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Garrett.theo

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The Dan 7 Little Horn is the one who confirms the covenant. The Dan 8 Little Horn is a different person.

Dan 7:11Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking. As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was removed, but they were granted an extension of life for a season and a time.​

The Dan 7 Little Horn is the Rev 10 Mighty Angel who has control of the saints for the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses. (same as Dan 12:7).

After the Dan 7 Little Horn is killed at the 7th Trumpet, the 'rest of the beasts' are given an extension. The 'rest of the beasts' after the 4th Beast is killed are: the lion, bear, and leopard = the same beasts as the Beast from the sea in Rev 13. The Dan 8 Little Horn is presumably this ruler of the beast from the sea.

I just finished reading Revelation 10 and nowhere in it did it indicate that he is the persecutor of the saints during the 1,260 days of the two witnesses.

You say the that the little horn found in Daniel 8 is separate from the person in Daniel 9:27 who confirms a covenant with many. Yet, when we look at these texts side-by-side, we see that the little horn of Daniel 8 puts an end to the daily sacrifice, just like the person who confirms the covenant. The idea that they are two different people doesn't make sense because the act of taking away the daily sacrifice only happens once, in the middle of the seven year period.

Abomination of Desolation
Little Horn in Daniel 8
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." - Daniel 9:27
The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven. Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground. - Daniel 8:8-12



Lastly, I figured I'd let you know that the "mighty angel" seen in Revelation 10 is actually Jesus.

"Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven. And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it" -- Revelation 10: 1-3a, 5-6a​

All of these color-coded text match up with attributes that are accredited to Jesus, as shown below:

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."-- Daniel 7:13​

"At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne." -- Revelation 4:2-3​
"After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light." -- Matthew 17:1-2​
"Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, 'Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?' But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, 'Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.'" -- Revelation 5:1-5​
"But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool..." Matthew 5:34-35a​
"When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself," -- Hebrews 6:13​
With these last two verses demonstrating that God is the only one allowed to make an oath, we can now plainly see that all these correlations prove that the "mighty angel" in Revelation 10 is, in fact, Jesus himself. If the term "angel" is throwing you off just know: The Greek term translated “angel” (ἄγγελος [Strong’s G32]) simply means "messenger" and it's not necessarily an indicator of a created, angelic being!
 
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tranquil

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I just finished reading Revelation 10 and nowhere in it did it indicate that he is the persecutor of the saints during the 1,260 days of the two witnesses.

You say the that the little horn found in Daniel 8 is separate from the person in Daniel 9:27 who confirms a covenant with many. Yet, when we look at these texts side-by-side, we see that the little horn of Daniel 8 puts an end to the daily sacrifice, just like the person who confirms the covenant. The idea that they are two different people doesn't make sense because the act of taking away the daily sacrifice only happens once, in the middle of the seven year period.
Daniel 8's 'daily sacrifice' and Daniel 9's 'daily sacrifice' are not the same Hebrew word. Daniel 8's 'daily sacrifice is H8548 'tamid'. All 3 mentions of 'daily sacrifice' in Dan 8 are that word, 'tamid'. Tamid means 'daily/ perpetual/ continual'. Tamid is also the word used in Dan 12:11's 1290 days.

Contextually, 'locusts' (armies) cut off the 'daily' wine and grain offerings (daily sacrifices).
Joel 1: 4What the devouring locust has left, the swarming locust has eaten; what the swarming locust has left, the young locust has eaten; and what the young locust has left, the destroying locust has eaten. 5Wake up, you drunkards, and weep; wail, all you drinkers of wine, because of the sweet wine, for it has been cut off from your mouth. 6For a nation has invaded My land, powerful and without number; its teeth are the teeth of a lion, and its fangs are the fangs of a lioness.
9 Grain and drink offerings have been cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests are in mourning, those who minister before the LORD.​

Conversely, in Dan 9:27, that word is 'zebach' which refers to animal sacrifices/ slaughter (daily sacrifices).

Psalm 89:3 You said, “I have made a covenant with My chosen one, I have sworn to David My servant: 4‘I will establish your offspring forever​
and build up your throne for all generations.’”​

Currently the 'everlasting throne' is with Christianity - there was no throne for nation state Israel for a long time. That throne is currently Christianity. That is the 'holy place' of Matt 24:15, not a '3rd Temple' yet.

