Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church Teach the Gospel?

BobRyan said:

You are welcomed to your private opinion of course.

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given that "private opinions" of the Revelation are precisely what most :End Times" doctrines are based on.

BobRyan said:

For many of us, we understand that the NT texts were being read and accepted by Christians long before the 4th century.

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Along with a lot of stuff that was never accepted into the Canon of Scripture that is accepted by the Church as a

BobRyan said:

In any case, you don't have to accept the text, you have free will

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And from a practical standpoint, just accept, or contrive, a "meaning" for a text that best suits your doctrinal presuppositions.

PloverWing said:

@BrandenHarvey : Let's use your summary of the gospel, from I Corinthians: "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and ... He was buried, and ... He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures." Are you telling me that Seventh-Day Adventists disagree with this statement? Other SDA participants in this thread, do you disagree with the quoted statement from I Corinthians?

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That is 1 Cor 15. We agree with the text.

Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also

tall73 said:

I would say that Adventists do preach the gospel about Jesus' death burial and resurrection.

What I think you are seeing is that in addition to the gospel they tend to focus on what they consider to be "present truth"

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We include what Paul includes in Rom 2;15-16 and what john includes in Rev 14:12-13 (ie things that not everyone here is happy about... yet it is in scripture all the same)

As I pointed out here

BobRyan said:

Gal 3:8 'The Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Gal 1:6-9 don't fall for a different gospel. There is only one.
Eph 2:8-10 we are saved by grace through faith
Rom 2:16 "God will judge the world through Christ Jesus, according to my Gospel"
John 3:16 God so loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an everlasting gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

Matt 5:
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

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reddogs said:

Those who leave the truth will become the bitterest enemies of the remnant, there is nothing we can do. Only God can change their hearts and guide them back to the strait and narrow....

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But the member in question is still a Christian?

BrandenHarvey said:

What is the gospel, according to the Bible?

Galatians 1:11-12

[11] But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. [12] For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul got the gospel from Christ Himself.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, [2] by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. [3] For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

The gospel Is the death and resurrection of Christ.

Galatians 1:6-9

[6] I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [7] which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

If someone preaches another gospel, they are cursed.

What is the Seventh-day Adventist gospel?

According to the mission statement of The Seventh-day Adventist Church:

"Our Mission

Make disciples of Jesus Christ who live as his loving witnesses and proclaim to all people the everlasting gospel of the Three Angels' Messages in preparation for His soon return."

"The prophecies of the book of Revelation clearly outline the remnant. The Three Angels' Messages of Revelation 14:6-12 reveal the proclamation of the remnant that will bring a full and final restoration of the Gospel truth."
Seventh-day Adventists Believe...
Page 163

According to the Adventist Church, the gospel is the Three Angels' Messages.

Let's look at some more evidence...

The Advent and Sabbath Review Herald.
October 26, 1869.
Page 138

Adventist Review.
December 1999
Page 14
You can speak clearly where it talks about The gospel in the context of the Three Angels' Messages.

It is clear that the gospel message of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the Three Angels' Messages.

The question is, is the Three Angels' Messages the death and Resurrection of Christ? As I showed you at the beginning, the death and resurrection of Christ is the gospel message. Anyone that preaches a different gospel is cursed. So let's look at what the Three Angels' Messages are, according to the Adventist Church.

You can look up these references if you want. I'm not going to quote them.

First Angel:

Seventh-day Adventist Believe...
Pages 164 and 165

Discipleship Handbook
Page 106

So the first Angels message is that judgment began in 1844.

Second Angel:

Seventh-Day Adventists Believe...
Pages 165 and 166

Discipleship Handbook.
Page 106

The second Angels message is Babylon has fallen and to come out of her.

Third Angel:

Seventh-day Adventist Believe...
Pages 166 and 167

The third Angel's message is that Sunday worship will become the mark of the beast.

Remember, the gospel, according to the Bible, is the death and resurrection of Christ?. The gospel, according to the Adventist Church, is the Three Angels' Messages. Does any of that sound like the death and Resurrection of Christ?

Go back to Galatians 1:8-9.

[8] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Anyone that preaches a different gospel is cursed.

I have nothing against Adventists. I was one for a very long time.

To my Adventist friends, I have one simple message.

Come out of her.

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Helpful info…wish you would have quoted their 3 angels messages …even more helpful… thank you!

