Tim. 4:3-4 says ""For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Thank you Lukaris, prodromos and you for the exchange.

Aristarkos

Aristarkos said:

None of you will be able to say you didn't know, you were told.

2 Tim. 4:3-4 says ""For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Thank you Lukaris, prodromos and you for the exchange.

Aristarkos

Click to expand...

So your suggestion is to just ignore what Jesus commanded us to do. Yeah, no thanks. Not everything that was done in the NT age was recorded, and I think that every baptism done wasn’t recorded, and many were done following the commands of Jesus. You go ahead and ignore it if you want. I good with following Jesus’ commandments because I want to serve Him and that is what he asked to do.

A New Dawn said:

So your suggestion is to just ignore what Jesus commanded us to do. Yeah, no thanks. Not everything that was done in the NT age was recorded, and I think that every baptism done wasn’t recorded, and many were done following the commands of Jesus. You go ahead and ignore it if you want. I good with following Jesus’ commandments because I want to serve Him and that is what he asked to do.

Click to expand...

And in. Gal. 1:8. and 9 AS. the HOLY SPIRIT had Paul write !!

But even. as we or and Angel. fro out of HEAVEN should be PREACHING. the Gospel. to you. CONRARY. to what we PTEACHED to you

let him be ACCURSED. and means to be EXCOMMUNICATED !!
dan p

Dan Perez said:

And in. Gal. 1:8. and 9 AS. the HOLY SPIRIT had Paul write !!

Click to expand...

In Acts 8 as the Holy Spirit had Philip do!!

prodromos said:

In Acts 8 as the Holy Spirit had Philip do!!

Click to expand...

And you mean ACTS 8:38 ??

And ACTS 1:5 where water baptism is GONE. and the HOLY. SPIRIT begins

and that. is why PAUL was not allowed to WATER BAPTIZE NO ON IN 1 COR 1:15. !!

And if you ask about verse 114 read verse 15 again. !!


And in Eph 4:5 reads , ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISM !!

ONE // HEIS. means ONE . ONLY. !!

And it is the word BAPTISMA and used 22 times !!

dan p

Quote:
And ACTS 1:5 where water baptism is GONE. and the HOLY. SPIRIT begins


So you forbid the water the Apostles did not ( Acts 8:38, Acts 10:47-48 etc.) & redefine how Paul baptized in 1 Corinthians 1:13-15.

Not to mention redefining witness that attests to the Spirit, water, & blood ( 1 John 5:6-8),

Sounds like false witness to me ( Exodus 20:16).

Dan Perez said:

And in. Gal. 1:8. and 9 AS. the HOLY SPIRIT had Paul write !!

But even. as we or and Angel. fro out of HEAVEN should be PREACHING. the Gospel. to you. CONRARY. to what we PTEACHED to you

let him be ACCURSED. and means to be EXCOMMUNICATED !!
dan p

Click to expand...

Exactly, and as someone preaching different gospel, telling people it’s OK to ignore what Jesus commanded us to do, I’d be careful if I was you.

Dan Perez said:

And you mean ACTS 8:38 ??

Click to expand...

Yes

Dan Perez said:

And ACTS 1:5 where water baptism is GONE. and the HOLY. SPIRIT begins

Click to expand...

Not true. Acts 1:5 refers to a singular event which occurred to only the Apostles 10 days later. If it was a general reference for people converting to Christianity then we would expect to see tongues of fire over every new convert. You badly misinterpret that verse.

Dan Perez said:

and that. is why PAUL was not allowed to WATER BAPTIZE NO ON IN 1 COR 1:15. !!

Click to expand...

Paul did indeed baptise Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas. You deny the Scriptures while at the same time admit that baptism involved water.

Dan Perez said:

And if you ask about verse 114 read verse 15 again. !!

Click to expand...

Paul's companions were the ones who did the baptising.

Dan Perez said:

And in Eph 4:5 reads , ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISM !!

Click to expand...

Which is a water baptism, through which we are buried and raised with Christ (Romans 6:3-11)

Dan Perez said:

ONE // HEIS. means ONE . ONLY. !!

