Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Brightfame52 · Jul 9, 2026

God’s Choice of His Elect is Unconditional and Eternal

The Scriptures teach that salvation is not dependent upon the choice of man, but rather upon the choice of God. God chose certain individuals in Christ BEFORE the foundation of the world, based solely upon His own good pleasure.

(Eph 1:4-5) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: {5} Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Christ plainly told His disciples:

(John 15:16) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

So, contrary to today’s popular theology, the choice is not man’s, the choice is God’s; and that choice was made before the world was. That choice was made without reference to anything of merit found in or "foreseen" in the creature.

(Rom 9:11-13) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth {12} It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. {13} As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

(2 Th 2:13) But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: cc Landmark Independent Baptist Church - Sovereign Grace

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Jan001 said:
Retaining my salvation is NOT solely based on my performance. God's grace is what saves me. He has criteria by which he judges me worthy or unworthy to inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:17

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

I trust in God and cooperate with his grace, which enables me to continue to obey him.

If a Christian claims to have faith in God but doesn't do the good works God has prepared for him to do, will he still inherit eternal life? Matthew 25:31-46

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

1 John 2:3-5
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

I want to hear this at my judgment:

Matthew 25:21
His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

I am trying to make you think about what your motives are for doing good works. That should be out of a desire to humbly serve Christ and not for any other reason. Anyone who has any thoughts that they can earn their own salvation or retain their salvation by their works rather than having a continual attitude of submitting to Christ and being thankful for what He did while submitting to Him and letting Him work through us does not have the right perspective.

Jan001 · Jul 9, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
I am trying to make you think about what your motives are for doing good works. That should be out of a desire to humbly serve Christ and not for any other reason. Anyone who has any thoughts that they can earn their own salvation or retain their salvation by their works rather than having a continual attitude of submitting to Christ and being thankful for what He did while submitting to Him and letting Him work through us does not have the right perspective.

I try to please God because I love him.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

A New Dawn said:
Have you read any of the Bible?

LOL! You ask me a rude and condescending question like this and you whine about how I talk to you? Could you possibly be more hypocritical?

A New Dawn said:
The whole OT is God being mad at His own chosen people. I don’t know why because God’s ways are not our ways,

You don't know why? It's very clear why. It was because of their stubborn pride and refusal to obey Him. This is not a mystery. You can't just say God's ways are not our ways every time you have no explanation for what you believe. That's a cop out.

We are told a lot about what God's ways are in the Bible. It's not a mystery. Humans tend to not have much patience with each other and tend to be quick to judge others, but God is not like that. He is very patient with everyone while giving everyone plenty of opportunity to repent (2 Peter 3:9, Ezekiel 18:30-32, Ezekiel 33:11). That's an example of how God's ways are not our ways.

A New Dawn said:
but I choose to believe that when God said that, from the very fall of man, only evil proceeds from our hearts without His intervention.

That's just not true. If that was the case then how do you explain this...

Matthew 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

Matthew 19:13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. 14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

If people are born totally depraved with total inability, as Calvinism teaches, then how can you explain Jesus saying that we need to be like little children in order to enter the kingdom of heaven?

A New Dawn said:
I happen to believe what God says. I’m sorry that some people feel the need to create a god in their own image because they don’t understand the God of the Bible.

That is how I feel about Calvinism. Scripture says that God is love (1 John 4:8), but the Calvinist god is a mix of love and hate or indifference. I would expect a God who is love to love all people and want all people to be saved and that is what scripture teaches about God (John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10).

A New Dawn said:
But what I believe about it (and I know it will send you into another rant), is that God placed His fingerprints all over creation and blesses mankind with common grace enough for man to know there really is a god who created the world, even with a hardened heart, and so holds them responsible.

LOL. So, you think He blesses those who He has no desire to give any opportunity for eternal life and is pleased to allow to instead experience eternal torment. Which means that common grace is completely meaningless in that case.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Jan001 said:
I try to please God because I love him.

