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Diagram for Revelation 17

Douggg

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I made this new diagram to help understand Revelation 17 about the seven kings and ten crowns. I had made a previous diagram , but thought it was overly difficult to understand. So I made this new one. I plan on making new ones also for Revelation 12 and Revelation 13.

I color coded the text to match the image color for easy reference.


Revelation 17  heads and   horns.jpg
 

keras

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Here is my new diagram for Revelation 13
Revelation 17 makes it clear that the 'beast' will rule over the whole world. The European Union will just be a part of it.
The other ten Presidents, do not share any authority; Rev 17:13
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 17 makes it clear that the 'beast' will rule over the whole world. The European Union will just be a part of it.
The other ten Presidents, do not share any authority; Rev 17:13
The EU is the kingdom of the beast. The EU will be the dominant kingdom over the rest of the world.

The EU is the manifestation of the Roman Empire in end times. The five fallen and one is kings were kings over the ancient Roman Empire.

Regarding the ten leaders, in Revelation 17:12-13, it says...

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The ten EU leaders will hand the EU over to the beast to be dictator of it.
 
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Richard T

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Nice diagrams and topic. Forgive me if I expand on the perspective on the ten kings.

First, could the ten kings be specific large corporations? Why? because, they do not already have a kingdom. Secondly, they give the anti-Christ what he needs. What does he need? Personal data and the power to limit transactions, control media and implement his plan. Plus, they have cash and are not broke like the current nations. What kingdoms do they receive? A monopoly in their area of expertise. Most are near monopolies now, but under the anti-Christ there could be no competition. Sort of like what the King of England did to give monopoly power to the British East India Tea Company. Only that was just for the 13 colonies, the anti-Christ could give monopoly power worldwide.
It is easy to scoff at such a interpretation. But John would have no idea what a multinational trillion plus corporation was. He would label it as a kingdom is a reasonable possibility.
Most religious leaders have little knowledge of how Federalism works. If the anti-Christ is the global head then the regional powers generally need to be divided fairly equally and with a geographical way that makes sense. Most EU modeling would look more like colonialism, which would be offensive to every nation that fought for independence. No way would a system divide just ten Euro powers, and besides there are far more in the EU now. You really think Spain is capable of managing Sub-Saharan Africa? Germany the USA? France - China? But lets say that one company dominates all the internet sales by gobbling up the other regional players. They immediate now can force buying and selling online, while perhaps another company handles the distribution to stores. This type of business arrangement has to be funneled to big companies to make the global system work the way the antichrist has planned. Admittedly, this is a shift but far more plausible than the EU notion. "In recent years, the stock market's gains have been historically concentrated, with the 10 largest U.S. companies accounting for roughly 40% to over 60% of the total returns in major benchmarks like the S&P 500 Index. The world is changing and nations are becoming less and large companies more. In the end with some serious mergers, the large regional players will be folded in from around the world.

I asked google ai" Could the war In Rev. 17:14 be businesses in the marketplace?

"Yes, many modern theologians view this war as a battle for economic and marketplace control. In this interpretation, the "war" is not just fought with traditional weapons, but through a globalized financial and commercial system that forces compliance." Furthermore, "Modern Globalism (Late 20th Century to Present): In the late 1900s, theologians began applying John’s words to the brand-new phenomenon of a centralized, single global economy. With the rise of international electronic banking, corporate monopolies, and digital commerce, the original 1st-century "marketplace war" concept was adapted to describe how modern corporate and political systems can financially pressure believers on a global scale. [1, 2]"

Imagine if the defense industry merged some of the larger companies and everyone else was forced to sell or be banned. So that newly formed company could be one of the ten kings. But more important than weapons is commerce. No way the governments would ever be efficient enough to manage the control of buying and selling during the small time frame that Revelation has. Logistically too inept. Now, give that power to a monopoly company, make all sales through them and the control would be fast and effective. It is interesting to note that in the first century, early Roman trade guilds shut out Christians because they would not bow. " Early Christian writers like Victorinus (who wrote the oldest surviving commentary on Revelation around 300 AD) documented how Roman emperors used economic edicts to close Christian businesses and confiscate goods."

