WATER BAPTISM ISN'T FOR US

A New Dawn · Jul 18, 2026

Dan Perez said:
And my last name Perez is in. NEH 11:4 and in. verse 6. and in. Matt 1;3 and in. Gen 38:29

You ned to read 2 COR 3:13-16.

And I can not believe that you asked if I was JEWISH. !!

dan p

The reason I asked is because you seem to be breaking things in the Bible into pieces and suggesting that different people groups get different parts of the gospel and different salvations. We are all one body in the body of Christ. The Jews aren’t saved differently than the gentiles are saved. We are all saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

And instead of telling me to read 2 Corinthians 3:13-16, tell me WHY you want me to read it so I don’t have to read your mind.

A New Dawn · Jul 18, 2026

Aristarkos said:
Doesn't he say why in vs. 17 of 1 Cor.? "For Christ sent me not to baptize...". Paul was the Apostle of the gentiles (Rom. 11:13) and was not sent to baptize... So why does everybody give so much importance to water baptism (1) while Paul says he wasn't sent to do so?

Aristarkos
___________
(1) The only baptism humans can do is water baptism. I'm not talking about being baptized into his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.

Maybe you can finish giving me the scripture reference so I can look it up and understand your reasoning.

But MOST Christians focus on baptism because that is what Christ commanded us to do in Matthew 28, as part of making disciples of all nations.

A New Dawn · Jul 18, 2026

Dan Perez said:
And in Acts 1 :5 For John indeed BAPTIZED WITH WATER //. HYDOR is the word for WATER, But you will be BAPTIZED with HOLY SPIRIT

NOT //. OU. is a DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , not many of the days after !!

AN this mens that WATER BAPTISM. is out and BAPTISM OF HOLY SPIRIT is in !!

Read MARK 16:16 MEANS and give me your thoughts. ??

dan p

Dan, you have posted and reposted this dozens of times is this thread and you don’t seem to want to respond to OUR response to it.

There are two baptisms. Baptism by water and baptism by the Holy Spirit. We, as humans, can only baptize by water. ONLY GOD can baptize with the Holy Spirit because that is HIS domain. And yet, even though we are baptized by Holy Spirit when we are made new creatures in Christ, WE ARE STILL TOLD TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER.

Baptism with water is done BECAUSE we have been baptized with the Holy Spirit. We do it because Christ told us to. We do it to identify to the world that we belong to Christ.

There is nothing more to be said. You suggesting that we don’t need to be baptized by water flies in the face of what we have been commanded by Christ to do.

Aristarkos · Jul 18, 2026

prodromos said:
That is news to me. Miracles often occur in the Eastern Orthodox Church through holy men and women. Do they not happen in your church?

No they don't. When you read what the Holy Spirit did in the days the Kingdom of Heaven was still preached, non of that happens now. I never saw people raising the dead, or suddenly speak in different languages — I don't mean uttering unarticulated sounds, anybody can do that — nor prophesy or laying on the hands on a cripple and make him heap, or get bitten by a poisonous snake and just shake it of. That is what it means to get the holy spirit, not a miracle like someone who was very sick suddenly got better. These things happen even with unbelievers.

Aristarkos

Aristarkos · Jul 18, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Maybe you can finish giving me the scripture reference so I can look it up and understand your reasoning.

But MOST Christians focus on baptism because that is what Christ commanded us to do in Matthew 28, as part of making disciples of all nations.

What MOST people think is true isn't necessarily true, is it? Numbers don't make a mistake right. You're talking about the great command that Christ suposidly gave to the gentile Christians. But he gave it to the Jews, just see:

Mat. 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Amen.

This was never given to the gentile church, but it still appropriated it. If this great commandment was so important, find one single sample in Scripture where anybody does this. You will find there is not a single Scripture where anybody gets baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Neither is said anywhere in Scripture what the things were He commanded them. Paul on the other hand talks about the baptism that gives much more than water on the head, that in his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.

Aristarkos

Lukaris · Jul 18, 2026

Aristarkos said:
What MOST people think is true isn't necessarily true, is it? Numbers don't make a mistake right. You're talking about the great command that Christ suposidly gave to the gentile Christians. But he gave it to the Jews, just see:

Mat. 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Amen.