That's what I was trying to get at. Our motives matter, wouldn't you agree? Your motive is that you love God and want to serve Him. That's the right motive to have. Some have the motive of trying to be good enough and to impress God in order to earn or retain their salvation, but that is not possible.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
You just want to argue

No, I don't. Should I make that claim about you when you disagree with me? I wish we could agree, but we don't.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
See you make a unfounded comment about a scripture and then want me to labour on it, and you aint did nothing

I aint did nothing? LOL. How about you tell me how you understand it? Am I asking too much? You have no interest in defending your doctrine when challenged? Would you rather just pretend that Acts 16:30-31 isn't in the Bible?

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Yeah, I have read that text 1000 times. You cant explain it. All you can do is cherry pick it.

Says the guy who doesn't even try to explain it.

Jan001 · Jul 9, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
That's what I was trying to get at. Our motives matter, wouldn't you agree? Your motive is that you love God and want to serve Him. That's the right motive to have. Some have the motive of trying to be good enough and to impress God in order to earn or retain their salvation, but that is not possible.

God knows our intentions/motives for everything we do. This is part of the criterion by which he judges us.

Fear of hell can be a great motivator for a person to seek God and change his life.

Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Thankfully, Jesus was using hyperbole to get his point across to his listeners; otherwise, there would be mostly blind people in the world today.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Jan001 said:
God knows our intentions/motives for everything we do. This is part of the criterion by which he judges us.

Fear of hell can be a great motivator for a person to seek God and change his life.

Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Thankfully, Jesus was using hyperbole to get his point across to his listeners; otherwise, there would be mostly blind people in the world today.

Agree. I hope no one has ever taken Him literally in what He said there.

Brightfame52 · Jul 9, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
No, I don't. Should I make that claim about you when you disagree with me? I wish we could agree, but we don't.

Yeah you do, thats all you do. You refuse to put work in, you just put it on everybody else

Brightfame52 · Jul 9, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
I aint did nothing? LOL. How about you tell me how you understand it? Am I asking too much? You have no interest in defending your doctrine when challenged? Would you rather just pretend that Acts 16:30-31 isn't in the Bible?

You make a unfounded comment, then dare people to prove you wrong, when you haven't attempted to prove yourself right. I have been over Acts 16:30-32 only a couple hundred times, just because Im not going over it with you dont mean nothing. You just posted it and dont know the first thing about it

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Yeah you do, thats all you do. You refuse to put work in, you just put it on everybody else

So, you think telling lies helps your case? I back up my claims with scripture and I have put the work in. Your lies can't change that. Also, I have agreed with @Jan001 and @fhansen several times, so you're just flat out wrong that I'm looking to argue with everyone. I argue with you because you're wrong about everything. Don't blame me for that.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 9, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
You make a unfounded comment, then dare people to prove you wrong, when you haven't attempted to prove yourself right. I have been over Acts 16:30-32 only a couple hundred times, just because Im not going over it with you dont mean nothing. You just posted it and dont know the first thing about it

Well, how about just taking a little time and going over it one more time, eh? It won't kill you. The question the jailer asked Paul and Silas was what must he do to be saved. They didn't say there was nothing he had to do, they said he had to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" and said that was true of everyone in his household as well. But, you would answer "nothing" if someone asked you that question, wouldn't you? That would be consistent with your beliefs.

A New Dawn · Jul 9, 2026

LeafByNiggle said:
That does not mean what you think it means. Cite the verses and we can see.

that also does not mean what you think it means. In particular, it is consistent with free will. The question reduces to how God selects those "given" to Jesus—whether it is through specific divine and unconditional election or based on God's foreknowledge of those who will freely choose to believe (where choosing to believe in Him is the condition for salvation). The verse in question ("What must I do to be saved?...) suggests the latter.