The EU idea is basically from leaders like Hal Lindsey and Chuck Smith. It was the Christian response to the E.E.C. and now the EU. So I asked google ai:

If i said the EU model was passe versus the business model of ten kings would that be possible?

"Yes, viewing the "ten kings as the EU" theory as passé (outdated) is entirely valid, and shifting to a global business/marketplace model is highly plausible within both modern theology and current economics."

Of course no one knows for sure and I wanted to know what alternatives ai might suggest as to who the ten kings are. (I also asked for criticism of the business model and there are some holes in the theory). Alternatives suggested include:

"If we eliminate both the 1970s EU theory and the modern corporate model, we are left with the three main ways that historical, mainstream theologians actually interpret the ten kings.
To understand who they are, you have to look at the text's defining clue in Revelation 17:12: "They have not yet received a kingdom, but for one hour they will receive authority as kings along with the beast." [1, 2]
Here are the three primary explanations for who these ten kings actually are.

1. The Geopolitical Regions Model (Global Technocracy)
This is the most popular modern alternative to the EU theory. In this view, "ten" is a literal number representing ten global superpowers or regional alliances that will divide and rule the entire planet.
  • How it works: Instead of a single European empire, the globe is divided into ten administrative zones (e.g., a North American bloc, an East Asian bloc, a Middle Eastern bloc, etc.).
  • The "Kings": The leaders of these ten regions are the "kings." They don't have traditional nationalist kingdoms yet; they rule over borderless, supranational zones. [1]
  • Why it fits: It explains how a global dictator (the Beast) could rule the entire earth simultaneously. He doesn't manage 195 individual countries; he manages ten regional governors who willingly hand their collective global authority over to him.

2. The Historical Roman Model (The Preterist View)
Many historians and traditional theologians argue that we shouldn't look to the future at all. They believe the ten kings already existed in the first century AD when John wrote the book.
  • How it works: In Hebrew and Roman literature, the number "ten" was frequently used as a round number to symbolize completeness or a specific dynasty.
  • The "Kings": These are either the first ten Emperors of Rome (starting with Julius Caesar or Augustus) or the provincial governors who ruled the ten primary provinces of the Roman Empire under Nero or Domitian. [1, 2]
  • Why it fits: It directly addresses John's immediate audience. First-century Christians were being executed by Roman governors (kings) acting on behalf of the Emperor (the Beast). To them, the war was already happening.

3. The Symbolic / Universal Model (The Idealist View)
In biblical prophecy, numbers are almost always symbolic. The number ten represents total organizational completeness, military fullness, and universal power (just like the Ten Commandments represent the complete law).
  • How it works: The "ten kings" are not ten specific guys sitting in a room, nor are they ten specific countries you can point to on a map.
  • The "Kings": They represent the entirety of global political and military power aligned against God at the very end of human history. [1]
  • Why it fits: This prevents the trap of "newspaper exegesis." It means that whether the end-times world is ruled by 5 nations, 20 nations, or 100 nations, the spirit of the prophecy remains true: the collective, unified political force of the entire human race will eventually unite to oppose Christ.

Summary: Which is Right?
If you want the safest, most textually sound answer, it is a combination of 1 and 3. The ten kings represent a complete, universal coalition of global political rulers who will transcend traditional borders, unite the world's military power, and hand total control over to a singular global system."

My apologies to those that prefer to limit ai answers. However, in this case, ai gives a good glimpse into this topic. I'm hoping to do a more academic paper, but this framework is quite decent and of course no one can no with certainty except by their own faith.
 
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keras

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The division of the world into ten regions, has already been decided. Europe is just one region.
The EU is dead now and will be buried, along with the multinational corporations, by the worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal Lords Day of wrath.

It seems to me that many people don’t see how the Bible prophesies tie together to make a whole coherent picture.
There is no doubt that Daniel and Revelation have many parallel prophesies, that can also be seen; giving more details, in the other Bible books.

