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Teaching/working in a different church from your own

Hamlowe

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Pax et bonum, all. I am (again) looking for a new teaching gig for next year, and with my options in the Catholic school system diminishing, I'm looking at both public and non-Catholic Christian schools. I just interviewed today at a school run by a non-denominational church near me, and it got me thinking about how we ought to approach this sort of ecumenical employment situation. They explained to me that I'd have to be part of their church to be anything higher than a regular teacher, which I understand, but that they do have non-members working for them (presumably still Christians, though I didn't ask). Obviously I'm not going to be teaching religion or Biblical studies at this school, as that would cause obvious conflicts between how I believe the Bible should be interpreted and how this church believes it should be interpreted (even down to how many books there are!)

What are your thoughts? Would you work for a church not your own? Do you think it's possible for these sorts of arrangements to work on a sort of "mere Christianity" common-ground? Obviously we don't preach different gospels, but I wonder if the devil is in the details when it comes to this matter.
 

timf

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If you worked in a factory, it would be inappropriate for you to use the time they are paying you to evangelize. If you worked in a secular school, it would be inappropriate to advocate your beliefs (not that that stops those on the left). Teaching a secular subject in a Christian school whose doctrines you are not in complete agreement may not be as fulfilling, but you should still be able to make it work.

If a student asks you about your beliefs, you might respond that to answer honestly you would first need to get permission from the principal as well as the parents. This might help avoid awkward moments.
 
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DragonFox91

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I don't really agree w/ ecumenilalism, but I also learned we live in the real world, we don't live in a bubble, & we're asked to go to places our 1st choice wouldn't be. I think you will be okay
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Pax et bonum, all. I am (again) looking for a new teaching gig for next year, and with my options in the Catholic school system diminishing, I'm looking at both public and non-Catholic Christian schools. I just interviewed today at a school run by a non-denominational church near me, and it got me thinking about how we ought to approach this sort of ecumenical employment situation. They explained to me that I'd have to be part of their church to be anything higher than a regular teacher, which I understand, but that they do have non-members working for them (presumably still Christians, though I didn't ask). Obviously I'm not going to be teaching religion or Biblical studies at this school, as that would cause obvious conflicts between how I believe the Bible should be interpreted and how this church believes it should be interpreted (even down to how many books there are!)

What are your thoughts? Would you work for a church not your own? Do you think it's possible for these sorts of arrangements to work on a sort of "mere Christianity" common-ground? Obviously we don't preach different gospels, but I wonder if the devil is in the details when it comes to this matter.
I am not sure what teaching children basic studies has to do with your religious denomination. Though I understand teaching in the secular world, depending on where you live, may pose a challenge on certain subjects like science ( thanks to Darwin) everything else is pretty straightforward. That being said, I honestly don't think a protestant leaning school would be a great fit , especially if you are a practicing Catholic. You will get exposed to biblical teachings with no Roman Catholic tradition. This would definitely pose a problem in your Catholic faith. If you begin to socialize with a non denominational congregation , you will constantly be bombarded with doctrines not familiar to you.

I am just being completely honest with you because Catholicism focuses more on tradition rather than Scripture. I think you will find it confusing and probably unsettling.

Be blessed.
 
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caffeinated hermit

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Depends on what you are comfortable with. If you can kind of accept things in a general, pan-Christian way and the school isn't run by a deeply, vocally anti-Catholic denomination, hopefully it would be alright. If you're just teaching reading, writing, math, and geography (as opposed to theology), again, ideally there wouldn't be anything to clash over.
 
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PloverWing

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The devil may, indeed, be in the details, so I'll ask about some of the details. My questions are based in part on church-affiliated schools I've been involved with.

1. Are teachers at the school required to affirm a particular statement of faith? Can you affirm it? (Would they want you, for example, to affirm young earth creationism, or to reject the authority of church Tradition?)

2. Some schools actively work towards an integration of faith and learning -- explicitly incorporating Christian ideas into the classroom and the subject matter. If that's part of the school's philosophy, are you comfortable doing that in a way they would expect?

3. How much variation within Christianity does the school allow? If a student asks you a faith-related question, would the school be okay with you giving an answer like "In my Catholic tradition, we think X; many other Christians think Y or Z"?

4. What subject(s) do you teach?

In general, I'm okay with working alongside Christians from other churches/denominations, as long as they're okay with having an Episcopalian in their midst. One of my family members, also Episcopalian, teaches at a Quaker school and is very happy there. I went to a Methodist-affiliated university for grad school and was quite comfortable there. On the other hand, I would not be able to teach at my (Evangelical Protestant) undergraduate alma mater, alas, because there are a couple of points in their required statement of faith that I cannot affirm. So, details.
 