Jipsah said:

And other stuff, as well, as Bro Liturgist pointed out.

Even the Apocalypse? If so, St. Paul neglected tomention it.

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Indeed, if we look at the oldest intact Greek bibles, we find a number of books in them which St. Athanasius excluded from the canon which ultimately wound up being adopted as the ecumenical standard, for example, Laodiceans, the Apocalypse of Peter, 1 Barnabas, as well as certain very important first century Patristic works which are not of disputed authenticity but rather there was a difference of opinion in that some early church fathers felt they should be included, as the writings of the immediate or second generation successors to the Apostles such as 1 Clement and the Didache and the Shepherd of Hermas, while the majority took the view of St. Athanasius that these writings should be used for moral instruction and were extremely important but the New Testament should be constrained to writings of Apostolic provenance only.

On the other hand, because of the bother of translating all of this, Syriac Aramaic speaking Christians (who were the only Aramaic speakers to ever get the entire canonical Gospel translated into their dialect in antiquity - essentially Classical Syriac became the Christian dialect of Aramaic and modern Christian dialects are either more or less descended from it (Turoyo, for example) or are influenced by it very heavily (Sureth, also known as Assyrian neo-Aramaic). And initially the Peshitta, the Syriac bible only had the 22 book canon, lacking 2 Peter, Jude, 2 John, 3 John, and the Apocalypse. The West Syriac copies of the Peshitta, known as the Peshitto, later obtained those books thanks to a translation from St. Philoxenus of Mabbug via St. Thomas of Harqel, but to this date the East Syriac Peshitta lacks them, and they never appeared in the lectionary of the East Syriac RIte, which is the liturgical usage of the Mar Thoma Christians of India and the persecuted Church of the East more generally.

And given some odd readings of these works of Antilegomenna, frankly I’m sympathetic towards those fourth century fathers who did not prioritize translating them into Syriac, even though I also support the Athanasian canon as an essential part of Apostolic tradition (I also am inclined to regard these five books as the most historically important listing of Antilegomenna).

By the way it seems very likely that someone will falsely accuse me of denying that the Apocalypse (which is what we really ought to call Revelation, as a means of making it clear that it is the only canonical Apocalypse in the Christian religion), 2 Peter etc are Scripture despite the fact that I quote from them routinely.

Also you are quite right to point out that of these books, they are not referenced internally within the New Testament - the New Testament lacks any kind of usable Table of Contents that comes close to encapsulating the entire 27 book corpus. Which is fine, because actually the average layman doesn’t need all 27 books. One synoptic Gospel (preferrably Matthew or Luke due to their inclusion of the Nativity), the Acts of the Apostles, 1 Corinthians, Galatians or Romans and the Gospel According to St. John should be enough as a bare minimum, although what is actually important can be gleaned by comparing the Eucharistic lectionaries of the ancient liturgical rites such as the Roman rite used as the basis of the Anglican, Lutheran and other Protestant liturgies as well as the Tridentine Roman Rite before the the adoption of the three-year lectionary in 1969 which led to the Revised Common Lectionary (I have qualms with those three year lectionaries as is widely known), the Byzantine lectionary, which is very similar, the West Syriac lectionary, also very similar, the Coptic lectionary, which has more New Testament lessons and more aggressively reads the New Testament, the East Syriac lectionary which includes in the Eucharistic liturgy a Torah and corresponding Haftarah lesson from the Jewish lectionary (albeit arranged according to the Christian liturgical year), and the Gallican lectionaries, which also included an Old Testament lesson in the Eucharist prophetically connected to the Gospel lesson but only one, not two, for a total of three lessons (OT prophecy, NT Epistle, Gospel) + assorted Psalmody, which is very much like the modern three year lectionaries albeit it got it done in one year. (If you’re wondering when people of other rites heard the Old Testament, traditionally that happened at Vespers on the eve of the liturgy, and is still where people in the Coptic Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic, Syriac Orthodox and related churches hear their Old Testament lessons - also, since the liturgical day does not end until the end of Vespers, because of this practice it cannot be said that the aforementioned Eastern churches do not worship on the seventh-day Sabbath, even setting aside the Eucharistic liturgies they celebrate on that day.

throughfierytrial said:

Helpful info…wish you would have quoted their 3 angels messages …even more helpful… thank you!

