Religiosity as an advantageous trait

Neogaia777 · Thursday at 2:34 AM

Bradskii said:
That there is no Sunday school version of the Pearly Gates? And no 72 virgins? That there is no reincarnation? And a lot of people following umpteen religions are afraid of death and they look to their religion as offering a continuation after death as some sort of prize for being good?

Are you sure you told him that in those terms?

I'd also like to know how old he was maybe also? If you'd like to provide that information that is? And if not, it's really none of my business, and you don't have to tell me, etc.

Bradskii said:
Yeah, those are things that I expect any reasonable person to accept as a given.

No offense @Bradskii, but those sound like absolutes to me, etc.

On a side note though, I do think it's pretty unreasonable to accept all of those things at face value, or how a lot of others usually present them, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's absolutely no truth to them at all, or that there is absolutely no kind of God, or God-like being, or an afterlife, or any other things like that, etc.

Bradskii said:
The kid is smart. If he hasn't thought much about those matters then when he does he'll come to the same conclusion.

And again, no offense, but that also sounds like an absolute to me. I don't see how you think you can be so certain, etc. As atypically presented maybe, but maybe not absolutely, etc.

Bradskii said:
It's like telling him that the world isn't flat or that it's not 6,000 years old. It's a given.

While I would agree with you about those things, I still think we should be careful about pressing all of our own beliefs (or non-beliefs) upon, especially very young children, 100% absolutely, but distinguish, etc. Distinguish between what we believe and think, and why, but letting them come to their own conclusions, etc.

Bradskii said:
Now when he's a little more mature and if he considers that there actually might be something beyond death, then that'll make for an interesting conversation over a couple of beers (I think he'll need another 5 years before his mother would allow that).

I think you'd still need to be careful to distinguish your own beliefs or what you think from what is 100% true/not true 100% absolutely.

Bradskii said:
But I didn't tell him that there isn't anything like that and that's what he must believe.

Didn't you though? Or am I maybe wrong about that?

Bradskii said:
And I'll state this again: The comments were not 'I don't believe in any of this, therefore...you don't get a second chance.' It's rather obviously 'I don't believe in any of this, but in any case...you don't get a second chance.'

And that's an important matter to distinguish, and I would agree with you there, and I think I already stated as much, and/or said that already.

Bradskii said:
Whether he'll believe the first part will be up to him.

But did you truly leave it up to him?

Because it might be something to think about or consider?

And maybe correct if you want to, or if you think it's needed, etc.

Or if not, don't, etc.

Bradskii said:
He's got no options on the second. It's as much of a fact as the world being round.

That this life happens/can happen only once, and that it's very, very important? Because I 100% agree with you there, and I think I've said as much already, etc.

Take Care @Bradskii

PS- I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way, but I think it's something to consider, etc. But also like I said, also none of my business as to how you teach your children/grandchildren, etc.

Take Care.

Bradskii · Thursday at 3:37 AM

Neogaia777 said:
Are you sure you told him that in those terms?

Obviously not exactly word for word. What was specific was 'there is no second chance'. That plus 'dress rehearsal' would be pretty much verbatim.

Neogaia777 said:
...but those sound like absolutes to me, etc.

Is there a God? I don't believe so. Is there some sort of afterlife? I don't believe so. Those matters are up to the individual. Are there Pearly Gates, 72 virgins or a 6,000 year old flat planet? No, there isn't. Absolutely there isn't. There is no question about it. It's not up for debate.

Well, the last item actually is, as there are enough people in this very forum who have such limited knowledge of basic scientific principles for there to be threads on the very matter popping up constantly. And I guess there are some who think there are actual Gates. And people who think that Ark was real, fairies live at the bottom of the garden and we used to ride around on dinosaurs. What can I say? What I will never say is that I don't believe any of that and it's up to the individual.

Neogaia777 · Thursday at 3:56 AM

Bradskii said:
Obviously not exactly word for word. What was specific was 'there is no second chance'. That plus 'dress rehearsal' would be pretty much verbatim.

