-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
WATER BAPTISM ISN'T FOR US
- Thread starter DougE
- Start date
- Mar 18, 2004
- 72,206
- 8,634
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
So are you Jewish? Either God meant for the gospel to go out into the world (the gentiles) or it was meant to stay amongst the Jews. Which is it. You can’t have it both ways.
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2004
- 72,206
- 8,634
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
You did read 1 Corinthians 1:15 before you spoke about it, right? Paul was saying he was glad he didn’t baptize people (except the two he DID baptize) because he didn’t want people saying they were baptized in his (Paul’s) name. Not for any other reason.
You know you are disproving your own argument, right? You are pointing all the scriptures that speak about salvation but not about baptism. Yet you contend that one has to be baptized in order to be saved.
Upvote
0
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
- May 30, 2024
- 5,213
- 3,507
- 77
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
I agree. I tried many times (in vain) to get an answer from Dan to the question of what baptism did Paul baptise Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanas with if not water. It cannot be the baptism of the Holy Spirit, because that baptism is performed by God. One Christian cannot baptise another Christian in the Holy Spirit.
Upvote
0
Aristarkos
Servant of the Lord
- Feb 2, 2021
- 157
- 11
- Country
- Netherlands
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Doesn't he say why in vs. 17 of 1 Cor.? "For Christ sent me not to baptize...". Paul was the Apostle of the gentiles (Rom. 11:13) and was not sent to baptize... So why does everybody give so much importance to water baptism (1) while Paul says he wasn't sent to do so?
Aristarkos
___________
(1) The only baptism humans can do is water baptism. I'm not talking about being baptized into his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.
Upvote
0
Dan Perez
Well-Known Member
- Dec 13, 2018
- 5,478
- 428
- 89
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
And I was water baptized when. I was about 17 years old "\!!
And when. anyone reads Rom. 10:9 reads That you should CONFESS with you mouth the LORN JESUS , and should believe
in your heart that God. RAISED hIm from DEAD you WILL BE SAVED !!
And here how I was baptized , in. 1 Cor 12:13 For even by one SPIRIT we were all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY
whether slaves or free , , and were given. to DRINK into one SPIRIT ,
And I only obey one rule is the bible that will give life and only SAVED BELIEVERS will reign with. Christ and will.
govern Gods UIVERSE \\
and GOVERN ANGELS !!
AND Gal 1 :8 we are ACCURSED if I TEACH any other GOSPEL. than. I will be accursed
And you and I have been Warned !!
dan p
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Dan Perez
Well-Known Member
- Dec 13, 2018
- 5,478
- 428
- 89
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
AND I believe that I had written about GAIUS in. Acts 19:29. that he and Paul were fellow travelers. with Paul. !!
And it seems to. me that MOST have a hard time with water baptism when. in. ACTS 1: THAT Jorhn indeed BAPTIZED
WITH WATER //. HYDOR , but you will be BAPTIZED with HOLY SPIRIT and means that WATER. // HYDOR is OUT
period !!
And read MARK 16 :16 means and will be speaking about BAPTISM. and read and then explain. what it means ??
And want your thoughts PLEASE. ??
dan p
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Dan Perez
Well-Known Member
- Dec 13, 2018
- 5,478
- 428
- 89
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
And in Acts 1 :5 For John indeed BAPTIZED WITH WATER //. HYDOR is the word for WATER, But you will be BAPTIZED with HOLY SPIRIT
NOT //. OU. is a DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , not many of the days after !!
AN this mens that WATER BAPTISM. is out and BAPTISM OF HOLY SPIRIT is in !!
Read MARK 16:16 MEANS and give me your thoughts. ??
dan p
Upvote
0
Dan Perez
Well-Known Member
- Dec 13, 2018
- 5,478
- 428
- 89
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
And read. ACTS 1:5 FIRST AND EXPLAIN what Acts. 1:5 means ??
and also read MARK 16:16 IS SAYING. ??
And in Eph 4:5 reads ONE LORD , ONE FAITH , ONE BAPTISM !!
And ONE //. HEIS. means ONE !!
And there BAPTO
And BAPTISMA
AND BAPTIZING
AN D BAPTIZED
AND BAPTISMOS
So which is the ONE BAPTISM in. Eph 4:5 ??
dan p
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Dan Perez
Well-Known Member
- Dec 13, 2018
- 5,478
- 428
- 89
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
And my last name Perez is in. NEH 11:4 and in. verse 6. and in. Matt 1;3 and in. Gen 38:29
You ned to read 2 COR 3:13-16.
And I can not believe that you asked if I was JEWISH. !!
dan p
Upvote
0
- Nov 28, 2003
- 25,427
- 17,062
- 60
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
This was referring to a specific, one off event which occurred on the day of Pentecost to the Apostles.
It does not mean that. This is simply your own personal interpretation.
