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Aliens, UFOs and the demonic: Thinking like Christians about the weird stuff

stevevw

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So what your lot is insistings is thet the magician is actually sawing a lady in half then gluing her back together again by because he has powers that are beyond our understanding. The idea that he is simply making it looks like he's sawng her in half never occurs to you. He must be an alien or demon with magical powers, becaie there's no way we mere humans can do that.
Your assuming that UAP's are like a magician sawing a women in half. First we know with a magician its tricks that make it look that way. But we don't know what is the nature of UAP's. Whether its a magic trick or not. So the logic doesn't follow that its a magic trick in the first place but reality.

We can only go by what we see and the data. That tells us its a real phenomena and not some illusion. It may be that what is presented with UAP's is a magic trick. But so far its fooled us because we have no way of knowing apart from what we see. Which so far is hard data. Solid objects moving through space.

If this was some sort of trickery that makes it look that way then that is just as weird and scary as the real thing. Because that sort of tech or ability is just as good as a alien craft defying physics and humans.
Ydah, it the radar says the flying saucer was going 45000 mph, it reallywas becuse cop radr said so. Funny, though, the speedo in the car only showed about 35. Yet another piece of magical Rednecy Engioneering!
Like I mentioned this is a false comparison. We have other evidence that matches that the UAP defied human ability including speed. Unlike the car coming down to a false claim from a cop.

We also have radar video of UAP's moving from 10,000 to 80,000 ft in a split second. We have jet pilots sighting craft going by at phenomenal speeds. We hasve live visuals matching the radars. It would be like someone seeing the Charger keep up with a jet that matched the police radar.

It would be like someone videoing the police tracking the car live on a calibrated radar and not just taking their word for it. So your comparison is a false one.
But y'all have persuaded me of one thing. Beliefe in Spacemen and Flying Saucers rdally is a religious belief. The idea of it being a high tech fake out never once occurs to you. Nope, can't be that. Gotta be magic, or different laws of physics, or multiverse theory, or anything else that has little or nothing to do with reality. Yeah, you can spook a cop's radar, but NWIH can you spoof a plane's radar.
Did someone film the cop and ensured the police radar wads calibrated. It is nothing like the level of evidence from calibrated military radar from many indepent pilots, ships and grtound radars.

No one is saying its any specific aliens or demons or anything. This is only dealing with the data that whatever is happening it is verified that the abilities defy our tech and physics. Thats it.

I even mentioned earlier of it being a possible hoax and that this in itself is freaky as it also means someone with high tech that they can create such chaos and convince many its real. Either way is world changing and a concern.

If anything those who keep insisting that the idea of aliens and demons is an impossibility are the ones creating the conspiriacy and pushing one conclusion over all others. Denying the data and testimony of credible witnesses and making out they are all conspiring some evil plan to decieve the nation and world. Without any evidence.
Well, I reckon that there are more of y'all than there are us geekazoids, so it's a game we're doomed to lose. So it goes. I yhink I'll go brush up on my Chinese...
You can believe what you wish. I am only saying that for some if not the majority all possibilities are on the table at this stage. Including ideas that may defy your beliefs about whats happening.

And those who disagree are not fools or deluded or up to evil. They just honestly believe in other possibilities and disagree.
 
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DennisF

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Nope. I consider them sinless, intelligent alien life forms, not born in Maryland or any other place on Earth

fine. Let's discuss which ones you are talking about.

indeed


if it was 0.41 or 0.31 I would not complain
All of them lack any real support. Ask yourself: If I were reading this post, what is written that would lead me to consider these statements to have merit? That's what you need to add.
 
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DennisF

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They who? Gonna get difficult to decide whether ETs are good or bad until we decide whether either are any or not. I'm not ready to accept the existence of "ETs" at all without some substial proof. Telling me how very big the universe is and there just have to be "aliens"."ot there" is codswallop. YOu could make that same fidiculous in favor of elves and pixies as well, and I find they're pretty scarce in these parts as well. "Oh, but they're demons!" That might be a little more compelling an argument if we had any reason to believe they exist at all. Kinda like... aliens.