Is there a God? I don't believe so. Is there some sort of afterlife? I don't believe so. Those matters are up to the individual. Are there Pearly Gates, 72 virgins or a 6,000 year old flat planet? No, there isn't. Absolutely there isn't. There is no question about it. It's not up for debate.

Well, the last item actually is, as there are enough people in this very forum who have such limited knowledge of basic scientific principles for there to be threads on the very matter popping up constantly. And I guess there are some who think there are actual Gates. And people who think that Ark was real, fairies live at the bottom of the garden and we used to ride around on dinosaurs. What can I say? What I will never say is that I don't believe any of that and it's up to the individual.

I'm not going to bother you about this anymore @Bradskii, but my advice is just to be careful with, especially very young children. They pretty much idolize us and will believe whatever you tell them for a very long time, even if that's not what you meant "exactly", etc.

I'd also advise everyone in the future (and not just you or what you believe @Bradskii) to try to expose your children to what you think, as just in the way of what you think, and if you feel so inclined, also why, etc, but let them draw their own conclusions always from there if you can do that, etc.

I was a parent once, and didn't always do it that way, but if I had it to do over again, I would now, etc. I'm still hoping she comes to me in the future about it now, as I'm much more better prepared to explain all of that to her now, etc. But I will still always allow her to draw her own conclusions about all of it even now though, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

Bradskii · Thursday at 4:08 AM

Neogaia777 said:
I'd also advise everyone in the future (and not just you or what you believe @Bradskii) to try to expose your children to what you think, as just in the way of what you think, and if you feel so inclined, also why, etc, but let them draw their own conclusions always from there if you can do that, etc.

Definitely agree.

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 5:49 AM

Neogaia777 said:
Look, @Bradskii has a right to teach his children/grandchildren whatever he wants, regardless of what we might think about it, etc.

The reason I didn't react the same way you guys did, is because I'm not at all surprised by it, like the rest of you were, etc. It's almost like you don't know what's going on in the world, and I do, etc. It's an atheistic family (probably) and this is probably going on in almost all atheistic/non-believing families everywhere, etc, and none of us should be surprised by it, etc.

His grandchild could change his mind later on also, etc, decide Grandpa was somewhat jaded, or had a somewhat jaded perspective/point of view, and wasn't evaluating this subject honestly, or something like that, and then begin to explore the possibility for themselves later on maybe, etc.

I get it though, and I don't think it's right to teach any child absolutes either, etc, as part of being a child should be allowing them to be open to any or all possibilities, and fully explore/evaluate them for themselves, etc.

But regardless of what I think, it doesn't shock me at all that people are indoctrinating their children/grandchildren in whatever they believe (or don't believe) pretty much everywhere, etc. And my only hope is that those children will be allowed to think for themselves at some point, which is what these children are right now being robbed of, etc, but I would also like to note, that I this also applies to some christian families as well, etc.

But regardless of what I might think or feel about that, or any of it, etc, it doesn't at all surprise or shock me at all, because I both know, and expect, for it to be going on and/or happening everywhere in the world, etc, so I don't understand why you guys are so shocked by it, etc. I might think it's not exactly right, but it's to be expected, etc.

And if you guys don't already know this, then you need to wake up/take another look around, because it shouldn't at all surprise you even one bit, that this is going on and happening everywhere, etc. And it's his family, and not ours, and so we don't have any kind of authority over them, but people like @Bradskii does right now currently, etc. You also have authority within your own individual families, and should teach them what you think, or how you would like them to think, etc.

Anyway, God Bless.

What you're failing to realize is that what @Bradskii is saying, and apparently wanting praise and a pat on the back for---as in "job well done there, ol' pal, ol' chum!"----"is" advice to a family member that he somehow thinks he's going to receive accolades for achievement while sharing his atheistic moral platitudes on a particular kind of public forum.