And it is the word BAPTISMA and used 22 times !!

Click to expand...

This is speaking of Christians generally and does not reference the event unique to the Apostles at Pentecost. You are also quoting the wrong word. "HEIS" means "into" or "to, towards" and it isnt even the preposition used before "baptism" in that verse, which is "EN".
<edit>
I need to correct the above reference. The inflection was stripped from the text so my lexicon gave the wrong reference.
"εἷς", "μία" and "ἕν" are the masculine, feminine and neuter forms of "one" in Koine Greek (ένας, μία and ένα in Modern Greek)
"εἰς" means "into" or "towards"
I'm leaving my earlier incorrect reference
</edit>

Lukaris said:

Quote:
And ACTS 1:5 where water baptism is GONE. and the HOLY. SPIRIT begins


So you forbid the water the Apostles did not ( Acts 8:38, Acts 10:47-48 etc.) & redefine how Paul baptized in 1 Corinthians 1:13-15.

Not to mention redefining witness that attests to the Spirit, water, & blood ( 1 John 5:6-8),

Sounds like false witness to me ( Exodus 20:16).

Click to expand...

And it is ACTS 1:5 that says water is gone and THE BAPISM of Holy SPORIT BEGINS !!

dan p

Dan Perez said:

And it is ACTS 1:5 that says water is gone and THE BAPISM of Holy SPORIT BEGINS !!

dan p

Click to expand...

I was hoping this had run its course but since you go on. You have no, nothing, nada evidence of water baptism not being the form of witness as to how the early Christians ( & the multitude of Christians onwards) attested to baptism of the Spirit. Over and over I have referenced 1 John 5:1-13 ( & 1 John 5:6-9 in particular) but you just go on with disjointed replies. Water doesn’t wash away sins; it is the witness to the faithful that a believer testifies to baptism of the Spirit.

I guess you have a problem with the Lord Who Himself chose to be baptized for our salvation as the Father, Son, & Holy Spiriy testified in Matthew 3:13-17? Or the apostle John who tells us to walk as the Lord did ( 1 John 2:6)?

Lukaris said:

I was hoping this had run its course but since you go on. You have no, nothing, nada evidence of water baptism not being the form of witness as to how the early Christians ( & the multitude of Christians onwards) attested to baptism of the Spirit. Over and over I have referenced 1 John 5:1-13 ( & 1 John 5:6-9 in particular) but you just go on with disjointed replies. Water doesn’t wash away sins; it is the witness to the faithful that a believer testifies to baptism of the Spirit.

I guess you have a problem with the Lord Who Himself chose to be baptized for our salvation as the Father, Son, & Holy Spiriy testified in Matthew 3:13-17? Or the apostle John who tells us to walk as the Lord did ( 1 John 2:6)?

Click to expand...

AND since Jesus was WATER BAPTIZED , WHY was he WATER. BAPTIZED ??

dan p

Dan Perez said:

AND since Jesus was WATER BAPTIZED , WHY was he WATER. BAPTIZED ??

dan p

Click to expand...

To sanctify the waters for our baptisms, and to set an example for His followers.

Lukaris said:

From what I gathered from your posts is that the Gentiles inherited nothing as far as miracles, healings, resurrections etc. It seemed, to me, that you were saying Paul imparted none of that to the Gentiles. I was pointing out that he indeed imparted these gifts of the Spirit as evidenced in 1 Corinthians 12. These gifts may have diminished but did not cease after 70 AD.

I believe Paul affirms matters of signs, wonders, & mighty deeds ( verse 12) in 2 Corinthians 12:1-13 but ultimately tells us what the Lord told him His grace is sufficient for Paul (in verse 9 which I take to mean all of us).

Click to expand...

And in. Acts 19:6 Luke wrote this of PAUL. :

And Paul. , having laid hands upon. them. THE HOLY SPIRIT came upon them and they were SPEAKING

IN Languages. and were PROPHRSYING. !!
dan p