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Confused about the moral law

mikechristianforumsusr

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I am looking for some help with my ever-growing confusion with Christianity and the moral law. I feel like I'm being torn in two opposite yet similar directions.

On the one hand, sin separating us from God is a core belief of Christianity for why Jesus came to earth and died. Sin then implies that there are things which we do which are "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and thing that we do which are "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful). This then further implies that there are rules of some kind which must exist to define what is "right" from what is "wrong". However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow. This description is increasingly making less and less sense to me because for all the emphasis Christians put on the "relationship", there seems to be an awful number of "rules" people want you to follow. However, when pressed and asked what those rules are, no one can give them, and if they do, certainly different people do not agree.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions. Paul also implies the opposite, where if you and God have essentially "worked it out" that something is "right", then it is.

These two points of view are seemingly completely opposite from one another, and I have no idea how to reconcile them. I think "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful) exist and there is a line between that that exists "somewhere", but where do we find that line? And please don't say, it's in the Bible. That's a cop out.
 

Reluctant Theologian

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I am looking for some help with my ever-growing confusion with Christianity and the moral law. I feel like I'm being torn in two opposite yet similar directions.

On the one hand, sin separating us from God is a core belief of Christianity for why Jesus came to earth and died. Sin then implies that there are things which we do which are "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and thing that we do which are "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful). This then further implies that there are rules of some kind which must exist to define what is "right" from what is "wrong". However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow. This description is increasingly making less and less sense to me because for all the emphasis Christians put on the "relationship", there seems to be an awful number of "rules" people want you to follow. However, when pressed and asked what those rules are, no one can give them, and if they do, certainly different people do not agree.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions. Paul also implies the opposite, where if you and God have essentially "worked it out" that something is "right", then it is.

These two points of view are seemingly completely opposite from one another, and I have no idea how to reconcile them. I think "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful) exist and there is a line between that that exists "somewhere", but where do we find that line? And please don't say, it's in the Bible. That's a cop out.
Acts 15 outlines several 'rules' for Gentile believers, and throughout Paul's letters one can find implicit rules - i.e. certain classes of people do not inherit the kingdom of God - which means true believers have to behave like the opposite. And most Christians would argue 9 out of 10 of the Ten Words/Commandments also apply to Gentile believers .. so the 'rules' are there.

For the other area I think Paul is referring to certain principles/standards for which there is some personal flexibility - like drinking alchohol, celebrating Sabbaths/Moons/Biblical festivals, eating meat that may have been slaughtered in an idol setting.

God gives instructions/guidance/rules for life - we find that in the entire Torah and generally throughout the Bible - the people of God are supposed to listen (= do) what God tells us to do as that is what pleases Him.
 

SabbathBlessings

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I am looking for some help with my ever-growing confusion with Christianity and the moral law. I feel like I'm being torn in two opposite yet similar directions.

On the one hand, sin separating us from God is a core belief of Christianity for why Jesus came to earth and died. Sin then implies that there are things which we do which are "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and thing that we do which are "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful). This then further implies that there are rules of some kind which must exist to define what is "right" from what is "wrong". However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow. This description is increasingly making less and less sense to me because for all the emphasis Christians put on the "relationship", there seems to be an awful number of "rules" people want you to follow. However, when pressed and asked what those rules are, no one can give them, and if they do, certainly different people do not agree.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions. Paul also implies the opposite, where if you and God have essentially "worked it out" that something is "right", then it is.

These two points of view are seemingly completely opposite from one another, and I have no idea how to reconcile them. I think "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful) exist and there is a line between that that exists "somewhere", but where do we find that line? And please don't say, it's in the Bible. That's a cop out.

This is how I reconcile the Bible and I believe Paul did as well.

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone [a]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

If we keep everything according to Christ, make Him our Rock, place no one above Him, it makes the Bible much easier to understand on harder Scriptures or ones that seem in contradiction. Reconcile Paul to Christ not Christ to Paul. Christ is God. Paul is a professed servant of God Rom1:1 and a servant is not greater than their master John13:16 Paul served God how God asked Isa 56:6 Acts 17:4 Acts 18:4 1Cor7:19 So Scriptures that may seem to say something different, where Paul contradicts God, is a great chance out of context and would be happy to go through any Scriptures you might have like this.