Then, he's "non-plussed" because he didn't get the audience applause he thinks he deserves but DEMANDS Christians recognize as 'good' advice.

For the life of me, I don't think there's much difference between his advice and that of, say, Nietzsche.

It's not an issue of whether or not he has a personal right to tell his grandson what he thinks is true and best. That's not it. It never was.

No, the issue is that he's decided to divulge that bit of personal info HERE and he's going to get kick-back on it for being philosophically insufficient. But is he "f-f-f-free" to tell his family what he thinks? Of course. That's not in dispute.

Neogaia777 · Thursday at 5:55 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
What you're failing to realize is that what @Bradskii is saying, and apparently wanting praise and a pat on the back for---as in "job well done there, ol' pal, ol' chum!"----"is" advice to a family member that he somehow thinks he's going to receive accolades for achievement while sharing his atheistic moral platitudes on a particular kind of public forum.

Then, he's "non-plussed" because he didn't get the audience applause he thinks he deserves but DEMANDS Christians recognize as 'good' advice.

For the life of me, I don't think there's much difference between his advice and that of, say, Nietzsche.

It's not an issue of whether or not he has a personal right to tell his grandson what he thinks is true and best. That's not it. It never was.

No, the issue is that he's decided to divulge that bit of personal info HERE and he's going to get kick-back on it for being philosophically insufficient. But is he "f-f-f-free" to tell his family what he thinks? Of course. That's not in dispute.

Or maybe he/he's just had a few too many. We really don't know, etc.

I did kinda confront him about it just a minute ago you know?

Anyway, God Bless.

AV1611VET · Thursday at 5:57 AM

Neogaia777 said:
The reason I didn't react the same way you guys did, is because I'm not at all surprised by it, like the rest of you were, etc.

What's your evaluation of what he said?

You guys have spent a while patting him on the back.

How about those who don't want to pat him on the back because they think what he said was blasphemous?

Do we get the same respect and consideration as well?

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 5:59 AM

Bradskii said:
Obviously not exactly word for word. What was specific was 'there is no second chance'. That plus 'dress rehearsal' would be pretty much verbatim.

Is there a God? I don't believe so. Is there some sort of afterlife? I don't believe so. Those matters are up to the individual. Are there Pearly Gates, 72 virgins or a 6,000 year old flat planet? No, there isn't. Absolutely there isn't. There is no question about it. It's not up for debate.

Well, the last item actually is, as there are enough people in this very forum who have such limited knowledge of basic scientific principles for there to be threads on the very matter popping up constantly. And I guess there are some who think there are actual Gates. And people who think that Ark was real, fairies live at the bottom of the garden and we used to ride around on dinosaurs. What can I say? What I will never say is that I don't believe any of that and it's up to the individual.

Just for the record, I don't really think I have ONLY a limited knowledge of, as you specifically said, basic scientific principles. And I won't take it from anyone that I somehow do.

That's what education has afforded me, and if people want to go round and round on the matter, they will get whacked.

AV1611VET · Thursday at 6:01 AM

Bradskii said:
My grandson's mother and her sibling (my kids in other words) didn't know I was an atheist until at least my daughter's late teens.

But you sure let your grandson know, didn't you?

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 6:04 AM

Hans Blaster said:
Glad to see you found someone to play with while I was waiting for my new computer to show up.

Let's hope your new computer can play you-tube videos.................................. :dontcare:

Neogaia777 · Thursday at 6:04 AM

AV1611VET said:
What's your evaluation of what he said?

Some of it I thought was good sound advice, and I just chose not to comment on the other parts at the time, but just let it go, but I did confront him about it just a few minutes ago though?

AV1611VET said:
You guys have spent a while patting him on the back.

I try to comment on what's good or positive about people's posts, when and where I can.

AV1611VET said:
How about those who don't want to pat him on the back because they think what he said was blasphemous?