But we all have a fallen nature. But even with a fallen nature, it is possible to act in a manner pleasing to God.

They all have that desire to be drawn to God, but due to our fallen nature, we have other desires that compete with our natural God-given desire for Him. Some choose to give in those desires and some do not.

I'm not saying that unconditional election is provably false. I'm saying that it is on equal footing with free will in that both of them are assumptions that are consistent with Scripture to the same extent that Scripture is consistent with itself.

Just another way of restating the basic assumption about unconditional election. Restating a premise using different words does not constitute a proof of that premise.

There is no way to suggest that something means the exact opposite from what it says without some interesting spinning taking place.

A New Dawn · Jul 9, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
LOL! You ask me a rude and condescending question like this and you whine about how I talk to you? Could you possibly be more hypocritical?

You don't know why? It's very clear why. It was because of their stubborn pride and refusal to obey Him. This is not a mystery. You can't just say God's ways are not our ways every time you have no explanation for what you believe. That's a cop out.

We are told a lot about what God's ways are in the Bible. It's not a mystery. Humans tend to not have much patience with each other and tend to be quick to judge others, but God is not like that. He is very patient with everyone while giving everyone plenty of opportunity to repent (2 Peter 3:9, Ezekiel 18:30-32, Ezekiel 33:11). That's an example of how God's ways are not our ways.

That's just not true. If that was the case then how do you explain this...

Matthew 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

Matthew 19:13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. 14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

If people are born totally depraved with total inability, as Calvinism teaches, then how can you explain Jesus saying that we need to be like little children in order to enter the kingdom of heaven?

That is how I feel about Calvinism. Scripture says that God is love (1 John 4:8), but the Calvinist god is a mix of love and hate or indifference. I would expect a God who is love to love all people and want all people to be saved and that is what scripture teaches about God (John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10).

LOL. So, you think He blesses those who He has no desire to give any opportunity for eternal life and is pleased to allow to instead experience eternal torment. Which means that common grace is completely meaningless in that case.

According to the Bible the sun rises on the good and the evil and the rain falls on the just and the unjust. That would be Matthew 5:45, and I’m sure that you are going to have some excellent excuse for why that doesn’t mean what it says that I am not going to believe.

LeafByNiggle · Jul 9, 2026

A New Dawn said:
There is no way to suggest that something means the exact opposite from what it says without some interesting spinning taking place.

I did not suggest that something means the opposite of what it says.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 10, 2026

A New Dawn said:
According to the Bible the sun rises on the good and the evil and the rain falls on the just and the unjust. That would be Matthew 5:45, and I’m sure that you are going to have some excellent excuse for why that doesn’t mean what it says that I am not going to believe.

It does mean what it says. I'm saying it contradicts your understanding of God. Why would you believe that God would provide blessings to the same people who you think He provides no opportunity at all to be saved and have eternal life and who He hates and doesn't care about and wants to spend eternity in eternal torment?

Brightfame52 · Jul 10, 2026

There is a people in this world called the elect and the ransomed of the Lord, These folks are such a huge multitude that no man can number them yet they are a specific number.

· They are termed “the elect” because they were chosen of God unto eternal life in Christ before the world began.

· These chosen ones are called “the ransomed of the Lord” because they are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ and redeemed from the curse of the law by the blood of God’s dear Son.

Rom 8:33

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Isa 35:10

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Rev 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 5

A New Dawn · Jul 10, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
It does mean what it says. I'm saying it contradicts your understanding of God. Why would you believe that God would provide blessings to the same people who you think He provides no opportunity at all to be saved and have eternal life and who He hates and doesn't care about and wants to spend eternity in eternal torment?

Doesn’t contradict my understanding of God or I wouldn’t have said it. What it does illustrate is that you, personally, don’t know what to do with contradicting scriptures (specifically those which contradict your pet beliefs) except to call them out of context or assign different meanings to them which aren’t in evidence in the text.

Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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