Sin according to the Bible is this:

1 John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2: 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

What is He who said that is being quoted?

The Ten Commandments, written by God, spoken by God Exo31:18 what is under His mercy seat that His blood atones for Exo25:21 and in heaven Rev11:19

The Ten Commandments​

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lordyour God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generationsof those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Sadly many people will pluck out the commandment that God said Remember, but man teaches to forget, and this is the commandment that identifies the God we are to apply the rest of the commandments to Exo20:11, so removing it, we can apply the commandments to whatever god we like. The God of Creation Exo20:11 Blessed and sanctified the Sabbath day and blesses the man who keeps it Isa 56:1-2 and no man can take away God’s blessings Num23:20 they sadly only can forfeit their own Psa 37:22

What God deems as righteousness Psa 119:172 as He did keeping the Sabbath Isa 56:1-2 stays righteousness until the very end of time Rev22:11 because God’s righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142 its the foundation of God’s throne Psa 89:14 where His commandments are Rev11:19 unedited because who can edit God? No one. Ecc3:14 Psa 89:34 they can only try Dan7:25 and we are told whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV

Jesus tells mankind how to live - by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Mat4:4 if we stick with what God says Exo20:1-17 Jer7:22-23 Isa 56:6 Exo20:6 Rev14:12 He will lead us on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev22:14

God Bless!
 
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jacks

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Matthew 22:34–40

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
 

SabbathBlessings

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Matthew 22:34–40

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
Amen! Jesus was quoting OT, this was quoted 40 years after God wrote out His Ten Commandments and it was repeated to the people of God before they were to cross over to the Promised land to diligently keep and teach their children to keep. This was the condition of receiving their inheritance to love God with all their heart mind and soul to fear God and keep His commandments Deut 6:1-9 mans whole duty Ecc12:13-14 sadly almost a whole generation did not love God with all their heart and did not keep His commandments and ended up outside the promise land Eze20:15-16

We are called not to harden our hearts like those in the trail of the wilderness Heb 3:7-19 and not follow in their same example of disobedience Heb4:11 and why we are being called back to the everlasting gospel to fear God, give glory to Him, worship Him and keep His commandments Rev14:6-12 so we can receive our inheritance our promise land and enter through the gates Rev22:14 and be with Jesus forevermore. 1 Thess4:17
 
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Mark Quayle

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I am looking for some help with my ever-growing confusion with Christianity and the moral law. I feel like I'm being torn in two opposite yet similar directions.

On the one hand, sin separating us from God is a core belief of Christianity for why Jesus came to earth and died. Sin then implies that there are things which we do which are "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and thing that we do which are "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful). This then further implies that there are rules of some kind which must exist to define what is "right" from what is "wrong". However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow. This description is increasingly making less and less sense to me because for all the emphasis Christians put on the "relationship", there seems to be an awful number of "rules" people want you to follow. However, when pressed and asked what those rules are, no one can give them, and if they do, certainly different people do not agree.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions. Paul also implies the opposite, where if you and God have essentially "worked it out" that something is "right", then it is.

These two points of view are seemingly completely opposite from one another, and I have no idea how to reconcile them. I think "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful) exist and there is a line between that that exists "somewhere", but where do we find that line? And please don't say, it's in the Bible. That's a cop out.
The question is being asked wrong, assuming things that are not so.

You are not looking at the core of what sin is. You are looking at sins, plural, or even at any one sin. Sin is more than that. It is the corruption that pervades mankind and all his choices. It is not just wrong—it is his nature that is faulty, corrupt.

Let me try to describe the pain, here. We are not even capable of choosing what is right to do. It is not that what we choose is not the better choice, but that in and of itself, it does not relieve us of the fact that we choose that in opposition to God being the owner of all fact. WE want to choose. WE want to be in charge. WE want to assert ability and independence from God. WE want to use God, instead of being used by him.