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You can find it right in the book of Revelation, the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Its what Jesus commissioned His end time church to spread to the entire world before His return.

Its the everlasting gospel message to get back to true worship of God. Our fear of God is taught through mans traditions Isa 29:13 something Jesus condemned as false worship to Him and makes His word void Mat15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 why this message is going out to the entire world before Jesus comes and our decisions sealed Rev22:11

The Proclamations of Three Angels​

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Exo20:11

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying [i]to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

SabbathBlessings said:

You can find it right in the book of Revelation, the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Its what Jesus commissioned His end time church to spread to the entire world before His return.

Its the everlasting gospel message to get back to true worship of God. Our fear of God is taught through mans traditions Isa 29:13 something Jesus condemned as false worship to Him and makes His word void Mat15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 why this message is going out to the entire world before Jesus comes and our decisions sealed Rev22:11

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14 - New King James Version

The Lamb and the 144,000 - Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I...

www.biblegateway.com

The Proclamations of Three Angels​

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Exo20:11

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying [i]to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

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Are you saying those three verses are the entirety of the Gospel and not restatements of a Gospel message already defined in the four canonical Gospels?

The Liturgist said:

Are you saying those three verses are the entirety of the Gospel and not restatements of a Gospel message already defined in the four canonical Gospels?

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I am saying what the Scripture states, its the everlasting gospel which there is only one gospel.

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Exo20:11

Why anyone would want to argue against only worshipping God the right way as He asks, as not being the everlasting gospel is beyond me, but to each their own. Its been the same issue from the beginning, man thinks they know better than God and wants to do things their way instead of how God says, its the story in the Bible over and over again and sadly man has not learned from the same example of disobedience Heb4:11. They want all of God's blessings on their terms, not God's Isa 56:2 they want to serve God on their terms, not how God asks Isa 56:6 this message is trying to get people back to what God said Exo20:6 Rev14:12 fearing God Exo20:20 Ecc3:14 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev14:6-7 over fearing God through the teachings of mans traditions Isa29:13 which Jesus condemned Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13

This is the same gospel message given to poor Jeremiah who was commissioned to go to God's people who professed God with their mouth, but in action served another god. Jeremiah was scoffed at, had death threats, his own family plotted to kill him, his message from God rejected by the leaders of the church and practically everyone, he was beaten, imprisoned until God had enough. God withdrew His protection from the professed people of God, many of them died and the rest were captured by Babylon.

This is God's end time message to get back to obeying God, fear God, give Him glory and worship Him, which is shown on the first tablet of stone that was written by God, how He tells us to love Him Exo20:6 that's inside God's ark also in heaven Rev11:19, whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16 so if we are not obeying what God says Exo20:1-17 James2:11 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 Exo20:6 Rev14:12 Rev22:14 by default we are serving another. This time when Jesus comes- we will have no more chances to change our mind, our decision sealed Rev22:11

SabbathBlessings said:

I am saying what the Scripture states, its the everlasting gospel

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Amen Rev 14:6

SabbathBlessings said:

which there is only one gospel.

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amen Gal 1:6-9

And of course that "Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

Paul of course also says 'God will judge the secrets of mankind through Jesus Christ, according to my GOSPEL" Rom 2:16

No wonder John writes Rev 14:6-12 the way that he does.

SabbathBlessings said:

Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Exo20:11

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true

BobRyan said:

Paul of course also says 'God will judge the secrets of mankind through Jesus Christ, according to my GOSPEL" Rom 2:16

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Yes, God's gospel includes fear God, give Him glory, worship Him, keep His commandments, keep the faith of Jesus- His hour of judgement has come. Rev14:6-12

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Judgment is only bad when we are condemned. But its part of the everlasting gospel because it reconciles those who are in Christ back to Him forevermore

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The Liturgist said:

Are you saying those three verses are the entirety of the Gospel

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The gospel is infinite in its scope and effect. it will take all of eternity to fully comprehend it yet it is simple enough for a child to get the point.

SabbathBlessings said:

Yes, God's gospel is fear God, give Him glory, worship Him, keep His commandments, keep the faith of Jesus- His hour of judgement has come. Rev14:6-12

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

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SabbathBlessings said:

Judgment is only bad when we are condemned. But its part of the everlasting gospel because it reconciles those who are in Christ back to Him forevermore

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

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It is bad for the wicked and good for the saints according to Dan 7.

throughfierytrial said:

Helpful info…wish you would have quoted their 3 angels messages …even more helpful… thank you!