The 'locusts' that begin the great tribulation (at the start of the Trumpets) are cutting off the 'wine and bread offerings' - in other words, communion wafer and wine, the current 'holy place' of church.

At the start of the Trumpets, that is who Gog is attacking: Mystery Babylon, the church. In other words, the US and / or the Vatican. [In Ezek 38 there is the implication that 'Israel' is a 'peace' - meaning in the millenial kingdom. It is at the 'center of the world' (Ezekiel 38:12). Gog is attacking symbolic Israel/ Mystery Babylon at the start of the Trumpets. At Gog's 2nd attack in Ezek 39:1-29, it can be describing an attack on literal Israel.]

The 'burning mountain' of the 2nd Trumpet is not talking about an asteroid, it is talking about Babylon.
Revelation 8:8 The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.​
That's why in Jeremiah, it has 'locusts' who are ruled by the 'destroyer' (just like Apollyon's locusts in Rev 9's 5th Trumpet) who are turning [Mystery] Babylon into a 'burned mountain'.
Jer 51:1 This is what the LORD says: “Behold, I will stir up against Babylon and against the people of Leb-kamai the spirit of a destroyer. 2 I will send strangers to Babylon to winnow her and empty her land; for they will come against her from every side in her day of disaster.​
[...]​
14The LORD of Hosts has sworn by Himself: “Surely I will fill you up with men as with locusts, and they will shout in triumph over you.”​
25“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, you who devastate the whole earth, declares the LORD. I will stretch out My hand against you; I will roll you over the cliffs and turn you into a burned mountain.
When 'Mystery Babylon' is attacked by the Medes (Gog) at the start of the Trumpets, its locusts 'cut off the daily grain and wine offerings' - it causes the closing of churches and / or the closing of the Vatican (stopping communion bread and wine). 5 months later, it reaches Jerusalem, at the start of the 6th Trumpet for the killing of a third of mankind (this is Daniel 9:26's people of the prince to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary). One month later, after the Gog war appears to be over, it appears to be the case that God sends his 'glory' (which is to say, 'physical manifestation') to the nations (Ezekiel 39:21) (Ezekiel defines what he means by 'glory' in Ezekiel 1:26-28 - the physical manifestation of God.) That is the Revelation 10 mighty angel.

That 'mighty angel' will 'swear an oath' and 'confirm the covenant' and break it in the middle of the Dan 9:27 years, causing the 'daily sacrifice' - animal sacrifices (the 'zebach'), to stop in Ezekiel's temple that they have built. (After the Ezek 39 Gog war appears to be over, then the temple will be rebuilt as described in Ezek 40-48.)
 
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tranquil

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Lastly, I figured I'd let you know that the "mighty angel" seen in Revelation 10 is actually Jesus.

"Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven. And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it" -- Revelation 10: 1-3a, 5-6a​

All of these color-coded text match up with attributes that are accredited to Jesus, as shown below:

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."-- Daniel 7:13​

"At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne." -- Revelation 4:2-3​
"After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light." -- Matthew 17:1-2​
"Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, 'Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?' But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, 'Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.'" -- Revelation 5:1-5​
"But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool..." Matthew 5:34-35a​
"When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself," -- Hebrews 6:13​
With these last two verses demonstrating that God is the only one allowed to make an oath, we can now plainly see that all these correlations prove that the "mighty angel" in Revelation 10 is, in fact, Jesus himself. If the term "angel" is throwing you off just know: The Greek term translated “angel” (ἄγγελος [Strong’s G32]) simply means "messenger" and it's not necessarily an indicator of a created, angelic being!
I just finished reading Revelation 10 and nowhere in it did it indicate that he is the persecutor of the saints during the 1,260 days of the two witnesses.
The Rev 10 mighty angel is this angel from Dan 10 and 12, the 'man in linen':

The man in linen of Dan 10
4 On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, 5 I lifted up my eyes, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the brilliance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of polished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
Is the same ‘man in linen’ in Dan 12
5 Then I, Daniel, looked and saw two others standing there, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long until the fulfillment of these wonders?”7 And the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by Him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, and times, and half a time. When the power of the holy people has finally been shattered, all these things will be completed.”​

Both are angels 'swearing an oath to heaven' after the occurrence of the abomination (Dan 11:31-39) and Rev 9:13-21, respectively. Both are in the context of 'time, times, half a time'/ 1260 days of the holy people (the 2 witnesses).