Water baptism is the normal means by which a believer is united to Christ's body, which is the Church. It is actually a threefold sacrament of Baptism, Chrismation and Holy Communion. Obviously God Himself is not bound by the rules He has established, the thief on the cross being a notable exception, but this is what the Church has understood and followed from the beginning.
Upvote
0
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
- May 30, 2024
- 5,213
- 3,507
- 77
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
My thoughts are that you still haven't answered my question. Saying that Paul and Gaius were fellow travellers doesn't say what kind of baptism Paul baptised him (and Crispus and the household of Stephanas) with if not in water. You mention Acts 19:29, which indeed confirms that Gaius was one of Paul's travelling companions, but it doesn't mention baptism:
(Act 19:29) So the whole city was filled with confusion, and rushed into the theater with one accord, having seized Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians, Paul's travel companions.
Then you ask me for my thoughts on the baptism mentioned in Mark 16:16. Here it is, together with the previous verse for context:
(Mar 16:15-16 NKJV) And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
The parallel passage in Matthew says:
(Mat 28:19-20 NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
As the apostles were to do the baptising, it cannot refer to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, because one Christian, even an apostle, cannot baptise another Christian in the Holy Spirit. That is God's work.
Upvote
0
Aristarkos
Servant of the Lord
- Feb 2, 2021
- 157
- 11
- Country
- Netherlands
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Although I disagree with a lot of what Dan P says, I disagree with what you say just as well.
If you would read what is actually written in Scripture. In Mark 1:4 "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." In Luke 3:3, 4 "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."
To whom was and is Isaiah written? Isa. 1:1 "The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem..." Not to the gentiles. In 1:3"The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel doth not know..." and 1:4 "Ah sinful nation..." They (Israel) were given the Law and "... by the law is the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20.
In Acts 2:38 Peter says "... Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost", this was promised in the O.T. to Israel. Eze. 36:25, 26 "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you (baptism), and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you (remission of sins). 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit (the gift of the Holy Spirit) will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh".
I said this a couple of post above, Paul is the Apostle of the gentiles and he clearly states he was not sent to baptize, he regretted the few he did, so with this he proves that we do not need a pure Israeli ritual washing — named baptism in the N.T. — to be saved. What we need now is the baptism no human can give and follows on the faith in our hearts, baptism into his death (Rom. 6:3) or in the Spirit 1 Cor. 12:13.
Aristarkos
Upvote
0
- Nov 28, 2003
- 25,427
- 17,062
- 60
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
Others who were with Paul did the baptising.
You are forgetting Peter and Cornelius in Acts 10.
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Normal reception into the Church is Baptism, Chrismation (whereby they receive the Holy Spirit) and Holy Communion (John 6:53). In the case of Cornelius and his household, God did things differently as a witness to the Jews that the Gentiles were also to be brought into the Church, but that was an exception to the rule.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
- May 30, 2024
- 5,213
- 3,507
- 77
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
Where do we read in the Bible that Paul regretted having baptised Crispus, Gaius and the household of Stephanas? And if you say that baptism in water is "a pure Israeli ritual washing", why did Philip baptise the Ethiopian in water:
(Act 8:35-38 NKJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Upvote
0
Aristarkos
Servant of the Lord
- Feb 2, 2021
- 157
- 11
- Country
- Netherlands
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
No, I'm forgetting that at all. Peter and Cornelius were not part of Pauls gospel of the uncircumcision. A distinction Paul clearly makes in Gal. 2: 7 "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter." Those who say these are the same have fallen in the snare of the "everything-is-the-same-doctrine. Paul urges us to notice the things that differ Phil. 1:10 and they differ allright.
Did you notice that Peter had to be called three times before he was willing to go to Cornelius a gentile? Acts 10:16. Since the refusal of the Jews of their messiah, God went to the next step, grafting the wild olive branch on the olive tree. Make Israel jealous. this was already fore spoken by Moses. Deuteronomy 32:21. This had nothing to do with Paul or his gospel. Did you also notice that the Jews were upset that the Holy Spirit was poured on the gentiles? This never happened before as you can see in Acts 10:45 where the Jews were astonished by it and the argued against it to Peter in Acts 11:2.
I may certainly ask which church? Cause this is no where in Scripture, but it is in the early church writings. When Israel went into its longest "lo-ammi" period — in which they are still now — the early Christians didn't understand this. They just witnessed everything we don't see now and it all vanished around the year 70 when the Romans destroyed the nation of Israel and burned down their temple.
This is when people started to say "God says Israel, but He meant the church". The beginning of spiritualization which the churches haven't overcome.
Did you see what the people who got the holy spirit (the power of) did? You don't see that now because that dispensation stopped. As you can see from John 6:52 these were also Jews, no gentiles.
Aristarkos
Upvote
0
Aristarkos
Servant of the Lord
- Feb 2, 2021
- 157
- 11
- Country
- Netherlands
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
- Nov 28, 2003
- 25,427
- 17,062
- 60
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
That is news to me. Miracles often occur in the Eastern Orthodox Church through holy men and women. Do they not happen in your church?
Upvote
0