Regarding a One World Government: This concept has been around for a long time and many overt and covert movements have promoted it. That such a political entity will happen, led by a charismatic man known to us as the Anti-Christ, is quite clearly prophesied in Daniel 7:23-24 and described in Daniel 11:21-45, paralleled in Revelation 17:12-13 and his time of world control is described in Revelation 13:1-18.

The problem the promoters of the OWG have now, is the refusal of the nations to relinquish their sovereignty. We all prefer to do our own thing and with the current world situation, this works OK. There are hiccups with nations that mismanage their economies, but it is against the interests of the IMF and the ‘gnomes of Zurich’ to allow a nation to go bankrupt.

So, in order to force the nations to agree to a OWG; initially 10 regions, governed by 10 Presidents*, they know there has to be some kind of dramatic event to start this process. That planned event is to be a nuke attack in the Middle East. A mini WW3, that will shake up the world and have the beneficial effect of solving the Palestinian/ Israel conflict - they would both be gone!

Iran will proceed with their avowed plans to wipe Israel off the map and the recent developments in Syria, Gaza and Israel, is an indication of how close we are to this attack. They know such an attack will result in their own destruction, but they will do it, as their Satanic religion pushes them into it. Ezekiel 35:6, Proverbs 8:32

However, it won’t be retaliation by Israel or America that will thwart this secret attack by Iran and her allies onto Israel, the Lord will take action and He will destroy them all, Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 83, 2 Peter 3:7, virtually depopulating the entire Middle East region. Hosea 4:3, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 49:35, Isaiah 34:5, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5 and many other prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath.
The rest of the world will mostly survive and as things will be then, agreement on a OWG will be easy. Not quite as planned, but a similar result!

What happens to all the true believers in the Lord? Raptured to heaven? Nowhere does the Bible say that will happen at any time. 1 Peter 3:12 says it clearly; it will be the fiery test of our faith and we must stand firm, believing in His protection.

Then: look up, for our redemption is near. Luke 21:25-28 Jesus will Return soon.

*Google - 10 world regions.
 
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Douggg

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Nice diagrams and topic. Forgive me if I expand on the perspective on the ten kings.

First, could the ten kings be specific large corporations? Why? because, they do not already have a kingdom. Secondly, they give the anti-Christ what he needs. What does he need? Personal data and the power to limit transactions, control media and implement his plan. Plus, they have cash and are not broke like the current nations. What kingdoms do they receive? A monopoly in their area of expertise. Most are near monopolies now, but under the anti-Christ there could be no competition. Sort of like what the King of England did to give monopoly power to the British East India Tea Company. Only that was just for the 13 colonies, the anti-Christ could give monopoly power worldwide.
It is easy to scoff at such a interpretation. But John would have no idea what a multinational trillion plus corporation was. He would label it as a kingdom is a reasonable possibility.
Most religious leaders have little knowledge of how Federalism works. If the anti-Christ is the global head then the regional powers generally need to be divided fairly equally and with a geographical way that makes sense. Most EU modeling would look more like colonialism, which would be offensive to every nation that fought for independence. No way would a system divide just ten Euro powers, and besides there are far more in the EU now. You really think Spain is capable of managing Sub-Saharan Africa? Germany the USA? France - China? But lets say that one company dominates all the internet sales by gobbling up the other regional players. They immediate now can force buying and selling online, while perhaps another company handles the distribution to stores. This type of business arrangement has to be funneled to big companies to make the global system work the way the antichrist has planned. Admittedly, this is a shift but far more plausible than the EU notion. "In recent years, the stock market's gains have been historically concentrated, with the 10 largest U.S. companies accounting for roughly 40% to over 60% of the total returns in major benchmarks like the S&P 500 Index. The world is changing and nations are becoming less and large companies more. In the end with some serious mergers, the large regional players will be folded in from around the world.

I asked google ai" Could the war In Rev. 17:14 be businesses in the marketplace?