Rev 10 :1 Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. 2 He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, 3 and called out with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. When he called out, the seven thunders sounded. 4 And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.” 5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven 6 and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, 7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.

Let's revisit Matt 24 again. There is the abomination of desolation in the holy place, causing 'great tribulation' which is then cut short. Then false Christs arise. After it is cut short, then false christs shall arise which will deceive people, even possibly the elect.

So it is no wonder that you already think that the Rev 10 mighty angel is Jesus. They think it is Jesus because it appears to be ending the 'great tribulation', right?


Matt 24:22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.​

That Rev 10 Mighty Angel is the 'angel of light' that is 'deceiving the world' (Rev 12:9).

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.​
Luke 10:18 So He told them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.​
Rev 12:9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.​

If this mighty angel was Jesus, why isn't it identified as such? Why are his words sealed up and not revealed? (Rev 10:4)

There is something hidden about this angel with an implication that the ‘mystery would be revealed’ (verse 7) at the 7th Trumpet (1260 days later after the 2 witnesses testify for those days to finish out the 2nd woe/ end the 6th Trumpet and begin the 7th Trumpet). Why is the mystery revealed at the 7th Trumpet? Because this angel will break the covenant 1260 days later at the 7th Trumpet.

This angel swears an oath by heaven, earth, and the sea – Jesus explicitly says not to swear an oath by Heaven or earth, and that to do anything more is ‘from the evil one’. Here is Jesus talking:

Matthew 5:33 Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ 34 But I tell you not to swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor should you swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. 37 Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one.

So, Jesus explicitly says, ‘Don’t swear by heaven or by earth,’ and then you have an angel coming down making an oath/ swearing by God, the heavens, the earth, and the sea. Why would Jesus say, ‘Don’t swear by heaven and earth,’ and then come down and swear by heaven and earth and the sea in Revelation 10 when Jesus just said that swearing by heaven, earth, and even more so also the sea (which fits the criteria of 'anything more than swearing by heaven and earth is from the evil one'!)?

This entity is the one who is confirming the Dan 9:27 covenant.

‘Mighty’ of Rev 10:1 in the Greek is ‘ischuros’ (‘mighty, strong’) and in Daniel 9:27, the covenant is ‘confirmed’ with the Hebrew verb ‘gabar’ which means ‘make strong, mighty’. The covenant is ‘made strong’.

Swearing oaths is how people make covenants.

Genesis 26:28 “We can plainly see that the LORD has been with you,” they replied. “We recommend that there should now be an oath between us and you. Let us make a covenant with you.​
Deuteronomy 8:18 You shall remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.​
2 Kings 11:4 But in the seventh year Jehoiada sent and brought the captains of the Carites and of the guards, and had them come to him in the house of the LORD. And he made a covenant with them and put them under oath in the house of the LORD, and he showed them the king’s son.​
Psalm 105:8 He remembers His covenant forever, the word He ordained for a thousand generations— 9 the covenant He made with Abraham, and the oath He swore to Isaac. 10 He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: 11 “I will give you the land of Canaan as the portion of your inheritance.”​
Psalm 132:11 The LORD swore an oath to David, a promise He will not revoke: “One of your descendants I will place on your throne. 12 If your sons keep My covenant and the testimony I will teach them, then their sons will also sit on your throne forever and ever.”​
Hosea 10:4 They speak mere words; with false oaths they make covenants. So judgment springs up like poisonous weeds in the furrows of a field.​
Luke 1:72 to show mercy to our fathers and to remember His holy covenant, 73 the oath He swore to our father Abraham, to grant us​
"But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool..." Matthew 5:34-35a

"When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself," -- Hebrews 6:13


With these last two verses demonstrating that God is the only one allowed to make an oath, we can now plainly see that all these correlations prove that the "mighty angel" in Revelation 10 is, in fact, Jesus himself. If the term "angel" is throwing you off just know: The Greek term translated “angel” (ἄγγελος [Strong’s G32]) simply means "messenger" and it's not necessarily an indicator of a created, angelic being!
Let's take what you say at face value (which I am not sure I agree with, but for argument's sake): only God is allowed to make oaths - that doesn't mean that only God makes oaths!