This was never given to the gentile church, but it still appropriated it. If this great commandment was so important, find one single sample in Scripture where anybody does this. You will find there is not a single Scripture where anybody gets baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Neither is said anywhere in Scripture what the things were He commanded them. Paul on the other hand talks about the baptism that gives much more than water on the head, that in his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.

Aristarkos

In 1 Corinthians 11 & 12, Paul affirms the early sacraments of the Eucharist and Baptism in the early Church. These were already in play ( or maybe I should say Paul established them) & he is affirming the fulfillment of the work of the Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:12-14).

Paul raised Eutychus before 60 AD ( Acts 20:9-12) in his ministry to the Greeks. The Corinthian Church was established before 60 AD and Paul affirms healings & miracles among spiritual gifts ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-11, see verses 9 & 10 in particular).

Paul says the same words the Lord said to the apostles in regards to the Eucharist ( see 1 Corinthians 11:23- 29 & Luke 22:17-19). Paul and Luke were fellow evangelists. Why would baptism be any different in its own logic?

A New Dawn · Jul 18, 2026

Aristarkos said:
What MOST people think is true isn't necessarily true, is it? Numbers don't make a mistake right. You're talking about the great command that Christ suposidly gave to the gentile Christians. But he gave it to the Jews, just see:

Mat. 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Amen.

This was never given to the gentile church, but it still appropriated it. If this great commandment was so important, find one single sample in Scripture where anybody does this. You will find there is not a single Scripture where anybody gets baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Neither is said anywhere in Scripture what the things were He commanded them. Paul on the other hand talks about the baptism that gives much more than water on the head, that in his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.

Aristarkos

Why do people read things and have trouble comprehending them when they are translated into plain English?

Verse 19 says to go to all nations. That is the world. That is Israel PLUS everyone else. Jesus, himself, told the disciples that the gospel was to go out into the world, and for them to take it. And when they make new disciples, to Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Verse 20 tells them what spreading the gospel entails. It tells them to teach them to observe ALL things they have been commanded (including that command right there) and that God will be with us always.

Why is that so hard to understand? And how do you know it was never done in the NT church? The Bible is silent on the matter. And maybe, just maybe, since they were commanded to baptize in that manner, they didn’t feel the need to keep repeating it.

What is the alternative? To ignore a clear command given by Christ?

And the same question to you as posed to Dan P: Is it your contention that there is a different salvation for the Jews than there is for the Gentiles that instruction like that would only be given to one people group?

Dan Perez · Jul 18, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Dan, you have posted and reposted this dozens of times is this thread and you don’t seem to want to respond to OUR response to it.

There are two baptisms. Baptism by water and baptism by the Holy Spirit. We, as humans, can only baptize by water. ONLY GOD can baptize with the Holy Spirit because that is HIS domain. And yet, even though we are baptized by Holy Spirit when we are made new creatures in Christ, WE ARE STILL TOLD TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER.

Baptism with water is done BECAUSE we have been baptized with the Holy Spirit. We do it because Christ told us to. We do it to identify to the world that we belong to Christ.

There is nothing more to be said. You suggesting that we don’t need to be baptized by water flies in the face of what we have been commanded by Christ to do.

And lets start anew ??

# DO YOU HAVE a verse where Paul says all have to be WATER // HYDOR baptize anyone ??

And read EPH 4:5 that says ONE LORD , ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM !!

Need verse for that ONE // HEIS means only ONE ??

WITH A VERSE ??

As there are about 7 different words for BAPTISM. !!

And one is in. 1 Peter 3:21. and please say what this verse means ?? very easy. ??

AND. where is that verse that says to WATER //. HYDOR by PAUL ?????

dan p

Dan Perez · Jul 18, 2026

A New Dawn said:
The reason I asked is because you seem to be breaking things in the Bible into pieces and suggesting that different people groups get different parts of the gospel and different salvations. We are all one body in the body of Christ. The Jews aren’t saved differently than the gentiles are saved. We are all saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

And instead of telling me to read 2 Corinthians 3:13-16, tell me WHY you want me to read it so I don’t have to read your mind.