"Yes, many modern theologians view this war as a battle for economic and marketplace control. In this interpretation, the "war" is not just fought with traditional weapons, but through a globalized financial and commercial system that forces compliance." Furthermore, "Modern Globalism (Late 20th Century to Present): In the late 1900s, theologians began applying John’s words to the brand-new phenomenon of a centralized, single global economy. With the rise of international electronic banking, corporate monopolies, and digital commerce, the original 1st-century "marketplace war" concept was adapted to describe how modern corporate and political systems can financially pressure believers on a global scale. [1, 2]"

Imagine if the defense industry merged some of the larger companies and everyone else was forced to sell or be banned. So that newly formed company could be one of the ten kings. But more important than weapons is commerce. No way the governments would ever be efficient enough to manage the control of buying and selling during the small time frame that Revelation has. Logistically too inept. Now, give that power to a monopoly company, make all sales through them and the control would be fast and effective. It is interesting to note that in the first century, early Roman trade guilds shut out Christians because they would not bow. " Early Christian writers like Victorinus (who wrote the oldest surviving commentary on Revelation around 300 AD) documented how Roman emperors used economic edicts to close Christian businesses and confiscate goods."

The EU idea is basically from leaders like Hal Lindsey and Chuck Smith. It was the Christian response to the E.E.C. and now the EU. So I asked google ai:

If i said the EU model was passe versus the business model of ten kings would that be possible?

"Yes, viewing the "ten kings as the EU" theory as passé (outdated) is entirely valid, and shifting to a global business/marketplace model is highly plausible within both modern theology and current economics."

Of course no one knows for sure and I wanted to know what alternatives ai might suggest as to who the ten kings are. (I also asked for criticism of the business model and there are some holes in the theory). Alternatives suggested include:

"If we eliminate both the 1970s EU theory and the modern corporate model, we are left with the three main ways that historical, mainstream theologians actually interpret the ten kings.
To understand who they are, you have to look at the text's defining clue in Revelation 17:12: "They have not yet received a kingdom, but for one hour they will receive authority as kings along with the beast." [1, 2]
Here are the three primary explanations for who these ten kings actually are.

1. The Geopolitical Regions Model (Global Technocracy)
This is the most popular modern alternative to the EU theory. In this view, "ten" is a literal number representing ten global superpowers or regional alliances that will divide and rule the entire planet.
  • How it works: Instead of a single European empire, the globe is divided into ten administrative zones (e.g., a North American bloc, an East Asian bloc, a Middle Eastern bloc, etc.).
  • The "Kings": The leaders of these ten regions are the "kings." They don't have traditional nationalist kingdoms yet; they rule over borderless, supranational zones. [1]
  • Why it fits: It explains how a global dictator (the Beast) could rule the entire earth simultaneously. He doesn't manage 195 individual countries; he manages ten regional governors who willingly hand their collective global authority over to him.

2. The Historical Roman Model (The Preterist View)
Many historians and traditional theologians argue that we shouldn't look to the future at all. They believe the ten kings already existed in the first century AD when John wrote the book.
  • How it works: In Hebrew and Roman literature, the number "ten" was frequently used as a round number to symbolize completeness or a specific dynasty.
  • The "Kings": These are either the first ten Emperors of Rome (starting with Julius Caesar or Augustus) or the provincial governors who ruled the ten primary provinces of the Roman Empire under Nero or Domitian. [1, 2]
  • Why it fits: It directly addresses John's immediate audience. First-century Christians were being executed by Roman governors (kings) acting on behalf of the Emperor (the Beast). To them, the war was already happening.

3. The Symbolic / Universal Model (The Idealist View)
In biblical prophecy, numbers are almost always symbolic. The number ten represents total organizational completeness, military fullness, and universal power (just like the Ten Commandments represent the complete law).
  • How it works: The "ten kings" are not ten specific guys sitting in a room, nor are they ten specific countries you can point to on a map.
  • The "Kings": They represent the entirety of global political and military power aligned against God at the very end of human history. [1]
  • Why it fits: This prevents the trap of "newspaper exegesis." It means that whether the end-times world is ruled by 5 nations, 20 nations, or 100 nations, the spirit of the prophecy remains true: the collective, unified political force of the entire human race will eventually unite to oppose Christ.