Hosea 10:4 They speak mere words; with false oaths they make covenants. So judgment springs up like poisonous weeds in the furrows of a field.​

And by your reasoning, since only God is allowed to make oaths, the Daniel 9:27 covenant can only be made by God/ Jesus. In other words, Dan 9:27 would not/ cannot be about the 'antichrist' but only about Jesus.

And the Hebrews 6 verse is just saying, God can't swear by a higher authority, so He swears by himself. Fairly straightforward.
 
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WilliamLhk

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I do not buy the preterist view. It leaves people without the knowledge and understanding of Gods plans for His peoples in the future.
I don't either; and your comment is completely irrelevant to what I wrote.
Please provide the reference in Josephus' books for your assertion.

Under Titus, in early July the Romans captured the fortress-tower of Antonia on the northwest כְּנַף/corner of the Temple Mount. War V:5:8; VI:1:7 It provided access to the Temple complex via a narrow passage, which led “as far as the corner of the inner court of the Temple.” VI:1:8 This tower was elevated עַל/above/over the Temple, which allowed the Romans to look down upon the Temple and its courts. VI:1:5; 2:5

The “abominations of a destroyer” that ensued consisted of the most savage combat between Romans and Jews, including instances of Jewish fratricide; piles of corpses within the Temple complex; and the Jews and then the Romans setting fire to the Temple’s own cloisters across from the Roman-occupied Antonia. Also, the Romans began bringing their idolatrous ensigns (Aquilae), to which sacrifices were offered, into the Antonia Tower, and then into the Temple precincts. VI:1:7; 6:1 They were called Aquilae because of the eagle perched on top of them, a symbol of Jupiter.

VI:Endnote 24 …Tertullian truly says in his Apologetic…that the entire religion of the Roman camp almost consisted in worshipping the ensigns, in swearing by the ensigns, and in preferring the ensigns before all the [other] gods.
 
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WilliamLhk

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In Daniel 8:25, we read that he will stand up against the Prince of prince - which is referring to Jesus
A very common misunderstanding.

Daniel 8:10 And he became great unto the host of the heavens, and caused to fall [Hiphil] earthward some from the host and from the stars, and trampled them. 11 And he was made great [Hiphil] unto the sar/chief of the host… 25 “…and he shall stand against the sar-sarim/chief one of chief ones…”


Antiochus took the titular name Epiphanes, which literally means “Over-Shining One,” or more generally “Manifestation (of Godhood).” To dispel any doubt, he minted coins carrying his portrait along with the words Theos Epiphanes: “God Manifest.” He was thoroughly possessed by a heavenly sar/chief one/Power. And, as such, felt empowered to contest for preeminence over the Land of Israel and the Jerusalem Temple with the sar-sarim of heaven. Some have supposed that one to be Onias III, the pious Jewish High Priest. Others have presumed him to be the pre-incarnate Christ. But in Daniel 10:13 and 12:1, the pre-incarnate Christ tells us that “the אחד/first/foremost of the ancestral sarim” [Heb. אַחַד הַשָּׂרִים הָרִאשֹׁנִים] is the archangel Michael, who is “the great sar, the one standing over your people [Israel].” See also Daniel 10:21, Revelation 12:7, Jude 9, and Joshua 5:14.


The common translation of sar as “prince” is confusingly ambiguous, seeing that the KJV translates fourteen different Hebrew words “prince.” A sar always denotes a very powerful head of an army or government.
 
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WilliamLhk

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Daniel 8:23 the fierce king is the end times little horn person. The transgressors are the ten kings of the EU.
Again, a common but erroneous belief:

Daniel 8:9 And from the first/foremost of them came a diminutive horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land.

