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Disputed doctrine.

Servus

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Not at all. All your doing is inventing things now, I never said such a thing.

More inventions. You should know by now I don't pull punches with what Scripture and His Church teaches.

I don't think you know my view. What you have done is represent me as saying stuff I've never said.
Okay, sorry. I did say I think as in I suspected and that I wasn't sure. I'm still not sure what to make of "many Christians" as to who those many Christians are supposed to be.
So go fish.
I was fishing. If you want me to keep playing guessing games that's fine. But there's the chance that I'm going to guess wrong.
 
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concretecamper

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If Catholic theologians have left Aristotle behind
I think the Aristotle reasoning was promoted most by Protestants in an effort to accuse the Church of changing doctrine.
 
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concretecamper

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Okay, sorry. I did say I think as in I suspected and that I wasn't sure. I'm still not sure what to make of "many Christians" as to who those many Christians are supposed to be.
The Church has always taught that the Sacrament of Baptism makes one a Christian. It is a free gift from God that does not require anyone to work by first doing something. Many who are not Baptized call themselves Christians, which is against scripture and Church teaching.
 
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Servus

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The Church has always taught that the Sacrament of Baptism makes one a Christian. It is a free gift from God that does not require anyone to work by first doing something. Many who are not Baptized call themselves Christians, which is against scripture and Church teaching.
I'm not aware of many Christians not being baptized. Rather in my 50+ years of experience, most (like 95-99% of) Christians across the board are baptized. If you're talking about false in name only Christians, they fall in with the unsaved. So it's most unsaved people are not baptized. Not sure what unsaved non-christians have to do with the topic.
 
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Hentenza

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Scripture tells us Baptism makes one part of His Body, which is the Church. His Church has taught this for close to 2,000 years.
Baptism is part of all mainstream churches and all mainstream churches baptize using the Trinitarian formula. Your denomination
Baptizes the same way.

But again, that doesn’t answer the comment in my post. Here it is again.

“No difference. They would be in fact Christians. I don’t recall God making you the authority in who is or who isn’t Christian.”

Who gives you the right to determine which Christians from the mainstream churches are Christian or not?
 
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Hentenza

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The Church has always taught that the Sacrament of Baptism makes one a Christian. It is a free gift from God that does not require anyone to work by first doing something. Many who are not Baptized call themselves Christians, which is against scripture and Church teaching.
Which Christians from the mainstream churches are not baptized?
 
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truthuprootsevil

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Christians dispute many things but none more vehemently than the doctrines that divide them. Consider these:
  1. Credo baptism
  2. Sabbatarianism
  3. The number of sacraments
  4. The canon of holy scripture
  5. The use of doctrinal standards
  6. The proper interpretation of the holy scriptures
  7. Symbolic sacraments that perform no effective mediation of any graces
  8. Rejection of confession and penance
  9. Rejection of bishops
  10. Predestination both to glory and to perdition
  11. Submersion in baptism
  12. The real absence
  13. Rejection of vestments
  14. Rejection of the Crucifix
  15. Rejection of prayers to and through the saints
  16. Rejection of postmortem cleansing of souls
  17. ... many many more.
It makes one wonder how Christians can ever hope to find a way to mutual respect and shared communion.
True Christians do have different theology which separates the churches.

The majority of those differences will not condemn one or place one under salvation. Nitpicking is a good way to identify it.

One ignores Christians have a CORE belief and that belief is in Yeshua /Jesus. Yeshua Himself will sort out - weed out those differences, whether before or during judgment.

People look at the surrounding differences and always leave out the core.
Overview of Christianity | Equality, Diversity & Inclusion Overview of Christianity | Equality, Diversity & Inclusion
 
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PloverWing

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I think the Aristotle reasoning was promoted most by Protestants in an effort to accuse the Church of changing doctrine.

I didn't know Catholics viewed the idea of transubstantiation as an accusation. Thomas Aquinas seems to use the language of "substance" and "accidents" in his writings (e.g., SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The change of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ (Tertia Pars, Q. 75)), and I understood his writings to be an important part of the development of Christian thought in medieval Europe.