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Hamlowe

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The devil may, indeed, be in the details, so I'll ask about some of the details. My questions are based in part on church-affiliated schools I've been involved with.

1. Are teachers at the school required to affirm a particular statement of faith? Can you affirm it? (Would they want you, for example, to affirm young earth creationism, or to reject the authority of church Tradition?)

They do have a statement of faith which is pretty straightforward. The only part I'd really quibble with is referring to Christ's death as "paying the penalty" for our sin, which isn't a framework I find useful for thinking about the Atonement, but I think that's more the realm of debate than doctrine. I mentioned in the interview that I don't think it matters as much how Christ died for our sins so much as the fact that He did, and that He rose.

2. Some schools actively work towards an integration of faith and learning -- explicitly incorporating Christian ideas into the classroom and the subject matter. If that's part of the school's philosophy, are you comfortable doing that in a way they would expect?

I think so, as long as we can meet on a "mere Christian" grounding, which I mentioned in my interview.

3. How much variation within Christianity does the school allow? If a student asks you a faith-related question, would the school be okay with you giving an answer like "In my Catholic tradition, we think X; many other Christians think Y or Z"?

Not sure--I didn't think about framing the answer that way. Could be something to look at.

4. What subject(s) do you teach?

English, though I'm in the running for a history/social studies position at this school because they filled the English position before my interview.

In general, I'm okay with working alongside Christians from other churches/denominations, as long as they're okay with having an Episcopalian in their midst. One of my family members, also Episcopalian, teaches at a Quaker school and is very happy there. I went to a Methodist-affiliated university for grad school and was quite comfortable there. On the other hand, I would not be able to teach at my (Evangelical Protestant) undergraduate alma mater, alas, because there are a couple of points in their required statement of faith that I cannot affirm. So, details.

Makes sense. This place definitely doesn't seem like an anti-Catholic group, considering they at least interviewed me!
 
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PloverWing

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Given what you've said, and especially given the positive description you've given of your interview, I think this could be a good place for you to work. I hope you get the job and that all goes well for you in the coming year.
 
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The Liturgist

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What are your thoughts? Would you work for a church not your own? Do you think it's possible for these sorts of arrangements to work on a sort of "mere Christianity" common-ground? Obviously we don't preach different gospels, but I wonder if the devil is in the details when it comes to this matter.

Yes. Specifically I would work for any Nicene-compliant liturgical church upholding traditional values on human sexuality and opposed to abortion (or if in a mainline church I would work to replace its leadership), although at present I’m not well enough to work for my own church.

More specifically, I would be happiest working for Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox and to a lesser extent the Assyrian Church of the East or a Continuing Anglican or Old Catholic Church. i would have enjoyed working for the Roman Catholics before the full agenda of Pope Francis became evident, which also bolstered my preference for the Patristic polity where all bishops were equal and the patriarchs of the autocephalous churches served as the primus inter pares of their Holy Synods. Within Eastern Orthodoxy there is a formal honorific hierarchy, which is approximately something like Constantionople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Moscow, Georgia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, Poland, the Czech Lands and Slovakia, Albania, North Macedonia, and the Orthodox Church in America (I include my church last because the Greeks refuse to recognize its status as autocephaly, claiming that only the Ecumenical Patriarchate can issue a Tomos of Autocephaly, which is simply not the case). The Oriental Orthodox I believe improve on this because while each individual OO church has a hierarchy, there is no hierarchy above that level. Thus within the Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch the Patriarch outranks the Maphrian (a sort of vice-Patriarch in charge of the church of India but historically in charge of the church outside of the Roman Empire, chiefly in what is now Iraq, with the Patriarch being in charge in the Roman provinces of Syria and Syria Palestina). The Armenians likewise have a hierarchy of four autocephalous Armenian churches that are part of the larger Oriental Orthodox communion: the Catholicos of Holy Etchmiadzin and All Armenia, followed by the Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia (which originated from the period when the Byzantine Empire was protected from the Saracens by two Armenian kingdoms, Armenia proper and the Kingdom of Cilicia, which guarded the eastern parts of Asia Minor like twin fangs, but alas it was not enough to stop the Ottoman hordes), followed by the Armenian Patriarchate of Jerusalem and the Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople. However the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church, the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church, the Eritrean Tewahedo Orthodox Church (both formerly a single autonomous church under the omophorion of the Coptic Orthodox Church) and the Syriac Orthodox Church and somewhat related Malankara Orthodox Church are all equal, which I quite like.

In your case, you could work for a church the Roman Catholic Church has solid ecumenical relations with - a good way to identify those is to see which church often has local bishops or cardinals visiting. For example, the Orthodox, some Anglicans, some Old Catholics, and the Assyrian Church of the East.
 