Many people mistakenly equate this מץעירה/diminutive/tiny horn with the זעירה/little/small horn of Daniel 7:8, but this is incorrect. The latter was to arise later out of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, the Roman Empire, while the one here arises out of the third beast, the Greek Empire. Prophetically, horns represent human rulers that receive earthly power from their underlying heavenly spiritual Power. See Daniel 8:20, 21 above.

This diminutive horn was Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Seleucid Kingdom (r. 176 – ca. 164 B.C.), the first/foremost of the Greek kingdoms of his era, who was to “become strong with a few people.” Dan. 11:23

Daniel 8:10 And he became great unto the host of the heavens, and caused to fall [Hiphil] earthward some from the host and from the stars, and trampled them. 11 And he was made great [Hiphil] unto the sar/chief of the host… 25 “…and he shall stand against the sar-sarim/chief one of chief ones…”

Antiochus took the titular name Epiphanes, which literally means “Over-Shining One,” or more generally “Manifestation (of Godhood).” To dispel any doubt, he minted coins carrying his portrait along with the words Theos Epiphanes: “God Manifest.” He was thoroughly possessed by a heavenly sar/chief one/Power.
 
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keras

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I don't either; and your comment is completely irrelevant to what I wrote.
But you promote Daniel 9:27 as being fulfilled.
Daniel 11 shows the 70th week remains to be fully completed.
 
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keras

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If Daniel 11 says that, you would have showed it, not just claimed it. But it doesn't.
Daniel 11:21-45, is all unfulfilled Prophecy. There is no historical record of what Daniel describes.
It will occur during the final 7 years of this age, with Daniel 11:31-33 taking place at the mid point, as per Daniel 9:27
 
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Garrett.theo

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Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

(also "set up" in the translation you posted for Daniel 9:27)

The abomination of desolation will be set up. It is a thing, an object, will be set up, placed - not a person.

btw, what translation are you using ? And are you doing a copy and paste from that translation in the columns of your post ?




Is the purpose being to help people understand the end-times ? If so, you chart should be correct and understandable by others who view it.

As your chart presently is - it is lacking in correctness and understand-ability.

If your idea that the abomination of desolation is an object because the text says: "...at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation..." then please allow me to demonstrate why this line of reasoning isn't definitive.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 tells us that the man of lawlessness will set "himself up in God's temple," as demonstrated below

"Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."​

In addition to that, we're also told that the little horn of Daniel 8, also "set itself up," as highlighted below:

"The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven. Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down." - Daniel 8:8-11​

Together, these verses demonstrate that a person can, in fact, "set themself up," as Scripture puts it. Which means the person who makes the covenant in Daniel 9 can most certainly be the abomination of desolation that is described as being set up.

Here are some more modern examples that demonstrate how a person can "set themself up":

"The man set himself up in bed to get ready for the day."
"The woman set herself up at her desk and began working."
"The artist set herself up near the lake to paint the landscape."
"The student set himself up at the piano and began to practice."
"The couple set themselves up upon moving into the city."
"He left his hometown and set himself up on the West Coast."
"She saved enough money to set herself up in a the suburbs."



Yes, I copy & paste Bible verses. It's not only easier like that, but it makes sure that I don't accidently misspell words. Is there a concern you have with the translation I'm using?



I'm going to explain this in the absolute most simplest manner I can. This timeline is a part of an end-time series where it was developed over the course of multiple studies. Each article covers a different topic about the end-times. At the end of each article there is a timeline that is meant to summarize its contents in relation to the previous studies. Those timelines also help the reader to visualize the events to come. The reason why the timelines doesn't need a legend is because each article explains its respective images. These timelines weren't intended to standalone. They were content made for the studies they go with. Despite this fact, if someone who hadn't read those studies had stumbled across this timeline, yet they were familiar with Bible Eschatology, they would still be able to make sense of the images and what they mean. I know this because you, yourself, demonstrated it by labeling the icons, yet you haven't read all the studies.
 
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Douggg

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"Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."
What translation are you copying and pasting that version of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 from ?
 