Sorry, the "ETs is Angels/Demons" says nothing, since you still can't establish whether there are in fact any "ETs" at all, which we can't. "Oh, but these out-of-focus pictures of presumably flying blobs of some sort prove We Are Not Alone. No, all they prove is that photography is a lot more difficult that most folks belive. So no, claiming that Spacemen and Flying Saucers are demons or angels still leaves the necessity of proving that there are any Spacemn, with or without Flying Saucers. I'm from Missouri. I you have any "proof" better than a lot=rz snapshot of some unidentifiable something, you're talking through your hat.

Angels and demons interested with our Lord, stipulsstrf. You say they're ET "aliens". I say rubbish.

How handy to make ETs and Aliens into the same critters where there's no evidence to prove that ETs exist at all. Master of Faith for you, innit? Not for me. I see nary a word out an space-faring sentient beings at all. You can make up your own mythology if you like. I prefer to sail a bit closer to the wind than that.

BTW, are you SDA? They see to have aliens of on stripe or another part of their cosmology. I consider that right up there will declaring schmoos to be celestial life forms of some sort.
It all comes down to how you define:
1. ET (extraterrestrial: a being not on or of this earth)
2. angel

You simply have posited that angels cannot be ETs by definition. Yet scripture makes clear that some or all come from the heavens (extra terresterial). So clarify what you mean or do not mean by ET.
 
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BobRyan

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All of them lack any real support. Ask yourself: If I were reading this post, what is written that would lead me to consider these statements to have merit? That's what you need to add.
I pointed to the "other worlds" that the Bible says God made in Heb 1 and Heb 11.
I point to the "myriads and myriads" of beings that witness God in his act of judgment in Dan 7.
And there are many instances where the Bible describes the physical features of beings like angels.

In any case I show that demons will one day convince humans to gather armies as Rev 16 points out and the army they oppose comes from outside the earth as Rev 19 states.

Matt 24 and Rev 13 says that the deception they put forward takes in the entire population of Earth
 
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BobRyan

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It all comes down to how you define:
1. ET (extraterrestrial: a being not on or of this earth)
2. angel

You simply have posited that angels cannot be ETs by definition. Yet scripture makes clear that some or all come from the heavens (extra terresterial). So clarify what you mean or do not mean by ET.
True.

Angels by definition (whether good angels or bad ones) come from a place that is not Earth so then E.T by definition
 
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BobRyan

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Your assuming that UAP's are like a magician sawing a women in half. First we know with a magician its tricks that make it look that way. But we don't know what is the nature of UAP's. Whether its a magic trick or not. So the logic doesn't follow that its a magic trick in the first place but reality.

We can only go by what we see and the data. That tells us its a real phenomena and not some illusion. It may be that what is presented with UAP's is a magic trick. But so far its fooled us because we have no way of knowing apart from what we see. Which so far is hard data. Solid objects moving through space.

If this was some sort of trickery that makes it look that way then that is just as weird and scary as the real thing. Because that sort of tech or ability is just as good as a alien craft defying physics and humans.

Like I mentioned this is a false comparison. We have other evidence that matches that the UAP defied human ability including speed. Unlike the car coming down to a false claim from a cop.

We also have radar video of UAP's moving from 10,000 to 80,000 ft in a split second. We have jet pilots sighting craft going by at phenomenal speeds. We hasve live visuals matching the radars. It would be like someone seeing the Charger keep up with a jet that matched the police radar.

It would be like someone videoing the police tracking the car live on a calibrated radar and not just taking their word for it. So your comparison is a false one.

Did someone film the cop and ensured the police radar wads calibrated. It is nothing like the level of evidence from calibrated military radar from many indepent pilots, ships and grtound radars.

No one is saying its any specific aliens or demons or anything. This is only dealing with the data that whatever is happening it is verified that the abilities defy our tech and physics. Thats it.

I even mentioned earlier of it being a possible hoax and that this in itself is freaky as it also means someone with high tech that they can create such chaos and convince many its real. Either way is world changing and a concern.

If anything those who keep insisting that the idea of aliens and demons is an impossibility are the ones creating the conspiriacy and pushing one conclusion over all others. Denying the data and testimony of credible witnesses and making out they are all conspiring some evil plan to decieve the nation and world. Without any evidence.

You can believe what you wish. I am only saying that for some if not the majority all possibilities are on the table at this stage. Including ideas that may defy your beliefs about whats happening.

And those who disagree are not fools or deluded or up to evil. They just honestly believe in other possibilities and disagree.
A magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat (out of thin air) not by being God and having the ability to speak a rabbit into existence, but rather by slight of hand.