I assume you're referring about the part about what he said to his grandson, etc. Did you think all of it was blasphemous?

AV1611VET said:
Do we get the same respect and consideration as well?

Yes, you do. I love all of you guys the same, etc. I'm sorry I haven't gone back to comment on your post yet, etc. I've been meaning to, but just haven't got around to it yet, so, sorry, k. I'll try to go back and get to it soon, k.

God Bless.

AV1611VET · Thursday at 6:05 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
... a pat on the back ...

LOL

You ninja'd me!

Neogaia777 · Thursday at 6:06 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
Yeah, I see that now. You did good. Thanks for the follow up, Neogaia!

The truth is, Bradskii is here because he was already non-plussed about Christianity before he ever stepped foot on Christian Forums, and he wants Christians to receive his measures of 're-education.' As far as he's concerned, it's not optional. Plus, he's old and bored.

He's a devout atheist still right now, so it's to be expected, etc.

Anyway, God Bless.

Bradskii · Thursday at 6:20 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
...he somehow thinks he's going to receive accolades for achievement while sharing his atheistic moral platitudes on a particular kind of public forum.

Mm. Digging another hole now.

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 6:23 AM

Bradskii said:
Mm. Digging another hole now.

Bradskii · Thursday at 6:25 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
Yeah, I see that now. You did good. Thanks for the follow up, Neogaia!

The truth is, Bradskii is here because he was already non-plussed about Christianity before he ever stepped foot on Christian Forums, and he wants Christians to receive his measures of 're-education.' As far as he's concerned, it's not optional. Plus, he's old and bored.

Hey, buddy. I've had enough of the personal stuff. You've now crossed a line, so cut it out.

Bradskii · Thursday at 6:28 AM

2PhiloVoid said:
Just for the record, I don't really think I have ONLY a limited knowledge of, as you specifically said, basic scientific principles.

If you think the world is flat and 6,000 years old then I'll be astonished. But if so then I'll definitely include you in that group who does.

AV1611VET · Thursday at 6:28 AM

Neogaia777 said:
Some of it I thought was good sound advice,

From Post 108, here's his good sound advice:

'So make the best of this one, treat others as you would wish to be treated, do your best to limit your mistakes and learn from those you make.'

What if his grandson would have replied, "But those are filthy rags"?

How would YOU have taken that?

Note this [advice] from the Bible:

Mic 6:6 ¶ Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lu 18:9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Ac 5:1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

These guys might impress the tar out of an atheist, but not God.

Bradskii · Thursday at 6:31 AM

AV1611VET said:
But you sure let your grandson know, didn't you?

Yeah, I did. Why do you ask? Do you want a list of family members who were aware and those that weren't?

Neogaia777 · Thursday at 6:34 AM

AV1611VET said:
From Post 108, here's his good sound advice:

'So make the best of this one, treat others as you would wish to be treated, do your best to limit your mistakes and learn from those you make.'

What if his grandson would have replied, "But those are filthy rags"?

How would YOU have taken that?

Note this [advice] from the Bible:

Mic 6:6 ¶ Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lu 18:9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Ac 5:1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

These guys might impress the tar out of an atheist, but not God.

And I'm not God, and think I am called to treat everyone else in a way that shows that I know I am not God, etc.

And I confronted him about those "filthy rags" just a few minutes ago, etc. I'm pretty sure he knows where I stand on that now, etc. We cleared the matter up between the two of us I think, etc. Or it was sufficient enough for me anyway, etc.

God Bless.

Religiosity as an advantageous trait

Old Soul

Under the Southern Cross I stand...

Old Soul

Under the Southern Cross I stand...

What goes around comes around!!!

Old Soul

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

What goes around comes around!!!

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

What goes around comes around!!!

Old Soul

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Old Soul

Under the Southern Cross I stand...

What goes around comes around!!!

Under the Southern Cross I stand...

Under the Southern Cross I stand...

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Under the Southern Cross I stand...

Old Soul

Similar threads