If you're telling me that Catholics see Thomas Aquinas as one great theologian among many, and we can keep the best of his ideas without adopting all of his thoughts or all of his philosophy -- well, that's how I see him too, so perhaps we're in agreement.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I know it is not a shared belief, but I believe mutual respect and shared communion could be done without 100% doctrinal agreement.
I think that the attribution for your signature is incorrect because the earliest reliably documented form of the saying comes from Rupertus Meldenius, a relatively obscure 17th‑century Lutheran theologian (real name: Peter Meiderlin). He wrote it in 1627 in a tract titled: “Paraenesis votiva pro pace ecclesiae ad theologos Augustanae confessionis”
 
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concretecamper

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Baptism is part of all mainstream churches and all mainstream churches baptize using the Trinitarian formula. Your denomination
Baptizes the same way.
But not all Baptize with the proper intention. Some view Baptism not as a salvific Sacrament but as a mere gesture. Scripture and Church teaching says that is invalid.
“No difference. They would be in fact Christians. I don’t recall God making you the authority in who is or who isn’t Christian.”
I'm not the authority, Scripture and the Church is. Pay attention.
Who gives you the right to determine which Christians from the mainstream churches are Christian or not?
See my answer above
Which Christians from the mainstream churches are not baptized?
The real question is validly Baptized.
 
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Hentenza

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But not all Baptize with the proper intention. Some view Baptism not as a salvific Sacrament but as a mere gesture. Scripture and Church teaching says that is invalid.
No. You really have no clue. In my denomination baptism is an outward profession of faith of what has already happened internally which is why we do not baptize infants. We believe that baptism is the result of regeneration and faith. The intent is fully biblical.
I'm not the authority, Scripture and the Church is.
You seem to put yourself as the authority. You have no say on which Christian from the mainstream churches is Christian and who is not.
Pay attention.
Not to you.
See my answer above
Where?
The real question is validly Baptized.
All baptisms of Christians in mainstream churches are valid.
 
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concretecamper

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No. You really have no clue. In my denomination baptism is an outward profession of faith of what has already happened internally which is why we do not baptize infants. We believe that baptism is the result of regeneration and faith. The intent is fully biblical.
Hmm, proper intent may be lacking.
You seem to put yourself as the authority. You have no say on which Christian from the mainstream churches is Christian and who is not.
All I have is Scripture and His Church's teaching, which is what I post.
All baptisms of Christians in mainstream churches are valid.
It depends.
 
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Hentenza

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seeking.IAM

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I think that the attribution for your signature is incorrect because the earliest reliably documented form of the saying comes from Rupertus Meldenius, a relatively obscure 17th‑century Lutheran theologian (real name: Peter Meiderlin). He wrote it in 1627 in a tract titled: “Paraenesis votiva pro pace ecclesiae ad theologos Augustanae confessionis”

Thank you for the education and corrections. You have sent me down a rabbit hole. Copilot AI agrees with you, whilst saying an even earlier version of the sentiment was in Marco Antonio de Dominis's De Republica Ecclesiastica (1617), "in necessary things unity; in uncertain things liberty; in all things charity." I shall make the correction! Meldenius version was 1626
 
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Valletta

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I've also heard "munch".

Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. John 6:63

Or; "the flesh is of no avail" RSVCE if you prefer.
Jesus is not showing us he was previously lying when he says "the flesh is of no avail." The flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ is far different than things of "the flesh" of which man is told to not make so important.
 
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Servus

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Hmm, proper intent may be lacking.
You're so intentionally vague you know that intent can't be establish.
All I have is Scripture and His Church's teaching, which is what I post.
That's what those who hold unconventional views always say.
It depends.
But you won't say what it depends on. Probably because saying it outright would violate site rules.
Christ has only One Church, or in your words, there is only one game in town.
So you're saying unless one is a Roman Catholic they are of a false church, are false christians, have a false baptism etc, right? Now do you mean the present day RCC or the pre-Vatican II RCC?

Remember you invited me go fishing, so no complaining if I keep guessing wrong.
 
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Servus

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Jesus is not showing us he was previously lying when he says "the flesh is of no avail." The flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ is far different than things of "the flesh" of which man is told to not make so important.
So not that flesh but that flesh.
 
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