Religiosity as an advantageous trait

jasperr · Jul 5, 2026

I wonder if the propensity or otherwise for believing that there is an entity or a person / persons outside the realm of people we can see who "pulls" or has pulled the strings behind the scenes ,as it were -ie religiosity in its varied forms....

I wonder if this propensity in the individual or group can be considered as conferring an evolutionary advantage ?

I imagine there could be many possible ways it might confer an advantage ,and possibly a disadvantage.

I imagine ,at the outset (and fairly obviously) that it would promote social cohesion insomuch as it provides communal stories as a focal point.

If the religion occupies the highest positions in the society (as a priestly caste) then the lower echelons can advance their cause (and their chances of finding a mate) by acquiescing with that belief structure,genuinely or not.

But these are just my raw hypotheses.I am sure there are other angles to it ,even if it is not a subject I have heard taken up before or one that had previously crossed my mind.

Unqualified · Jul 5, 2026

Religiousity is religion as a way of life. Institutions, set ways, no God. Religion for the sake of religion It errs from the truth. It is communal and peaceful for those who agree. Do you want one world religion? Do you want an opiate for the masses. What do you hope to accomplish with you advantage’.

jasperr · Jul 5, 2026

Unqualified said:
Religiousity is religion as a way of life. Institutions, set ways, no God. Religion for the sake of religion It errs from the truth. It is communal and peaceful for those who agree. Do you want one world religion? Do you want an opiate for the masses. What do you hope to accomplish with you advantage’.

I was asking whether or not it can confer an evolutionary advantage.I did not state that I wished to "accomplish" anything with it and I don't understand why you would ask that.

To your "opiate"questions the answer would be no but the questions seem to be rhetorical where only one answer is acceptable.

As for your "one world religion" question ,I would not have thought it a good idea but it does seem the logical aim of some religions ,whatever about the practicality.

Bradskii · Jul 5, 2026

jasperr said:
I imagine ,at the outset (and fairly obviously) that it would promote social cohesion insomuch as it provides communal stories as a focal point.

I'm with you here. I think that anyone holding to any given religion might also agree that the 'wrong' religions evolved for just that reason.

Unqualified · Jul 6, 2026

jasperr said:
I was asking whether or not it can confer an evolutionary advantage.I did not state that I wished to "accomplish" anything with it and I don't understand why you would ask that.

To your "opiate"questions the answer would be no but the questions seem to be rhetorical where only one answer is acceptable.

As for your "one world religion" question ,I would not have thought it a good idea but it does seem the logical aim of some religions ,whatever about the practicality.

I think it’s what already is happening. But I don’t believe in evolution anyway. Confer a positive trait’…. To better mankind, make him more socially cohesive. Something a genetic engineer would do to ensure survival in the future, through the trials of aliens and growing unrest and lack of unity. Maybe we could all be one party and on the same page spiritually so there would be less wars, no terrorism. We could live in harmony and find a better mate, so there would be less divorce. So we could have a proper theocracy which everybody wants.

do you suggest implanting embryos of the higher’ humans into the more docile yet strong females?
why don’t we have genetic farms for raising these traits in people. Evolution takes a long long time, clones,
spiritual guidance for the uninformed to make better babies.

who is pulling the strings of evolution. Nobody. A happy earth provides happy people. I don’t think we have time for evolution.

Larniavc · Jul 6, 2026

Unqualified said:
We could live in harmony and find a better mate, so there would be less divorce. So we could have a proper theocracy which everybody wants.

I think you are underestimating the propensity of people to find differences even when they are of the same religion.

What you describe has never been reflected in reality (apart from the religions where they off themselves en mass).

Ophiolite · Jul 6, 2026

Mana

jasperr said:
I wonder if the propensity or otherwise for believing that there is an entity or a person / persons outside the realm of people we can see who "pulls" or has pulled the strings behind the scenes ,as it were -ie religiosity in its varied forms....

I wonder if this propensity in the individual or group can be considered as conferring an evolutionary advantage ?

I imagine there could be many possible ways it might confer an advantage ,and possibly a disadvantage.