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WilliamLhk

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Daniel 11:21-45, is all unfulfilled Prophecy. There is no historical record of what Daniel describes.
It will occur during the final 7 years of this age, with Daniel 11:31-33 taking place at the mid point, as per Daniel 9:27
According to you, but there isn't even a hint of any 7-year time period, or any other time period, in Daniel 11.
Daniel 11:21-33 (or more) were fulfilled completely and detail during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes:
Antiochus Epiphanes and the End Times
Part 1: The History
Daniel 11:21 [After the death of Syrian King Seleucus IV in 176 B.C., there] ar[o]se a vile person [Antiochus IV Epiphanes], [who] seize[d] the kingdom by flattery/slickness. 1 Maccabees 1:10 …he had been a hostage in Rome [since 190 B.C., when his father Antiochus III the Great lost most of Asia Minor to Rome at the Battle of Magnesia. Antiochus learned Roman manners and political skills during his 14 years in Rome, and probably returned to Syria with some Roman support and funding.] Dan. 11:22 [His Syrian enemies were] swept away with the force of a flood and broken, and also the foremost one [High Priest Onias III] of the [Jewsʼ holy] covenant.

1 Macc. 1:11 In those days lawless men came forth from Israel and misled many, saying, “Let us go and make a covenant with the Gentiles...” 13 …some of the people eagerly went to the king [Antiochus]. He authorized them to observe the ordinances of the Gentiles. 14 So they…abandoned the holy covenant. Dan. 11:23 And some [of the Jews] binding themselves with him, he act[ed] deceitfully, and r[o]se up and bec[a]me strong with a small nation. 2 Macc. 4:7-9 Jason, the brother of [High Priest] Onias [III], obtained the high priesthood by corruption, [paying a large bribe to Antiochus. :10 Jason then] shifted his countrymen over to the Greek way of life. …14 …the priests were no longer intent upon their service at the altar.

2 Macc. 4:23 After a period of three years…Menelaus… 24 …secured the high priesthood for himself, outbidding Jason… 25 [Being a Benjamite, he] possess[ed] no qualifications for the high priesthood, but had the hot temper of a cruel tyrant and the rage of a savage wild beast. [32-34 Using gold vessels he stole from the temple, he then bribed Antiochusʼs deputy to have Onias III assassinated, ca. 172/1 B.C.]

1 Macc. 1:16 When Antiochus saw that his kingdom was established… 17…he invaded Egypt… 18 …engaged Ptolemy [VI Philometor] King of Egypt in [the] battle [of Pelusium, 171 B.C.], and Ptolemy turned and fled… Dan. 11:25 He [Antiochus] stir[red] up his power and his heart against the King of the south with a great army. And the King of the South [was] stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army, but he [did] not stand… 1 Macc. 1:19 [Antiochus then] plundered the land of Egypt.

1 Macc. 1:20 After subduing Egypt, Antiochus returned in the 143rd year [170 B.C.]. He went up against Israel and came to Jerusalem with a strong force. 21 He arrogantly entered the sanctuary and took the golden altar, the lampstand for the light, and all its utensils[, 22-23 and everything else of value.] 24 Taking them all, he departed to his own land. = Dan. 11:28 While returning to his land [from Egypt] with great riches, his heart [was] moved against the holy covenant; so he act[ed], and return[ed] to his own land.

1 Macc. 1:29 Two years later [in 168 B.C.], 2 Macc. 5:1 Antiochus made his second invasion of Egypt. Dan. 11:29 At the appointed time he return[ed] and [went] toward the south; but it [was] not like the former time or like the latter. 30 For ships of Kittim [a Roman fleet commanded by Popilius Laenus] c[a]me against him; therefore he [was] grieved, and return[ed] and [was] enrage[d] against the holy covenant, and so acted…and show[ed] regard for those who forsook the holy covenant.

1 Macc. 1:31 [Antiochus] plundered the city… 2 Macc. 5:14…80,000 Jews were destroyed…and as many sold into slavery… 15 Antiochus dared to enter the most holy Temple in the world, guided by Menelaus, who had become a traitor to the laws and to his country. 16 [Antiochus] took the holy vessels with his polluted hands… 17…not perceiving that the Lord was angered for a little because of the sins of those who dwelt in the city, and that therefore He was disregarding the holy place.