An will do it tomorrow or on MONDAY as I. preparing Sunday ADULT CLASS. as I am. the teacher. !!

AND BE TEACHING ON. MARK 16:16. wish you could be there !!

dan p

prodromos · Jul 18, 2026

Dan Perez said:
As there are about 7 different words for BAPTISM. !!

You clearly don't know Greek.

prodromos · Jul 18, 2026

Dan Perez said:
An will do it tomorrow or on MONDAY as I. preparing Sunday ADULT CLASS. as I am. the teacher. !!

Lord have mercy!

Carl Emerson · Jul 18, 2026

Aristarkos said:
When you read what the Holy Spirit did in the days the Kingdom of Heaven was still preached, non of that happens now.

Maybe not in your domain - but I can confess to having witnessed the signs of the Kingdom first hand and in recent times.

Aristarkos · Jul 19, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Why do people read things and have trouble comprehending them when they are translated into plain English?

You don't say....

A New Dawn said:
Verse 19 says to go to all nations. That is the world. That is Israel PLUS everyone else. Jesus, himself, told the disciples that the gospel was to go out into the world, and for them to take it. And when they make new disciples, to Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Which gospel are you talking about, Paul's? He preached the gospel of the uncircumsision. The everyone else you made up, it doesn't say anywhere "ye" and "anyone else". Not only do we read nowhere about the 11 baptizing this way, more importantly Paul who was pointed to go to the gentiles never did it.

A New Dawn said:
Verse 20 tells them what spreading the gospel entails. It tells them to teach them to observe ALL things they have been commanded (including that command right there) and that God will be with us always.

Well, what are they? They where not written, so we know nothing about it.

A New Dawn said:
Why is that so hard to understand? And how do you know it was never done in the NT church? The Bible is silent on the matter. And maybe, just maybe, since they were commanded to baptize in that manner, they didn’t feel the need to keep repeating it.

You're serious? "They" maybe maybe didn't feel the need? Saying you did something at least once isn't repeating and they didn't even did that. You're telling me that this majorly important commandment was never even written once when done? I don't believe that.

A New Dawn said:
What is the alternative? To ignore a clear command given by Christ?

Did you sell all your goods and shared the proceeds with those who don't have?

A New Dawn said:
And the same question to you as posed to Dan P: Is it your contention that there is a different salvation for the Jews than there is for the Gentiles that instruction like that would only be given to one people group?

No, there is a different good message for the Jews and for the gentiles as Paul clearly states in Galatians:

Gal. 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Aristarkos

prodromos · Jul 19, 2026

Aristarkos said:
You're telling me that this majorly important commandment was never even written once when done? I don't believe that.

Most of the Apostles wrote nothing. If it wasn't for Paul, the New Testament would hardly tell us anything about the established Church.

Aristarkos said:
Did you sell all your goods and shared the proceeds with those who don't have?

Where is that commanded?

Aristarkos said:
No, there is a different good message for the Jews and for the gentiles as Paul clearly states in Galatians:

That doesn't say the message was different, only that Paul preached to the Gentiles primarily while Peter preached to the Jews primarily. The Gospel message was the same.

Aristarkos · Jul 19, 2026

Lukaris said:
In 1 Corinthians 11 & 12, Paul affirms the early sacraments of the Eucharist and Baptism in the early Church. These were already in play ( or maybe I should say Paul established them) & he is affirming the fulfillment of the work of the Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:12-14).

You did read my pevious posts right?

Aristarkos said:
Paul on the other hand talks about the baptism that gives much more than water on the head, that in his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.

Baptism is very important, but not pouring water over someones head.

Lukaris said:
Paul raised Eutychus before 60 AD ( Acts 20:9-12) in his ministry to the Greeks. The Corinthian Church was established before 60 AD and Paul affirms healings & miracles among spiritual gifts ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-11, see verses 9 & 10 in particular).