The devil is a far more capable magician than any human but we shoot our own argument in the foot if we start arguing 'ye they did not pull a rabbit out of thin air because there is no such thing as rabbits'.
 
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Jipsah

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And there are many instances where the Bible describes the physical features of beings like angels.
OK, there are other worlds.
In any case I show that demons will one day convince humans to gather armies as Rev 16 points out
The three frog-demons. Thing is, SCipture doesn't say anything about where they're from, They could be from Duluth Minnesota as far as we're told and no "other worlds" involved.

and the army they oppose comes from outside the earth as Rev 19 states.
Fro Heaven, specifically. THe geography of Heaven isn't really revealed in detail in Scripture.
Matt 24 and Rev 13 says that the deception they put forward takes in the entire population of Earth
Which doesn't say much of anything about where they come from.
I pointed to the "other worlds" that the Bible says God made in Heb 1 and Heb 11.
I point to the "myriads and myriads" of beings that witness God in his act of judgment in Dan 7.
And there are many instances where the Bible describes the physical features of beings like angels.
Yeah, and...?

In any case I show that demons will one day convince humans to gather armies as Rev 16
OK...
points out and the army they oppose comes from outside the earth as Rev 19 states.
Specifically Heaven. And...
Matt 24 and Rev 13 says that the deception they put forward takes in the entire population of Earth
Ergo flying saucers? That's pretty thin, innit? And even if true, so what? That proves the beast didn't come from Albania?
 
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BobRyan

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It all comes down to how you define:
1. ET (extraterrestrial: a being not on or of this earth)
2. angel

You simply have posited that angels cannot be ETs by definition. Yet scripture makes clear that some or all come from the heavens (extra terresterial). So clarify what you mean or do not mean by ET.
True.

Angels by definition (whether good angels or bad ones) come from a place that is not Earth so then E.T by definition


So E.T. by definition (Extra Terrestrial) are intelligent beings "not from Earth".

Is this a tiny bit confusing?


By the way take a close look at Ezek 28:13-19 the being whose description is Satan, created perfect (As Lucifer see Isaiah 14) but then cast out and finally turned to ashes, shows that even Satan , a spirit being, has some corporeal aspect such that even he can be reduced to ashes.



Ez 28:

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God
.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”
 
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Jipsah

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In saying that I think there is a small number that cannot be explained.
Insufficient data.
"I saw a red and blue flying thing and it was going really fast..." Yeah, coulda been aliens, coulda been demons, but far more likely it was some altogether boring thing that there wasn't enough seen of to be identified. That's the U in UFO again.
We now have conclusive evidence from videos, first hand sightings from reliable witnesses within the miliary and air force who have testified under oath in congress.
That they saw, or more often, saw represented on radar screens, stuff they couldn't identify. Some of which appeared to be doing impossible stuff.
For the first time in our history we have the government releasing the evidence and admitting there is something happening that cannot be explained away.
One way or another, anything can be explained given enough information. Lacking sufficient information, the sad tendency of many people is to simply make up an "explanation" based on their own imaginings. A lot of those "explanations" center around magic or popular fantasies.
What we are seeing is unlike the blurry and grainy images of the past.
Which no one seems to have seen, at least in forums like this one. It's the same old grainy/blurry/amorphous stuff it's always been.
We are seeing clear images
I'd be obliged if you'd share some of those.
and miliary radar data
Which can be spoofed, as we see so drramatically in the fabled "Nimitz Incident".
and its been constant and no one knows what is going on.
Best guess is Chinese military "skunk works". (Yep,I said it.) Electronic Warfare has always been about making electronic systems, notably radar, lie to its operators. That goes back the better part of a century. But somehow people seem to believe that whatever they "see" on radar is precisely what the radar "painted". Sometimes it is, sometimes it ain't. I will wager you any sum of money you'd care to name that the state of the art in Electronic Warfare is decades beyond what the average person can easily imagine. And I'd cover that wager with a bet that our Chinese friends are the leaders in that technology right now. Why? Because they're good at that sort of thing, for a variety of very good reasons, one being that they're on average better educated than we are (and that's largely cultural), second, that they concentrate on education in sciences and technology far more than we do; the same cultural values that lead them toward higher education also tend to move them toward "the hard stuff", Maths, Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, etc. and us toward Gender Studies and a variety of cloudcuckooland studies. Having said that, I'd say we're probably only a few years behind them on the High Tech Warfare stuff, Between the two SuperSates, there's enough technical Brain Bandwidth (I made that term up, All Rights Reserved) to do stuff that Joe Sixpack can only stand mesmerized by it, and declare that it has to be Magic, Spacemen, Devils, Angels, or all of the above.

