• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Disputed doctrine.

concretecamper

I stand with Candace
Nov 23, 2013
7,783
3,039
PA
✟378,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
He's saying it is closed to those who don't believe the gospel and who aren't baptized.
No, he says "believes that the things we teach are true".

And yes, he is referring to Baptism, which many who called themselves Christians haven't received the Sacrament.
 
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No, he says "believes that the things we teach are true".

And yes, he is referring to Baptism, which many who called themselves Christians haven't received the Sacrament.
They taught the gospel.
 
Upvote 0

concretecamper

I stand with Candace
Nov 23, 2013
7,783
3,039
PA
✟378,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Stating the fact that they taught the gospel is not changing what he said.
It was taught since the beginning of Christianity that the Eucharist is the actual flesh and blood of Christ.

So by saying you must believe what we teach is much more specific that saying " believe the Gospel" because as we know, many who call themselves Christian twist the Gospel and do not believe what the Church taught/teaches/and will continue to teach.
 
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It was taught since the beginning of Christianity that the Eucharist is the actual flesh and blood of Christ.

So by saying you must believe what we teach is much more specific that saying " believe the Gospel" because as we know, many who call themselves Christian twist the Gospel and do not believe what the Church taught/teaches/and will continue to teach.
The origin of the Eucharist is in the gospel. Most Christians believe what Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and James taught which was in accordance to the gospel. I'm not aware of Justin Martyr teaching anything that they did not teach.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

concretecamper

I stand with Candace
Nov 23, 2013
7,783
3,039
PA
✟378,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The origin of the Eucharist is in the gospel. Most Christians believe what Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and James taught which was in accordance to the gospel. I'm not aware of Justin Martyr teaching anything that they did not teach.
The difference is is that many who call themselves Christian say they believe what Jesus, Paul, Peter, and James taught yet reject the interpretation of the Church as displayed by Justin Martyr.

That's why there is a distinction between believe what we teach vs believe the Gospel. Saying believe the Gospel invites interpretation and believe what we teach does not
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
40,639
7,503
On the bus to Heaven
✟350,916.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We should be able to disagree with each other regarding doctrine amicably. I listed to a recorded lengthy debate between a Protestant and Catholic once, and while they had sharp disagreements they were quite cordial with one another and developed a friendship.
I’ve had many debates from Catholics and EOs that have been very civil and cordial. There are quite a few from the old days and some newer that I consider friends.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
40,639
7,503
On the bus to Heaven
✟350,916.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The difference is is that many who call themselves Christian say they believe what Jesus, Paul, Peter, and James taught yet reject the interpretation of the Church as displayed by Justin Martyr.

That's why there is a distinction between believe what we teach vs believe the Gospel. Saying believe the Gospel invites interpretation and believe what we teach does not
Most reject the interpretation of the Catholic Church. In fact the Catholic Church is the only mainstream church that teaches transubstantiation.
 
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The difference is is that many who call themselves Christian say they believe what Jesus, Paul, Peter, and James taught yet reject the interpretation of the Church as displayed by Justin Martyr.

That's why there is a distinction between believe what we teach vs believe the Gospel. Saying believe the Gospel invites interpretation and believe what we teach does not
I'm not aware of Justin Martyr displaying anything contrary to what Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and James taught in accordance to the Gospel. Which was the teaching of the Church in Justin Martyr's time. What did Justin Martyr teach that does not come from the Gospel and is not in accordance to the Gospel? Obviously his teaching of the Eucharist comes from the Gospel and is in accordance to the Gospel. So what are the things he taught that are not?
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
40,639
7,503
On the bus to Heaven
✟350,916.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The difference is is that many who call themselves Christian
No difference. They would be in fact Christians. I don’t recall God making you the authority in who is or who isn’t Christian.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Servus
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Most reject the interpretation of the Catholic Church. In fact the Catholic Church is the only mainstream church that teaches transubstantiation.
And transubstantiation wasn't establish until the 13th century.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hentenza
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No difference. They would be in fact Christians. I don’t recall God making you the authority in who is or who isn’t Christian.
I think he is presenting the hardline view that those who aren't Roman Catholic are only calling themselves Christians. That one can't be a true Christian unless they accept the doctrine, dogma, traditions, and practices of the Roman Catholic Church and receive confirmation into the RCC.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
40,639
7,503
On the bus to Heaven
✟350,916.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think he is presenting the hardline view that those who aren't Roman Catholic are only calling themselves Christians. That one can't be a true Christian unless they except the doctrine, dogma, traditions, and practices of the Roman Catholic Church and are confirmed into the RCC.
Do you agree with him?
 
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Do you agree with him?
I'd rather say I don't agree with that, since I'm not certain that's the view he's presenting. A lot of Catholics don't hold that view. Catholic Answers doesn't hold that view.

While contrary to that some Catholics go as far as saying the entire Roman Catholic Church became apostate after Vatican II and the Papacy has been vacant since Pius XII (1958). Mel Gibson is one of those (Sedevacantists). So basically you're not a true Christian if you belong to the post-Vatican II RCC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hentenza
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
5,411
2,169
60
Alabama
Visit site
✟685,098.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If you mean that their beliefs about holy communion are explained as "symbolic" then you're right, it is juice and bread present only as symbols of the body and blood of Christ - not a real presence but rather a real absence.
Christ presence is in the believer.
 
Upvote 0

concretecamper

I stand with Candace
Nov 23, 2013
7,783
3,039
PA
✟378,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No difference. They would be in fact Christians. I don’t recall God making you the authority in who is or who isn’t Christian.
Scripture tells us Baptism makes one part of His Body, which is the Church. His Church has taught this for close to 2,000 years.
I think he is presenting the hardline view that those who aren't Roman Catholic are only calling themselves Christians.
Not at all. All your doing is inventing things now, I never said such a thing.
. That one can't be a true Christian unless they accept the doctrine, dogma, traditions, and practices of the Roman Catholic Church and receive confirmation into the RCC.
More inventions. You should know by now I don't pull punches with what Scripture and His Church teaches.
I'd rather say I don't agree with that, since I'm not certain that's the view he's presenting. A lot of Catholics don't hold that view. Catholic Answers doesn't hold that view.
I don't think you know my view. What you have done is represent me as saying stuff I've never said. So go fish.
 
Upvote 0

PloverWing

Episcopalian
May 5, 2012
5,769
6,826
New Jersey
✟454,804.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I think the Aristotle reasoning has jumped the shark.

Well, that's why I am deferring to the Catholics in this thread to explain Catholic thought. If Catholic theologians have left Aristotle behind and are now explaining their theological reasoning using other philosophical frameworks, that's fine with me.

I'll let you say whether @Servus ' description matches wording that you would use, or whether you find it to be a caricature.
 
Upvote 0

Servus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
32,726
16,506
Washington
✟1,189,851.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Not at all. All your doing is inventing things now, I never said such a thing.

More inventions. You should know by now I don't pull punches with what Scripture and His Church teaches.

I don't think you know my view. What you have done is represent me as saying stuff I've never said.
Okay, sorry. I did say I think as in I suspected and that I wasn't sure. I'm still not sure what to make of "many Christians" as to who those many Christians are supposed to be.
So go fish.
I was fishing. If you want me to keep playing guessing games that's fine. But there's the chance that I'm going to guess wrong.
 
Upvote 0