I imagine ,at the outset (and fairly obviously) that it would promote social cohesion insomuch as it provides communal stories as a focal point.

If the religion occupies the highest positions in the society (as a priestly caste) then the lower echelons can advance their cause (and their chances of finding a mate) by acquiescing with that belief structure,genuinely or not.

But these are just my raw hypotheses.I am sure there are other angles to it ,even if it is not a subject I have heard taken up before or one that had previously crossed my mind.

Managing people in a business setting is often a good proxy for personal dynamics in the larger social and cultural setting. One aspect of management theory, as practised by managers and supervisors though not necessarily by theoreticians, is to focus on the strengths and weaknesses of employees. I think this is often a mistake. I find it more productive to think of characteristics whose value is context dependent. An effusive, up-beat, cheerful disposition is great for a tour guide, not so good for a funeral director.

Your question implicitly recognises that dichotomy of value, or more accurately a spectrum of values from the positively beneficial to definitively dangerous. Also keep in mind that evolution acts on populations, not individuals. Ultimately, as a social animal, humans require something that will give them a sense of belonging. (Unless they are a psychopath, in which case they just need a sense of ownership.)

I think you will find a vast literature on the role of religion in society, considered from all conceivable angles. I'm not quite sure how you managed to miss it.

jasperr · Jul 6, 2026

Unqualified said:
I think it’s what already is happening. But I don’t believe in evolution anyway. Confer a positive trait’…. To better mankind, make him more socially cohesive. Something a genetic engineer would do to ensure survival in the future, through the trials of aliens and growing unrest and lack of unity. Maybe we could all be one party and on the same page spiritually so there would be less wars, no terrorism. We could live in harmony and find a better mate, so there would be less divorce. So we could have a proper theocracy which everybody wants.

do you suggest implanting embryos of the higher’ humans into the more docile yet strong females?
why don’t we have genetic farms for raising these traits in people. Evolution takes a long long time, clones,
spiritual guidance for the uninformed to make better babies.

who is pulling the strings of evolution. Nobody. A happy earth provides happy people. I don’t think we have time for evolution.

You state that you do not "believe in evolution".
I don't think anyone does"believe" in it.

The point is that it is a model that explains the observations that have been made to a degree of certitude that is acceptable to nearly all the scientific community and most of the general population where free thought is permitted.

It may be instructive to note the parts of the world where the general public is more skeptical of the positions of evolutionary theory.

Theocracies like Afghanistan , are the least likely to agree with those positions and USA is the least likely among the industrialized or post enlightenment nations to do so(possibly reflective of its bizarre selection of political leaders in recent times)

Jerry N. · Jul 6, 2026

I’m too lazy to look it up, but studies have found that people who believe in a divine being and form their lives around their belief have statistically better mental health and handle adversity better. It doesn’t seem to matter which religion, as long as it is not militant or a cult. The studies seem to indicate that it has a lot to do with prayer, meditation, and community, but the key seems to be believing in a higher being and focusing less on self. Non-believers that focus on others and have strong family and social bonds do nearly as well. It is only a statistical difference, and far from a huge difference. There is no reason to think it is biological, but that doesn’t mean it is not a factor.

jasperr · Jul 6, 2026

Ophiolite said:
Mana

Managing people in a business setting is often a good proxy for personal dynamics in the larger social and cultural setting. One aspect of management theory, as practised by managers and supervisors though not necessarily by theoreticians, is to focus on the strengths and weaknesses of employees. I think this is often a mistake. I find it more productive to think of characteristics whose value is context dependent. An effusive, up-beat, cheerful disposition is great for a tour guide, not so good for a funeral director.

Your question implicitly recognises that dichotomy of value, or more accurately a spectrum of values from the positively beneficial to definitively dangerous. Also keep in mind that evolution acts on populations, not individuals. Ultimately, as a social animal, humans require something that will give them a sense of belonging. (Unless they are a psychopath, in which case they just need a sense of ownership.)