I have never in my life heard of so many sightings as we have seen recently.
The technology is easier to deploy now. You can't carry a mainframe computer in a fighter plane.
But its not mundane stuff.
Of course not! But neither is it magic, assuming that magic exists, which it doesn't. (Show me a passage in Scripture where demons do magic,)
Unlike the past where the images were hard to tell or were grainy still shots.
Yeah, I've heard several people comment oh the High Quality Photos of UFOs. but I'm blowed if I can find any on the net.
These are long videos with clear footage of UAP defying what humans can do.
See above, matey. It's humans doing it.
For example video of a UAP speeding beyond our capability
Or anything else's capacity. Your 45K MPH "UAP" would have been hotter then the sun had it been real, and assuming that it weighed, oh, make up a number, 10 kilos, it would have required terrawatts of energy to make that very quick round trip. But to the fighter pilots, it was there and then it was back: just as it it hadn't moved at all.
and then coming to a standtill or doing turns from a standing start that humans could not possibly survive the velocity.
Easy enough when none of that stuff was actually moving at all. Welcome to Electronic Warfare, mate. Don't you believe them lying eyes, or more importanlty. that lying radar. Remember my 300 MPH Dodge? You reckon it was really going that fast? Fat chance. But the radar sure said it did.Right? I guess my pals and I were actually aliens, otherwise what we did would have been impossible. Or maybe it was magic? Of maybe... maybe... we we knew enought about how cop radar worked to build a gadget (and that's precisely the right word) to make the cop radar give nonsensical results. Nahhhh, had to be magic, right? No other explanation.
Some moving from air to sea. Some only 500 meters from pilots. Pilots say this is fairly common. Are they all lying ?
Their radar certainly was. And every time they cite speed or altitude or any other digital data they were getting it from their instruments, which had been spoofed. Electronic Warfare, mate. The question was, ours of theirs? I remember when USS Nautilus "sank" half a dozen US warships in the Atlantic without having been detected before they "sank" their targets. (The Nautilus skipper famously sent a message to the sufface groups commander that said "How do you like them apples?"
before she
Thats what it looks like. Have you seen the videos ? If they are fake then someone is playing a serious and dangerous game with the world.
Yep. Nations V Nations is almost never a laughing matter

That in itself is as frightening as real aliens.
Except that it's real and aliens ain't.
Because people are being fooled
Some folks work realy hard at being fooled. "It has to be magic!".
and believe its real. Not because it is obviously fake. But because it seems so real with good evidence. Someone purposely wants people to think aliens and magic is real.

Actually even the science claims that defying physics is a hypothetical possibility.
Complete rubbish. If someone says "It defied the laws of Physics" you can bet your last piastre that it did no such thing.
They speak of worm holes, multiverses with other dimensions. In fact this is required as part of the logical follow on of the same quantum physiucs.
Buzzwords for the semi-educated and credulous.

Except they would not call it magic but new and undiscovered physics.
Same thing.
If you told people 100 years ago we would go to the moon in some flying ship they would think it unreal and magic.
And so do people react to tech they can't understand today.

There is good reason. We have congressional testimony under oath from credible witnesses.
Teestimony of what? Aliens? Bosh. Magic? Codswallop. Demons? We never see Biblical demons doing anything magical.
We have first hand eye witnesses.
Of what? They don't know. And maybe some of them don't. I'll wager most do.

Unlike in the past where this was covered up
This what? "I dunno, it was covered up!" Right
and there was never any clear video.
Nor is there now.
We now have the government admitting there is some strange stuff going on that they cannot explain.
No, the credulous add the "that they can't explain." The government didn't admit that they had the hypersonic plane I saw so may years ago existed, but it did. Governments are funny like that.


I don't think people are foolish to consider it a reall possibility that something strange is happening based on that evidence.
"Strange" is subjective. I'm perfectly comfortable in Korean culture, my white kinfolk consider it strange. It usually means that you don't know what's going on.