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yep. God's three angel's messages in Rev 14... very helpful!

BobRyan said:

It is bad for the wicked and good for the saints according to Dan 7.

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Yes, and this is where I think many go wrong, they look at what is wicked by their standard and not God's. God's ways are above our ways Isa 55:9 and He said this in the same breath as Isa 56:1-2 comparing man of doing righteousness from doing evil and His invitation for everyone come to the waters Isa55:1 and for everyone to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6 because we do not want to miss out on this Isa66:22-23

Jipsah said:

given that "private opinions" of the Revelation are precisely what most :End Times" doctrines are based on.

Along with a lot of stuff that was never accepted into the Canon of Scripture that is accepted by the Church as a

And from a practical standpoint, just accept, or contrive, a "meaning" for a text that best suits your doctrinal presuppositions.

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you are simply posting "wishful thinking". That only works for the surface readers that merely skim past the texts that don't meet with their preferences.

It is more helpful to have a "Bible fact" when reading a Bible text like Rev 14 or any other text of scripture.

SabbathBlessings said:

I am saying what the Scripture states, its the everlasting gospel which there is only one gospel.

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Exo20:11

Why anyone would want to argue against only worshipping God the right way as He asks, as not being the everlasting gospel is beyond me, but to each their own. Its been the same issue from the beginning, man thinks they know better than God and wants to do things their way instead of how God says, its the story in the Bible over and over again and sadly man has not learned from the same example of disobedience Heb4:11. They want all of God's blessings on their terms, not God's Isa 56:2 they want to serve God on their terms, not how God asks Isa 56:6 this message is trying to get people back to what God said Exo20:6 Rev14:12 fearing God Exo20:20 Ecc3:14 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev14:6-7 over fearing God through the teachings of mans traditions Isa29:13 which Jesus condemned Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13

This is the same gospel message given to poor Jeremiah who was commissioned to go to God's people who professed God with their mouth, but in action served another god. Jeremiah was scoffed at, had death threats, his own family plotted to kill him, his message from God rejected by the leaders of the church and practically everyone, he was beaten, imprisoned until God had enough. God withdrew His protection from the professed people of God, many of them died and the rest were captured by Babylon.

This is God's end time message to get back to obeying God, fear God, give Him glory and worship Him, which is shown on the first tablet of stone that was written by God, how He tells us to love Him Exo20:6 that's inside God's ark also in heaven Rev11:19, whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16 so if we are not obeying what God says Exo20:1-17 James2:11 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 Exo20:6 Rev14:12 Rev22:14 by default we are serving another. This time when Jesus comes- we will have no more chances to change our mind, our decision sealed Rev22:11

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Firstly, I did not mention the Sabbath, nor do I concede that the verses in question actually command Sabbath observance, but if they do, you may recall my denomination actually observes the Sabbath and does so as fully as any, since our Divine Liturgy and Great Vespers and Vigils services that happen or begin on the Sabbath have the greatest attendance of any denomination, but if you wish to debate the Sabbath we must so elsewhere.

Rather, my question concerns those Christians who lived before the Apocalypse was revealed to St. John the Theologian, the Beloved Disciple, the Evangelist and Holy Apostle on the Island of Patmos?

If we’re to believe that the Gospel is only the one in the Apocalypse, what of the great many who were martyred before He was inspired to write it by God the Holy Spirit?

And for that matter how could St. Paul write under Divine Inspiration of the dangers of someone preaching another Gospel if the Gospel in its definite form had not yet been revealed?

Rather, it seems clear from Scripture, and this is not my opinion but rather that of all Christian theologians I’m aware of, that the Gospel was clear to the Apostles by the time they received the Great Commission in Matthew chapter 28.

BobRyan said:

The gospel is infinite in its scope and effect. it will take all of eternity to fully comprehend it yet it is simple enough for a child to get the point.

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That sounds grand in theory, but in actuality, if we evaluate that sequence of words using formal logic, it would mean that no one has received the Gospel.

