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Is Salvation a choice? If it is, whose choice is it ?

fhansen

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Once again, I have to ask —why inject the notion, "free", into the descriptions? I really don't care if you want to consider the "new person" to be "another person" or not—it doesn't change the principle that in regeneration one is raised from death to life, per Ephesians 2. Verse 1 says, "you were dead in your transgressions and sins", and in verse 3, "by nature deserving of wrath". Then verses, "4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus". That man must consent to what has already happened by the Spirit of God taking up residence within one, regenerating them, I don't dispute (—in fact, I insist on it), but the change and faith has already happened at that point. This is what is described by Irresistible Grace. The grace by which one is saved is a RESULT of God's choice alone. That we subsequently consent to it is immaterial to the reality of it. That we were unwilling to choose Christ before becoming "in Christ" is also immaterial to the reality of it.

Where is the double-speak? If a man is dead in his sins, deserving of wrath, and Romans 6:20 says we were slaves to sin, and 1 Corinthians 2:14 says we were unable to understand spiritual things, HOW, I ask, is one to be able to commit to Christ, to submit to God or to please God (Romans 8:7,8)? Where is the act of will involved in accomplishing spiritual birth? Up until that moment, we were dead; afterward, we were alive—no mention of human will or choice in the process.

If by "double-speak" you are not addressing regeneration, but only the ability of man to make a valid spiritual choice, I grant that man is a moral agent, and his 'valid spiritual choice' is always at enmity with God, even when he fools himself into thinking he has chosen Christ and not rejected him. He is indeed able to choose between the two alternatives, but in choosing either one, he is still at heart rejecting Christ because he is unable to do otherwise, being at enmity, as Romans 8 shows.
It would be double-speak, or double-think, at least, to say that a person who could only "freely" consent after he's been changed so that he'll consent, is really freely consenting.
 
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fhansen

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Once again, I have to ask —why inject the notion, "free", into the descriptions? I really don't care if you want to consider the "new person" to be "another person" or not—it doesn't change the principle that in regeneration one is raised from death to life, per Ephesians 2. Verse 1 says, "you were dead in your transgressions and sins", and in verse 3, "by nature deserving of wrath". Then verses, "4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus". That man must consent to what has already happened by the Spirit of God taking up residence within one, regenerating them, I don't dispute (—in fact, I insist on it), but the change and faith has already happened at that point. This is what is described by Irresistible Grace. The grace by which one is saved is a RESULT of God's choice alone. That we subsequently consent to it is immaterial to the reality of it. That we were unwilling to choose Christ before becoming "in Christ" is also immaterial to the reality of it.
Salvation, our created purpose, actually, is to be united with/near to God. It's that simple. We can be near to Him, in which case our fruit will give testimony to that nearness, or we can stray, failing to remain in Him, in which case salvation/our purpose has been thwarted-and our fruit will generally give testimony to that fact as well.
 
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