Thus, everything we do, choose, pursue, all that we think is good, is corrupt, and has sin (rebellion against God) at its core, unless and until God changes our nature from rebellion against him to love for him, death to life. THAT is God's doing. We don't have the ability.

This life is not about right vs wrong. It is about coming to know Christ. More than that, it is about Christ himself, not about us.
 
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A New Dawn

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I am looking for some help with my ever-growing confusion with Christianity and the moral law. I feel like I'm being torn in two opposite yet similar directions.

On the one hand, sin separating us from God is a core belief of Christianity for why Jesus came to earth and died. Sin then implies that there are things which we do which are "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and thing that we do which are "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful). This then further implies that there are rules of some kind which must exist to define what is "right" from what is "wrong". However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow. This description is increasingly making less and less sense to me because for all the emphasis Christians put on the "relationship", there seems to be an awful number of "rules" people want you to follow. However, when pressed and asked what those rules are, no one can give them, and if they do, certainly different people do not agree.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions. Paul also implies the opposite, where if you and God have essentially "worked it out" that something is "right", then it is.

These two points of view are seemingly completely opposite from one another, and I have no idea how to reconcile them. I think "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful) exist and there is a line between that that exists "somewhere", but where do we find that line? And please don't say, it's in the Bible. That's a cop out.
Several of the posts above cover most of the answers that should help guide you. The post directly above mine is really good as identifying the problem with sin, how the corruption it causes makes it hard for us to see how much we really are affected by it. And another poster pointed out the two greatest commandments that we are instructed to observe by Christ, but what I think still needs to be mentioned is that when we become believers, God takes out our hardened heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh that he pours his love into, and turns our nature and our will to himself so that we agree with him that sin needs to be put off, and gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit to help guide us and conform us to the image of Christ.

So it is a relationship, but it is not a relationship where we remain static, God is ever pulling us towards Himself, and we respond by understanding the nature of sin (which is often described as anything that stands between us and God, and that is often different from person to person) and seek to put it out of our lives.

One of the things that I have to confront as a sin that is not something that most people have to confront is that I was in a (Christian) cult that God pulled me out of about 20 years ago, but to this day, the desire to return is strong. I often feel that as long as I don’t deny the truths I know now, I think it would be OK to return. But there is Biblical admonition against not looking back because that is hevel (futility, or smoke/mist). So that’s something I need to address as sin and put it off, but it is not a sin that most people have to worry about.
 
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zippy2006

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However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow.
For the ancient expressions of Christianity it is both, not one or the other. For Evangelicalism it is a confused attempt to have one without the other.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions.
For Paul if someone thinks something is wrong when it is not in fact wrong, then it is sinful for them. But Paul does not say that if someone thinks something is right when it is not in fact right, then it is righteous for them. In fact Paul would reject this second approach. So the "my truth" idea only goes in one direction (i.e. the direction where the act is not wrong but is mistakenly believed to be wrong).
 
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Soyeong

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I am looking for some help with my ever-growing confusion with Christianity and the moral law. I feel like I'm being torn in two opposite yet similar directions.

On the one hand, sin separating us from God is a core belief of Christianity for why Jesus came to earth and died. Sin then implies that there are things which we do which are "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and thing that we do which are "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful). This then further implies that there are rules of some kind which must exist to define what is "right" from what is "wrong". However, Christianity is always described as a relationship with God, not a set of rules to follow. This description is increasingly making less and less sense to me because for all the emphasis Christians put on the "relationship", there seems to be an awful number of "rules" people want you to follow. However, when pressed and asked what those rules are, no one can give them, and if they do, certainly different people do not agree.

On the other hand, Christianity also has within Paul's writings the roots of the idea which is commonly referred to as "my truth". Paul implies in Romans that if someone considered something sinful then it is sinful to them and we are not acting in love toward that person if we just ignore their personal convictions. Paul also implies the opposite, where if you and God have essentially "worked it out" that something is "right", then it is.