1 Macc. 1:33 Then they fortified the city of David… 34 And they stationed there a sinful people, lawless men. … 37 On every side of the sanctuary they shed innocent blood; they even defiled the sanctuary. 38 Because of them, the residents of Jerusalem fled, [and] … 39 Her sanctuary became as desolate as a desert… Dan. 11:31 And forces [were] mustered by him, and they defile[d] the sanctuary fortress, and they [took] away the daily/continual service

1 Macc. 1:54 Now on the 15th day of Chislev in the 145th year [~Dec. 16, 168 B.C.], they erected a desolating sacrilege [likely an idol of Zeus] upon the altar of burnt offering. Dan. 11:31…they…place[d] the abomination of desolation. 1 Macc. 1:54 And on the 25th day of the month [~Dec. 26, 168 B.C.] they offered sacrifice on the altar which was upon the altar of burnt sacrifice.

1 Macc. 1:41 …the king wrote to his whole kingdom that all should be one people, 42 and that each should give up his customs. 43 … Many even from Israel gladly adopted his religion… 52 they forsook the law…and they did evil in the land; 53 they drove Israel into hiding in every place of refuge they had.

Dan. 11:32 Those who [did] wickedly against the covenant [Antiochus] corrupt[ed] with flattery; but the people knowing their God [were] strong, and acted so. 1 Macc. 2:1 In those days Mattathias…a priest of the sons of Joarib… 14 …and his [five] sons rent their clothes, put on sackcloth, and mourned greatly. 15 Then the kingʼs officers who were enforcing the apostasy [Gr. apostasia] came to Modein to make them offer sacrifice. … 19 But Mattathias answered and said in a loud voice… 22 “We will not obey the kingʼs words by turning aside from our religion to the right hand or to the left. … 27 Let everyone who is zealous for the law and supports the covenant come out with me!” 28 And he and his sons fled to the hills and left all that they had in the city. 29 Then many who were seeking righteousness and justice went down to the wilderness to dwell there… 42 Then there united with them a company of Hasidians, mighty warriors of Israel, every one who offered himself willingly for the law.

Dan. 11:32 And those of the people who under[stood] instruct[ed] many; yet for many days they [were] enfeeble[d] by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 1 Macc. 3:1 [After the death of the aged Mattathias,] then Judas his son, who was called Maccabeus, took command in his place. [Chapters 3-4: three years of warfare between the Maccabees and the Syrians ensued, with the Jews coming to gain the upper hand, and driving the Syrians out of the land.] 4:36 Then said Judas and his brothers, “Behold, our enemies are crushed; let us go up to cleanse the sanctuary and dedicate it.” 37 So all the army assembled and they went up to Mount Zion. … 47 Then they…built a new altar like the former one. 48 They also rebuilt the sanctuary… 49 …made new holy vessels, and… 50 …lighted the lamps on the lampstand… 52 Early in the morning on the 25th day of the ninth month [~Dec. 24], which is the month of Chislev, in the 148th year [165 B.C.], 53 they rose and offered sacrifice… 54 At the very season and on the very day that the Gentiles had profaned it, [the Temple] was [re]dedicated… 56 So they celebrated the dedication of the altar for eight days… 59 Then…all the assembly of Israel determined that every year at that season the days of the dedication of the altar should be observed with gladness and joy for eight days, beginning with the 25th day of the month Chislev.
This is the eight-day Feast of Dedication (John 10:22), also called Hanukkah, still kept by the Jews to this day.

 
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keras

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According to you, but there isn't even a hint of any 7-year time period, or any other time period, in Daniel 11.
Daniel 11:21-33 (or more) were fulfilled completely and detail during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes:
It is nothing unusual for a prophecy to have a partial fulfilment, or a similar occurrence; as an example for us.
Paul said this was the case; 1 Corinthians 10:6-11.....All these things that happened to them, were symbolic and were recorded as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the age has come.

I laugh at how preterists make great efforts to avoid any possibility that they could be involved in dramatic and scary things.
 
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WilliamLhk

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I laugh at how preterists make great efforts to avoid any possibility that they could be involved in dramatic and scary things.
Likewise.
And how other prophecy commentators blithely ignore the record of history whenever it conflicts with their beliefs. And how others presume to add their own beliefs into the Word, or presume their beliefs are equal to or even superior to the Word.
 
