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How the Right promotes socialism
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stevevw
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When it comes to either being for Christ or against Him its quite clear. All who reject Christ are therefore against His truth. Scandinavian nations are the most secular nations in the world.
The difference is Christianity has an objective truth in Christ. Whereas secular ideologies and religions allow for subjective and relative beliefs based on many different beliefs and ideologies.
Its more that the secular or religions that allow more than one ideas and even opposing ideas for belief that make it open to accommodate the radical crazies.
Beause there is nothing in their ideology that can stand on a single truth to declare these radicals as being wrong and having no rights to promote their ideology. Because under the world system of inclusion and diversity all groups have a right to express their beliefs as the truth.
For example the mainstream Dems in congress in responding to the radical ideas of some of the far left radical ideas like open borders, dismantling the police and jails have said the Dems are a big tent and allow different ideas to be included. Rather than calling out the radical ideas for what they are.
This is similar to some progressive churches that will allow teachings that are false because they claim their churches are a big tent that allows diverse ideas.
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I disagree. But, clearly that is serving no purpose. As best I can I'm going to let go of trying to convey common sense and just ask questions. And listen respectfully if you choose to answer. So what precisely is the Objective Truth in Christ? How does 'objective truth in Christ' fit the dictionary definition of 'objective' which is "something factual and unbiased—based on observable reality rather than personal feelings or opinions."
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No you're not a Christian, or no you're not saying that?
I'm just asking because somehow I was under the impression that you were a Christian.
I like to understand where people are coming from.
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iHarken
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Are you sure you’re Christian? Objective truth in Christ is when Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, & the life.” It’s not that difficult to understand. & using Oxford definitions to understanding the Word is as useful as reading Harry Potter. For example:
Pride according to the world: A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
Pride biblically: unreasonable conceit of one's own superiority.
You cannot rely on the wisdom & ethics of the world to understand objective truth which is Christ. Otherwise you’re not Christian; you’re governed by fools.
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Respectfully, I disagree. Faith is utterly subjective. Throughout the millennia not one single item of objective evidence has arisen. It is a disservice to Christianity to seek for ‘signs’ (objective truth). When others sought to test the validity of His message by seeking for a sign from heaven He said “This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Faith is not and never has been built on objective truth. It is built on a heart’s response to the Gospel message. Lk 2:12. “And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.” That promise, neither provable nor logical in this time, is understood entirely by faith. I need no “objective truth” for this faith. I would doubt anyone’s claim of finding it. Such claims of ‘objective truth’, as I’ve observed in today’s divisive arguments, are mostly shields and smoke screens for fear and loathing….’I don’t really know why the Bible says this is wrong. There is no scientific proof that it is wrong. But the Bible says it therefore it is wrong.’ Whatever that is, it’s not ‘objective truth’.
And, yes, I'm positive I am a Christian. Since I answered your question, would you mind answering mine? I'd like to know. I did read that part about Jesus "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". Is that your whole answer? Is that 'objective'?
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Respectfully, I disagree. Faith is utterly subjective. Throughout the millennia not one single item of objective evidence has arisen. It is a disservice to Christianity to seek for ‘signs’ (objective truth). When others sought to test the validity of His message by seeking for a sign from heaven He said “This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Faith is not and never has been built on objective truth. It is built on a heart’s response to the Gospel message. Lk 2:12. “And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.” That promise, neither provable nor logical in this time, is understood entirely by faith. I need no “objective truth” for this faith. I would doubt anyone’s claim of finding it. Such claims of ‘objective truth’, as I’ve observed in today’s divisive arguments, are mostly shields and smoke screens for fear and loathing….’I don’t really know why the Bible says this is wrong. There is no scientific proof that it is wrong. But the Bible says it therefore it is wrong.’ Whatever that is, it’s not ‘objective truth’. So now I've answered your question. Will you answer mine?
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iHarken
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Truly I am stupefied. I’m not talking about faith. I’m talking about the Word. Do not conflate the two.
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”
John 17:17 KJV
If God is truth, & the Word is God, then the Word is objectively true. Truth is fixed. Your argument is God is not truth.
“because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
Romans 1:19-20 KJV
You need proof? Congrats! You’re living in it. Only God is truth. Fools hate truth. Those who search truth shall find it.
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"You need proof?" What? I don't need proof. I thought my whole post showed you that. My trust is in the Truth brought to my life by Christ's death and resurrection. The Gospel. Sanctified as you mentioned from John 17:17. "The invisible things". What I know by grace. What I know by God's work in my heart. What I know by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. What I live by every day. None of that is 'objective' truth. It is more than 'objective truth'. It is a certainty found through faith. What else can I say? I won't apologize for that. Call me a fool if you choose. I won't take offense.
Anyway, now I've laid out my heart twice and you haven't answered my question. Should I assume you won't and just call us done?
Anyway, now I've laid out my heart twice and you haven't answered my question. Should I assume you won't and just call us done?