Your second sentence in particular seems to be conflating the Good News and the meaning of that Good News with the unoriginate Divine Nature of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

The Liturgist said:

Firstly, I did not mention the Sabbath, nor do I concede that the verses in question actually command Sabbath observance, but if they do, you may recall my denomination actually observes the Sabbath and does so as fully as any, since our Divine Liturgy and Great Vespers and Vigils services that happen or begin on the Sabbath have the greatest attendance of any denomination, but if you wish to debate the Sabbath we must so elsewhere.

Rather, my question concerns those Christians who lived before the Apocalypse was revealed to St. John the Theologian, the Beloved Disciple, the Evangelist and Holy Apostle on the Island of Patmos?

If we’re to believe that the Gospel is only the one in the Apocalypse, what of the great many who were martyred before He was inspired to write it by God the Holy Spirit?

And for that matter how could St. Paul write under Divine Inspiration of the dangers of someone preaching another Gospel if the Gospel in its definite form had not yet been revealed?

Rather, it seems clear from Scripture, and this is not my opinion but rather that of all Christian theologians I’m aware of, that the Gospel was clear to the Apostles by the time they received the Great Commission in Matthew chapter 28.



That sounds grand in theory, but in actuality, if we evaluate that sequence of words using formal logic, it would mean that no one has received the Gospel.

Your second sentence in particular seems to be conflating the Good News and the meaning of that Good News with the unoriginate Divine Nature of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

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Its the everlasting gospel, so didn't start in Revelation. For me worshipping God the way He asks is good news, judgment is good news for the saints so who am I to argue with God's everlasting gospel message to get people back to serving and worshipping God the way He asks.

I am going by what the Scriptures states explicitly, one is always free to disagree. To try to debate on our ideas over what the Scripture states is never fruitful, so I will just agree to disagree.

BobRyan said:

you are simply posting "wishful thinking". That only works for the surface readers that merely skim past the texts that don't meet with their preferences.

It is more helpful to have a "Bible fact" when reading a Bible text like Rev 14 or any other text of scripture.

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Actually no, what Jipsah is posting is the established historical record of how the books of the New Testament were gathered and preserved and how the New Testament canon was derived by the Early Church Fathers, since the New Testament does, as a matter of Bible Fact lack any kind of Table of Contents (as well as any explicit indication in the earlier works of it of the later revelation that St. John would have on Patmos that is traditionally included at the end of the New Testament, by the way, in case you were unaware of this point the arrangement of the books of the New Testament is also a matter of tradition and actually varies between countries and Bible manuscripts and printed editions).

Rather it would be wishful thinking to say that there is anything in the other 26 books of the New Testament that either indicates that the Apocaylpse would be received by St. John and added to the Bible or that establishes it as the unique source of the Gospel message.

But don’t take my word for it - read any article on the history of the development of the New Testament canon. Although I seem to recall we previously had a discussion in which you seemed to disagree with the scholarly consensus that the Paschal Encyclical of St. Athanasius is the oldest known example of a document enumerating the 27 book New Testament canon, but, be that as it may, the process by which the canon was adopted is well documented and is not a matter of dispute between most Christians regardless of denomination (indeed I have even come across Mormon articles admitting that the Paschal Encyclical of St. Athanasius was the first book to enumerate the 27 book New Testament canon, which of course poses a problem considering they believe, like Landmark Baptists and other Restorationists, that the Church was in a state of “Great Apostasy” at the time. How much they must wish for some bit of marginal evidence to challenge the historical assertion, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride, and Mormon theology has always been markedly pedestrian, in contrast with the theology of Christians who affirm the Council of Nicaea over which St. Athanasius presided and its creed in the Constantinopolitan revision of 381.

SabbathBlessings said:

Its the everlasting gospel, so didn't start in Revelation.

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I didn’t say it started in revelation; since the Good News is an expression of God’s Love and Grace it is therefore an uncreated energy of God Himself.

Rather I’m speaking of the revelation of that news.

If you say that the form we need to believe in first appeared in the book you call Revelation, that I say ought to be called the Apocalypse, but six of one, half a dozen of another as they say - if that Gospel did not appear until that book, what of the Christians who lived, and were martyred or died in Christ before St. John received the Revelation on Patmos? Christians such as the Holy Protomartyr Stephen the Deacon, the first man to willingly give his life for Christ, and the Holy Apostle James the Great, and indeed the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul themselves.

Unless you’re saying knowledge of those three verses in Revelation is not required for salvation?

Which is it please?