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keras

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And how other prophecy commentators blithely ignore the record of history whenever it conflicts with their beliefs
Having read and studied many books on ancient Mid East History, I confidently assert that Daniel 11:21-45. remains unfulfilled.
This whole obsession with "end times" is tantamount to superstition, unhealthy curiosity about the future and trying to read it.
What is very bad for our health and well-being, is to ignore a large portion of our Bible.
Has God given us so much information for no reason?

When things do really start to happen and be assured it will; Ezekiel 33:33 then those who lack knowledge will not know which way to turn. Luke 21:25-26
 
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WilliamLhk

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This whole obsession with "end times" is tantamount to superstition, unhealthy curiosity about the future and trying to read it.
So Jesus and Paul and the the Apostles were superstitious?
 
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Garrett.theo

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Daniel 9:27 says nothing at all about setting up a little horn or an abomination of desolation. Again, if you can't comprehend the Hebrew text, you can only parrot the false translations and doctrines of others.


I deny it, because it isn't true. If you are a serious student of the Scriptures, the following articles examine and explain this issue in detail:
39. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 2: Daniel 8ʼs Original Vision of “the Pesha/Rebellion” of the Jews
Explains why Danielʼs original vision of the pesha/ rebellion/apostasy of the Jewish priesthood and people under Antiochus Epiphanes must be examined next, in order to set the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 in its proper context. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1575-daniel-924-27-examined-part-2-daniel-8ʼs-original-vision-of-“the-pesharebellion”-of-the-jews/
40. Part 2 Conclusion
Concludes the review of Daniel 8 by pointing out some critical English-text mistranslations that have led many people to misunderstand key passages of the prophecy. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/

I took the time to read though your writings. I understand that the reason why you believe the figure referred to as the "tiny horn" in Daniel 8 is different from individual called the "little horn" in Daniel 7 is because a different Hebrew word is used for each.

Unbeknownst to you, this is your folly. You take things way too literally, which is why you can understand what God's Word is actually saying. Similar to the English language, different words in Hebrew can be used to point to the same thing. Here are some examples:

"New York City"
"The Big Apple"
"Concrete Jungle"

"The President"
"The Commander in Chief"
"The Head of State"
"The Nation's Leader"

"Moby Dick"
"The White Whale"
"The Great Leviathan"
"The Monstrous Creature"

Here are examples from Scripture:

"The Church"
"The Body of Christ"
"The Bride of Christ"

"The Holy Spirit"
"The Spirit"
"The Comforter"
"God's Spirit"
"The Spirit of God"

"The Gospel"
"Gospel of God"
"The Gospel of Christ"
"The Gospel of The Kingdom"

As it relates to Scripture, you can be sure that these phrases use different Hebrew words. Yet, we can still understand they are relating to the same thing because of context.

I honestly believe the reason why you take Scripture too literally is because you have reverence for God's Word and you don't want to accidently misinterpret what is being said. So, I'll give you that. But at the end of the day, I'm just going to have to disagree with you because I see things more abstractly than you do, and I don't believe God wants us to take everything too literally. God invented idioms, metaphors, patterned language, synonyms, figures-of-speech, parables, allegories, analogies, etc. Because of this, I don't have to feel bad if I'm not taking every word or passage literally. All of those things are a regular part of human life and we can be sure they existed back then, and in the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic languages. Not only did Jesus speak in parables but in the Old Testament we see the Lord using poetic language, such as referring to Israel as a woman or when the Lord said Israel will "thresh the mountains."

You have the Lord's example not to be so strictly literal when it comes to understanding His word.
 
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WilliamLhk

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I understand that the reason why you believe the figure referred to as the "tiny horn" in Daniel 8 is different from individual called the "little horn" in Daniel 7 is because a different Hebrew word is used for each.
Incorrect. That is only a minor reason, part of a whole.

The primary reasons are that Daniel 8 and Daniel 7 describe two entirely different scenarios that take place at two entirely different eras in history.

But since most people have never put much if any time into learning about the historical period described in Daniel 8, they simply cannot understand that every event described therein was precisely fulfilled, in every detail, during the pre-Christian era of the kingdoms of Persia and Grecia.
 
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