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iHarken
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I don’t call you a fool, I only quoted the Bible, quite telling if you ask me. If you would read my posts you would have found your answer; I know you’re not because you bring up sanctification when I never mentioned it…
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It's so convenient isn't it? Well, be honest, you did bring up sanctification by reference to John 17:17. And what is it I would have found? It's beyond me. Listen, clearly I'm too stupid for you. Please educate someone else. I'm through. I will put you on ignore and I pray for God's blessings upon you. Goodbye.
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iHarken
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I promise you I have the lowest IQ here, it’s not about knowledge, it’s about sight. You’re blinded by offense & only seek it. You refuse truth, even when I explain it, supported by the Word. Godspeed, may the Lord bless you.
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stevevw
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Objective truth is merely the idea that something is a truth or fact independent of subjective determinations. Christ said He was the way, truth and life. Yet no empirical test can show this objectively. But its still the truth. Christian claim its the truth and only way to God.
It is the same for transcedent truths like the experience of love. You can't verify it empirically in a test tube. But its still a truth and people fall in love. Love and hate are real experiences in the world. There are objective truths in the world that are invisible and spiritual or even emotional.
The problem is the paradigm that the truth exists within. What you are doing is applying a physical/material paradigm to aspects of life that do not belong in the material world but rather the spiritual or experiential.
If a Christian is asked is Christ a reality and that He rose from the dead. Which defies material objective reality. Christians would say yes. They believe it is a fact spiritually. Someone could use empirical sciences to ask where is the objective evidence. That we can only verify this through seeing it ourselves and repeating this experimentally.
But in reality the idea of testing this to verify its reality is a belief in itself. The belief that the world is only made up of physical empirical stuff. So really everything is about a belief in a certain worldview about how and what reality is.
You are taking one worldview (the physical one) and forcing that on everything as the truth and fact of reality. Without any verification of that, You can't put that claim in a test tube and verify it. Just like a Christian cannot do that with the claim that Christ is the truth.
All humans know God through what He has made and are without excuse. That is a truth claim. Christ says those who do not accept Christ as the truth and way are blind. They look and listen but do not see and hear Gods spirit. This speaks of two different kinds of truth and reality. One the world sees through its belief in the material paradigm being the only truth. The other beyond the material world and into Gods Kingdom.
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stevevw
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Back to the OP. I watched a piece on Kate Hopkins socialist Seattle. It seems she is beginning to run out of other peoples money. She then attempted to do a very republican thing and ask departments to restrict spending to make up the short fall.
Thousands of businesses including big corps have left and many are following as well as over 30,000 jobs due to the corporate and wealth taxes like the 'Jump Start tax'. Hopkins admin dipped into the housing revenue (the money that was earmarked to keep the promise of cheap housing for all). To fill the gap in general revenue to maintain infrustructure.
This is literally an example of socialism in action before our eyes running out of other peoples money and ending up in massive debt to achieve nothing. To actually end up with worse results where everything becomes less affaordable and unlivable. The money taken from the housing department takes away from better housing. Driving away corps to pay more tax that maintains and builds housing makes housing worse.
Thousands of businesses including big corps have left and many are following as well as over 30,000 jobs due to the corporate and wealth taxes like the 'Jump Start tax'. Hopkins admin dipped into the housing revenue (the money that was earmarked to keep the promise of cheap housing for all). To fill the gap in general revenue to maintain infrustructure.
This is literally an example of socialism in action before our eyes running out of other peoples money and ending up in massive debt to achieve nothing. To actually end up with worse results where everything becomes less affaordable and unlivable. The money taken from the housing department takes away from better housing. Driving away corps to pay more tax that maintains and builds housing makes housing worse.
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Thanks for answering my question. I see now there’s no difference between us other than how we define a word. Consequently I see how you perceive me ‘taking a worldview’ and forcing it on everything’. Actually we just have different definitions for the same thing…transcendence. You claim it to be ‘objective’. I claim it to be ‘subjective’. We both mean the same thing. We have a transcendent faith in Christ.
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Well, if you’ll read my OP, I never said socialism was good. I said the way that the right has demonized socialism by tagging it to major concerns of younger adults has become a very effective method of promoting socialism to them. And, it seems to me, that the companion message given to the ‘that’s socialism’ accusation, is the corresponding accusation ‘that’s lazy’ or ‘that’s irresponsible’ or ‘that’s selfish’ or ‘that’s hedonistic’ or ’that’s unAmerican’. So it doesn’t go over well. Instead of wasting time mocking young Americans, I think the GOP would do well to offer them something they would quickly recognize as valuable. The problem with GOP motivating us with fear and loathing, powerful as it is, it must have targets who have no power to defend themselves…but eventually they do. Which as you may observe, is happening. There is a tipping point where the growing reaction to ‘fear and loathing’ makes those exploited by it even more fearful and disapproving. Leading to increasingly irrational policies…as we can well observe. And, in the end, collapse. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes worse. Fingers crossed.
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