Any former Dispensationalists here? What Bible statements convinced you to change?

BobRyan said:

Interesting!!

Premill can be seen in places like Rev 19 and 20 for sure.

Matt 24 and 2 Thess 2 show "a lot of things must happen before Christ appears"

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As for Israel gathered in... we see

Acts 2, 3000 gathered in Jerusalem
Acts 4, 5000 gathered in Jerusalem
Acts 5 Multitudes gathered in Jerusalem
Acts 21 Myriads and myriads gathered in Israel

More Jews are seen as being converted in other towns during the evangelism events seen in the book of Acts..

So my question for you is this... do you see Christians (both Jews and nonJews) on Earth today as "Salt of the Earth" and "Light of the world? ? As in Matt 5

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All Christians, Jewish and nonJewish, are the Salt of the Earth and the Light of the World, if they are faithfully walking with Christ in obedience and in love.

BobRyan said:

If so, then does removing all of that from the world make it even more likely that nonChristian Jews will be converted?? IE will they do even better without the salt of the Earth, and the Light of the world present??

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I don't deal with hypotheticals, particularly when the idea comes from a position I've long rejected. I reject a Pretrib Rapture of the Church, if that's what you mean by "removing all of that from the world?"

BobRyan said:

If so, then when the first handful of Christian converts happens , then aren't you back to the same situation of having Christians on the Earth trying to convert nonChristian Jews?

Just curious

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We can't convert Jews or any other Christians. We can only witness to them. God does the converting. Christians are not going to be removed from the earth before the 2nd Coming.

I believe a conversion of the Jewish nation is predicted to take place. And I believe this will take place at the 2nd Coming.

BobRyan said:

Huge problem shows up in Matt 24

#1. He can’t be “over there”. No “over there” message is to be given to the world we live in.

Matt 24

24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be

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Almost every Eschatology includes a scenario where people will be living on Earth and then someone will say “Jesus has come and He is over there…”… so then almost every Eschatology has that error


===== Matt 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation… signs and wonders… Christ appears… then His angels gather His elect from one end of the sky to the other

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And then....
Jesus says this in Matthew 24:34.

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

I know many want to catapult this to take place in the future , but you just can't do that. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was actually speaking to James, Peter, Andrew and John. We know that He was speaking of their generation. Finally, we know the end of Temple Judaism was in 70AD and we know John was still alive.

I would like to add that at that time there was an established prophetic pattern of judgment within human history. This is helpful for understanding how ancient biblical audiences interpreted language regarding the "coming of the Lord".
The Old Testament frequently depicts the "Day of the Lord" or His coming as a localized manifestation of war, cloud, and fire to execute historical judgment against both rebellious nations and Israel itself.This is the apocalyptic language we see in scripture. It symbolizes the literal destruction of a city or nation by invading armies.
In both the Old and New Testaments, the Day of the Lord is consistently depicted as a sudden, inescapable cosmic intervention marked by darkness, terrifying judgment, and the shaking of the heavens and the earth. War.

When all lenses of theology have been shed and one reads scripture as it is written this is what comes about.

fhansen said:

And isn't that sad, as the Sermon on the Mt is central to understanding the gospel with the Beatitudes, particularly, taking center stage. It's as if anytime a passage might conflict with their theology, they just assign it to old covenant teaching even if it doesn't fit the context at all, and that became a trend in many other theological circles as well.

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AND IN Gal 1 :8. and 9 says this !!

But even. if an ANGEL from heaven should be preaching the GOSPEL CONTRARY. to what we preached to you

LET him be ACCURSED and Paul. has warned all !!

And Paul only PREACHED GRACE

NEVER Peached water BAPTISM

Never preached speaking. in tongues

And Paul. is an ACTS 9 DISPENSATIONALIST. and ACTS 9:5 and 1 Tim 1:15. and 16 is the proof. !!

dan p

Dan Perez said:

AND IN Gal 1 :8. and 9 says this !!

But even. if an ANGEL from heaven should be preaching the GOSPEL CONTRARY. to what we preached to you

LET him be ACCURSED and Paul. has warned all !!

And Paul only PREACHED GRACE

NEVER Peached water BAPTISM

Never preached speaking. in tongues

dan p

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One has to take the whole of Scripture into account, along with the historic understanding of the church to begin with. Otherwise one is just basing their understanding of the faith on biblical eisegesis alone, picking up a book 2000 yrs after the fact and presuming to fully and satisfactorily understand it, better than those who originally received the faith, which is absurd.

And it's all by grace, otherwise the beatitudes, for example, could never be fulfilled. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

Maria Billingsley said:

When Paul uses the word dispenation, his context focuses on personal stewardship and the administration of God's grace and not the complex system of historical eras developed by theologians centuries later.

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AND OF COURSE you have a verse ??

The word STEWARDSHIP //. DISPENSATION is used in. Luke 16:2 and 4

otherwise it is DISPENSATION //. OIKONOMIA. and what most FAIL to understand the word MYSTERY //. MUSTERION.

INVOLES the word DISPENSATION IN. Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

dan p