That's what I said, around 70AD when the Romans booted Israel out of their country and burned down the temple, it all stopped. If there was any church now on this planet that could raise the dead it would be world news 24/7. And what do we hear? Crickets.

Lukaris said:
Paul says the same words the Lord said to the apostles in regards to the Eucharist ( see 1 Corinthians 11:23- 29 & Luke 22:17-19). Paul and Luke were fellow evangelists. Why would baptism be any different in its own logic?

Because this was before the long Israeli lo-ammi, before the destruction of the temple, before the 12 stopped preaching the Kingdom of Heaven. Their refusal stopped what "Paul" describes in Heb. 6:
"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world (Gr. aion) to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Aristarkos

Aristarkos · Jul 19, 2026

prodromos said:
Most of the Apostles wrote nothing. If it wasn't for Paul, the New Testament would hardly tell us anything about the established Church.

And the same Paul says he wasn't sent to baptize...

prodromos said:
Where is that commanded?

Mat. 19:21 "... go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." this is a commandment, it has the same language as the great commandment "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

prodromos said:
That doesn't say the message was different, only that Paul preached to the Geniles primarily while Peter preached to the Jews primarily. The Gospel message was the same.

You didn't read Paul's letters did you? Paul didn't write his letters on his own, he was pressed by the Holy Spirit to write these things, like all the others. You really believe the Holy Spirit wasn't aware what Paul was writing? You really believe that the Holy Spirit would wast everybody's time by using all these different words to say the same thing? If uncircumcision was the same as circumcision why bother with these words? Why would Paul and Peter even talk about their gospels? If it's all the same it is far less important then the great commandment isn't it? Yet the first is mentioned and the latter is not.

Remember what Paul said in 2 Tim. 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Saying that everything is the same doesn't do that, does it?

Aristarkos

prodromos · Jul 19, 2026

Aristarkos said:
If there was any church now on this planet that could raise the dead it would be world news 24/7. And what do we hear? Crickets.

It isn't world news because it is not being exposed to the world. The families affected by these miracles have no desire to become the center of a media circus, nor do they wish to deal with the unbelievers who will claim it was all fake anyway. They are deeply personal experiences that the recipients don't want to have put under a microscope. We humbly accept God's great mercy to us and move on with our lives.

prodromos · Jul 19, 2026

Aristarkos said:
And the same Paul says he wasn't sent to baptize...

He left that to his companions, although he did still baptise some

Aristarkos said:
Mat. 19:21 "... go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." this is a commandment, it has the same language as the great commandment "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

The former was spoken to a single person, while the latter was spoken to the Apostles.

Aristarkos said:
You didn't read Paul's letters did you?

This is he kind of statement that gets threads locked. Don't be a jerk.

Aristarkos said:
If uncircumcision was the same as circumcision why bother with these words? Why would Paul and Peter even talk about their gospels?

"Uncircumcision" simply means the Gentiles. "Circumcision" means the Jews. That is plainly obvious from the Galatians passage you quoted before. Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles while Peter was Apostle to the Jews, although they both preached to the other groups. This does not say they had different Gospel teaching for each group. That is you reading your own personal views into the text.

Aristarkos · Jul 19, 2026

prodromos said:
It isn't world news because it is not being exposed to the world. The families affected by these miracles have no desire to become the center of a media circus, nor do they wish to deal with the unbelievers who will claim it was all fake anyway. They are deeply personal experiences that the recipients don't want to have put under a microscope. We humbly accept God's great mercy to us and move on with our lives.

So you're telling me that the same "church" who say the great commandment is to teach all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is to shy to show the great deeds of the Lord? They want to keep it behind closed doors? Because their might be unbelievers? Thank God this didn't stop Paul, who ended up practically alone:

2 Tim 1:15 "This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. "
2 Tim 4:10 "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world ..."
2 Tim 4:16 "At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge."

The reason we hear noting about it is because in the current dispensation it just doesn't happen.

Aristarkos

prodromos · Jul 19, 2026

Aristarkos said:
The reason we hear noting about it is because in the current dispensation it just doesn't happen.

That isn't my experience.

WATER BAPTISM ISN'T FOR US

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