They can identify them.
If the "they" in question exist only between one electronic device and another, or as images on an electronic screen, there's no end to how strange it can be made to be.
We have clear images and video of UAP's.
And of the Starship Enterprise. Not impressed.
The experts cannot explain this.
Sure they can. But some can't, because it's classified stuff, or won't, because it serves no purpose, and they'd be haranged by True Believers for "covering up the truth". There.s no good reason to try to explain anything who couldn't understandit in the first place, ot who'd simply reject whatever didn't suit their own ill-informed ideas.

But they are not fringe sects but credible witnesses from the military and air force.
Who saw what their instruments showed them, like my cop buddy with the numbers he got when we jammed his radar.
We also have access to the same evidence to see for ourselves and they don't look or act like whether balloons or any human made craft.
Because they're not any kind of "craft" at all. They're electronic... stuff. (Hence massless, BTW).
They are there right before our eyes.
Like water in the desert. <Laugh>

Whatever it is the evidence is so good that most people now believe in such things.
Simply proving thtat a great many people will embrace false and ridiculous ideas because of "feels" and an inability or unwillingness to do any logical reasoning.
We have never had any explanation or credible evidence that this is a hoax or even of human origin. I
Ergo they must be the product of (probably nonexistent) aliens.
f they were explainable then they would have been explained.
People still believe in ghosts, don't they? Try explaining that.

If its a hoax then they have done an excellent job.
Governments spend terrabucks making it so.
The question is why ?
Electronic WARFARE.
This seems just as frightening as real aliens
Then that's what you should be frighted of, real stuff.
that people are fooling everyone with such good evidence.
And again, good evidence of what? Hypothetical aliens? Biblical demons who have somehow developed magical powers? Mermen? Fairies? Chupacabras? Please.

Its not baseless thats the point. Can you show that these are a hoax.
When German flak batteries saw thousands of American bombers approaching on their radar screens, did they assume that aliens had joined the 8th USAAF because there was no other explanation, or did they reckon the allies had found a way to fake out their radar? (I kind of expect you to choose first option. I mean, just because they could only see hundreds of planes, maybe the alien bombers were invisible...
Even the experts cannot explain this. Its just as much a conspiracy to say all the evidence is false when it is right there before our eyes.
Experts in what? Art History?
 
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BobRyan

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They can identify them. Unlike in the past where it was denied and the images were hard to tell. We have clear images and video of UAP's. The experts cannot explain this.

But they are not fringe sects but credible witnesses from the military and air force. We also have access to the same evidence to see for ourselves and they don't look or act like whether balloons or any human made craft. They are there right before our eyes.

Whatever it is the evidence is so good that most people now believe in such things. We have never had any explanation or credible evidence that this is a hoax or even of human origin. If they were explainable then they would have been explained.

If its a hoax then they have done an excellent job. The question is why ? This seems just as frightening as real aliens that people are fooling everyone with such good evidence.

Its not baseless thats the point. Can you show that these are a hoax. Even the experts cannot explain this. Its just as much a conspiracy to say all the evidence is false when it is right there before our eyes.
Eve saw a talking serpent in Gen 3.
Moses saw Pharaoh's servants turn sticks into snakes.
Jesus saw Satan take Him to the top of the temple and also take Him to a high mountain and show Him cities of this world.

The "close eyes" " block ears" with a big "I see nothing " solution was not working

Won't work in Rev 13 signs and wonders
won't work in 2 Thess 2 signs and wonders
Won't work in the Matt 24 signs and wonders

Does not work in the Rev 16 signs and wonders that tell all the nations to gather their armies to one place so they oppose the army that shows up in Rev 19.

Wishful thinking will only take people so far.

==================

And "yes" besides all of that there are fakes out there.
 
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stevevw

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Eve saw a talking serpent in Gen 3.
Moses saw Pharaoh's servants turn sticks into snakes.
Jesus saw Satan take Him to the top of the temple and also take Him to a high mountain and show Him cities of this world.

The "close eyes" " block ears" with a big "I see nothing " solution was not working

Won't work in Rev 13 signs and wonders
won't work in 2 Thess 2 signs and wonders
Won't work in the Matt 24 signs and wonders

Does not work in the Rev 16 signs and wonders that tell all the nations to gather their armies to one place so they oppose the army that shows up in Rev 19.

Wishful thinking will only take people so far.

==================

And "yes" besides all of that there are fakes out there.
Do you think these UAP's are the signs and wonders in the skies the bible mentions ?
 
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