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The Liturgist

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They do have a statement of faith which is pretty straightforward. The only part I'd really quibble with is referring to Christ's death as "paying the penalty" for our sin, which isn't a framework I find useful for thinking about the Atonement, but I think that's more the realm of debate than doctrine. I mentioned in the interview that I don't think it matters as much how Christ died for our sins so much as the fact that He did, and that He rose.



I think so, as long as we can meet on a "mere Christian" grounding, which I mentioned in my interview.



Not sure--I didn't think about framing the answer that way. Could be something to look at.



English, though I'm in the running for a history/social studies position at this school because they filled the English position before my interview.



Makes sense. This place definitely doesn't seem like an anti-Catholic group, considering they at least interviewed me!

For my part, just to reiterate my two previous posts, “Mere Christianity” isn’t enough and wouldn’t be if I had joined the RCC (which I almost did). By the way did you know the canons of the RCC allow Orthodox to receive the Eucharist and vice versa? In practice this only regularly happens in a few places in the Islamic countries, such as at a Syriac Orthoox church in Turkey.

But any traditional liturgial church would suffice.
 
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PloverWing

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Yes. Specifically I would work for any Nicene-compliant liturgical church upholding traditional values on human sexuality and opposed to abortion (or if in a mainline church I would work to replace its leadership), although at present I’m not well enough to work for my own church.

You're clergy, if I recall correctly, so the requirements would be stricter there. Suppose if, like the OP, you were considering a lay role in a religiously-affiliated school -- a history teacher, an office clerical worker, IT department staff, something like that. Would that change your answer?
 
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Bob Crowley

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What are your thoughts? Would you work for a church not your own? Do you think it's possible for these sorts of arrangements to work on a sort of "mere Christianity" common-ground? Obviously we don't preach different gospels, but I wonder if the devil is in the details when it comes to this matter.
I'm not a teacher and the Australian religious scene is different from the US. At our local Catholic school most of the teachers aren't Catholic, and I'm not even sure if most of them are Christian.

Catholic Schools here have Assistant Principals RE (Religious Education) so I imagine a lot of the religious education falls on them and the local priest. The students do attend mass once a week (I think) but when you consider how many young "Catholics" stop going to church once they get past their school years, you have to wonder how effective it all is.

That's probably not much use to you but I can see difficulties in your situation. The tolerance level is going to depend on how ecumenical a particular church school is.
 
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The Liturgist

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You're clergy, if I recall correctly, so the requirements would be stricter there. Suppose if, like the OP, you were considering a lay role in a religiously-affiliated school -- a history teacher, an office clerical worker, IT department staff, something like that. Would that change your answer?

No, it wouldn’t; I won’t materially assist a church that I have a fundamental disagreement with.

Now as regards the Episcopal Church, there are some dioceses I would happily work for in a variety of capacities if I felt better and had the qualifications; I would also teach a non-musical subject at any Episcopal school, since I agree with the BCP and the doctrine contained within it in principle, my main gripe is with how that doctrine is interpreted but I would work for Episcopalians without raising a fuss because one must have a sense of priorities, and for the moment the Episcopal Church is mostly aligned with what I care about, depending on the diocese (there are a few dioceses I would not have anything to do with, to be clear, and a few parishes likewise, but for most of your denomination, because of the BCP and the toleration that still exists in most places for moderate and traditional Episcopalians and also because I really do care about the long term future of the Episcopal Church - there are disturbingly some conservative Protestants who want the Episcopal Church to fail and I’m not one of them (I’m also very sad about the church apparently needing to sell its headquarters building; for my part I wish it could retain that as a strategic real estate asset that could also be used for housing - there is so much good the church could do with New York real estate = if I were the bishop of New York I would lease some of the land around St. John’s to build a skyscraper dedicated to affordable housing (which to finance it would probably require building a luxury skyscraper as well but that’s how these things go; what would be ideal however would be an urban vertical community like the John Hancock Center in Chicago, which I love because it features offices as well as apartments.
 
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PloverWing

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I’m also very sad about the church apparently needing to sell its headquarters building; for my part I wish it could retain that as a strategic real estate asset that could also be used for housing - there is so much good the church could do with New York real estate = if I were the bishop of New York I would lease some of the land around St. John’s to build a skyscraper dedicated to affordable housing

I am pleased to inform that the Episcopal Church has thought of a possibility like this as well. From the Episcopal Church's website:
"The church hopes to enter into a long-term ground lease with a group that would redevelop the building, potentially as affordable housing." (Presiding bishop authorizes marketing of Episcopal Church Center building in New York City)
 
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High Fidelity

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Well, there's a clear and obvious ceiling to the progression there, so it's down to whether you're OK with it being a temporary job until you can find something more suitable, or you compromise on your beliefs.

Personally I don't see why anyone in your position would take the job, unless they had pressing financial needs or it was purely transactional for experience.
 
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