Summary: Which is Right?
If you want the safest, most textually sound answer, it is a combination of 1 and 3. The ten kings represent a complete, universal coalition of global political rulers who will transcend traditional borders, unite the world's military power, and hand total control over to a singular global system."

My apologies to those that prefer to limit ai answers. However, in this case, ai gives a good glimpse into this topic. I'm hoping to do a more academic paper, but this framework is quite decent and of course no one can no with certainty except by their own faith.
Hi Richard, I appreciate everyone's interest in the thread topic and their study of the subject matter.

I think who the ten kings-leaders are will become evident when that little horn person becomes their leader. One key factor regarding the little horn person's identity is that he must be a Jew.
 
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BibleDaniel7

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Hi Douggg

I am a big fan of diagrams and visual aids. However I don’t think your Rev 12 diagram can be correct.

The first beast of Revelation 13 emerges after the events of Revelation 12. And the beast in Revelation 17 is the same as the first beast in Revelation 13. So your statement that Revelation 17 has already been fulfilled in Revelation 12 can’t be correct?

I think the order must be:
1) Rev 12
2) Rev 13 - at least the beginning when the first beast emerges from the sea.
3) Rev 17 when the woman is riding the first beast.

Revelation 12:4 says the dragon is Satan, so not sure how Satan’s 10 horns can be EU leaders?

Sorry to criticize your diagrams, but I hope this helps you to improve them!
 
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keras

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Sorry to criticize your diagrams, but I hope this helps you to improve them!
Some people have no compunctions about shuffling and misinterpreting Revelation to suit their private beliefs.

It is simply untenable to move the Sixth Seal from the sequence as Written in the Bible. It does fit with the many other Prophesies which tell of a sudden and unexpected disaster, that will commence the end times. leading up to the glorious Return of King Jesus.
 
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Douggg

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The first beast of Revelation 13 emerges after the events of Revelation 12. And the beast in Revelation 17 is the same as the first beast in Revelation 13. So your statement that Revelation 17 has already been fulfilled in Revelation 12 can’t be correct?
Hi BibleDaniel7, thanks for looking at the diagrams.

It is the Revelation 17:10, seven heads (seven kings) prophecy on the beast that will be completed in Revelation 12. The seven heads have crowns in Revelation 12:3. The prophecy completed right before the start of the 7 years before Jesus return.

In Revelation 17, 6 of those seven kings were fulfilled back in the first century at the time of John. Five (kings) fallen. One king is.

Look at the first post in the thread. I identify those 6 kings on that diagram.
 
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Douggg

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The first beast of Revelation 13 emerges after the events of Revelation 12. And the beast in Revelation 17 is the same as the first beast in Revelation 13. So your statement that Revelation 17 has already been fulfilled in Revelation 12 can’t be correct?
Revelation 17 - status at the time of John, 1st century.
Revelation 12 - status with 7 years to go right before Jesus's return.
Revelation 13 - statue with 42 months to go right before Jesus's return.

The first beast of Revelation 13:1-2 is the kingdom of the beast person of Revelation 13. The beast person is the one of the heads that were wounded unto death, but healed, Revelation 13:3.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

That head, wounded, but healed, will be the little horn person - who's last stage of his career will be as the beast king. The little horn person will be alive (i.e. is), then is not (i.e. dead), then even is (i.e. back alive) as described in Revelation 17:10-11. The little horn person will be king 7, then as the beast king - king 8.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

What it amounts to is that the little horn person will come on the scene as the leader over a group of ten EU leaders, right before the 7 years starts. Then in the middle portion of the 7 years, he will be killed and comes back to life as the beast king.


5 stages.jpg



Here is a diagram of him being killed and comes back to life.

Events ToD to AoD.jpg


BibleDaniel7, what I suggest is that every time I post a timeline chart or diagram or illustration - print up a copy, and put it in a folder so you will be able to look at them without having to search through past posts.
 
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