I think you will find a vast literature on the role of religion in society, considered from all conceivable angles. I'm not quite sure how you managed to miss it.

Well I have.

I have to be content with the limited harvest of knowledge I have picked up.

I think my old mate Socrates "boasted" that his philosopher contempories were very dashing in their skills at persuading their audiences practically anything.(oh, to have been in those audiences in Athens then) but that he was content to have it known that ,if he knew nothing then still he knew that he knew nothing.

A very heroic (Cristlike?)figure as depicted in Plato's Apologia refusing to compromise his beliefs but rather drinking the hemlock ,although I may have heard more cynical assessments that I don't recall just now.

Ophiolite · Jul 18, 2026

jasperr said:
I think my old mate Socrates "boasted" that his philosopher contempories were very dashing in their skills at persuading their audiences practically anything.(oh, to have been in those audiences in Athens then) but that he was content to have it known that ,if he knew nothing then still he knew that he knew nothing

But you will notice that he shared that knowledge with others. Would you have preferred that I remain silent about the (probably) extensive literature on the subject?

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2026

An engineer, a physicist, a mathematician, and a philosopher are hiking through Scotland when they see a lone black sheep on a hill.

The engineer says, "Ah, the sheep in Scotland are black!"

The physicist corrects him, "Well, some of the sheep in Scotland are black."

The mathematician sighs, "No, at least one of the sheep in Scotland is black."

The philosopher turns to them and says, "Well, on one side, anyway."

CIA Agent #1029 · Jul 18, 2026

Societies where people believe in God make strong warriors. Societies where people disbelieve in God make cowardly warriors. This is the difference in believing in an afterlife and not, and this promotes all societies who at least believe in God and the afterlife.

Isn't God's wisdom amazing?

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2026

CIA Agent #1029 said:
Isn't God's wisdom amazing?

Indeed it is!

Ps 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.

2PhiloVoid · Jul 18, 2026

jasperr said:
I wonder if the propensity or otherwise for believing that there is an entity or a person / persons outside the realm of people we can see who "pulls" or has pulled the strings behind the scenes ,as it were -ie religiosity in its varied forms....

I wonder if this propensity in the individual or group can be considered as conferring an evolutionary advantage ?

I imagine there could be many possible ways it might confer an advantage ,and possibly a disadvantage.

I imagine ,at the outset (and fairly obviously) that it would promote social cohesion insomuch as it provides communal stories as a focal point.

If the religion occupies the highest positions in the society (as a priestly caste) then the lower echelons can advance their cause (and their chances of finding a mate) by acquiescing with that belief structure,genuinely or not.

But these are just my raw hypotheses.I am sure there are other angles to it ,even if it is not a subject I have heard taken up before or one that had previously crossed my mind.

Robert Sapolsky and other neuroscientists and psychologists have studied this issue and found that there are a few moderate psychological benefits of being a part of a 1960's rock band called, The Monkeys. .... pa-tum!

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2026

2PhiloVoid said:
Robert Sapolsky and other neuroscientists and psychologists have studied this issue and found that there are a few moderate psychological benefits of being a part of a 1960's rock band called, The Monkeys. .... pa-tum!

I'm a Believer!

Free2bHeretical4Him! · Jul 18, 2026

AV1611VET said:
I'm a Believer!

“… I couldn’t leave her if I tried …”

Free2bHeretical4Him! · Jul 18, 2026

CIA Agent #1029 said:
Societies where people believe in God make strong warriors. Societies where people disbelieve in God make cowardly warriors. This is the difference in believing in an afterlife and not, and this promotes all societies who at least believe in God and the afterlife.

Isn't God's wisdom amazing?

This statement simply is unverifiable and quite illogical …

CIA Agent #1029 · Jul 18, 2026

Free2bHeretical4Him! said:
This statement simply is unverifiable and quite illogical …

If you believe this is your one and only life, why would you accept being appointed on the front lines?

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2026

CIA Agent #1029 said:
If you believe this is your one and only life, why would you accept being appointed on the front lines?

There are no atheists in foxholes.

Religiosity as an advantageous trait

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