These two points of view are seemingly completely opposite from one another, and I have no idea how to reconcile them. I think "right" (aka righteous or non-sinful) and "wrong" (aka unrighteous, or sinful) exist and there is a line between that that exists "somewhere", but where do we find that line? And please don't say, it's in the Bible. That's a cop out.
The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by having the experience of embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to experience an intimate relationship with God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.

To know God is to know truth. An arrow flies true when it hits its mark, our mark is to walk in God’s way, and God’s law is truth (Psalms 119:142) because it was given to teach us how to walk in God’s way (1 Kings 2:1-3) while sin is missing the mark, sin is what is contrary to God’s character traits, and sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 3:4). The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13) and of leading us to obey God’s law (Ezekiel 36:26-27) because God’s character traits are the fruits of the Spirit. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God’s law, so he is the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-11).

Morality is also based on God's character traits, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Legislators give laws in accordance with their understanding of morality, so to suggest that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to suggest that God made a moral error when He gave those laws.
 
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Soyeong

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Acts 15 outlines several 'rules' for Gentile believers, and throughout Paul's letters one can find implicit rules - i.e. certain classes of people do not inherit the kingdom of God - which means true believers have to behave like the opposite. And most Christians would argue 9 out of 10 of the Ten Words/Commandments also apply to Gentile believers .. so the 'rules' are there.

For the other area I think Paul is referring to certain principles/standards for which there is some personal flexibility - like drinking alchohol, celebrating Sabbaths/Moons/Biblical festivals, eating meat that may have been slaughtered in an idol setting.

God gives instructions/guidance/rules for life - we find that in the entire Torah and generally throughout the Bible - the people of God are supposed to listen (= do) what God tells us to do as that is what pleases Him.
Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list for mature believers or it does not, so it would be contradictory to treat it as being an exhaustive list in order to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being a non-exhaustive list by taking the position that there are obviously laws that Gentiles should follow. In Matthew 4:4, Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
 
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Lukaris

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The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments. Prior to His salvation we could not do this properly like in the Pharisee who justified himself ( Luke 18:9-14) or the confused rich young man ( Matthew 19:16-30).

The Lord put everything in order for us to be spiritually guided by His commandments and trust in Him ( John 3:16-21, John 14:15-18 etc.). Note Romans 13:1-14 for general overall living & verses 8-10 as compared to what the Lord originally told the rich young man. All of the Apostles proclaimed salvation by grace ( Acts 15:11, per the overall situation in Acts 15:1-29). Paul tells us salvation by grace lived out in good works ( there is to be no boasting) in Ephesians 2:8-10. The repentant thief on the cross did a good work; he tried to warn the other thief ( Luke 23:39-43).
 
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mikechristianforumsusr

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The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments. Prior to His salvation we could not do this properly like in the Pharisee who justified himself ( Luke 18:9-14) or the confused rich young man ( Matthew 19:16-30).

The Lord put everything in order for us to be spiritually guided by His commandments and trust in Him ( John 3:16-21, John 14:15-18 etc.). Note Romans 13:1-14 for general overall living & verses 8-10 as compared to what the Lord originally told the rich young man. All of the Apostles proclaimed salvation by grace ( Acts 15:11, per the overall situation in Acts 15:1-29). Paul tells us salvation by grace lived out in good works ( there is to be no boasting) in Ephesians 2:8-10. The repentant thief on the cross did a good work; he tried to warn the other thief ( Luke 23:39-43).
>> The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments.
But which ones are "His commandments"? From my studies it seems to me Jesus' emphasis was on what we call the 10 commandments. But no one every comes out and specifically says "the 10 commandments". Instead, what's said is the vague phrase "His commandments" which, in my mind, can mean possibly the entire Mosaic law and then some. Deuteronomy 22:22 states those caught in adultery are to be put to death. Is this a command we should be obeying? Most would say, "no". But if that's the case, why not obey this command but others we need to obey. I've also heard that something like Deuteronomy 22:22 is part of "the law" but the "10 commandments" are something separate from the law. So, while it's good to have the "keep His commandments" statement, it's still not clear what that actually is.
 
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mikechristianforumsusr

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For the ancient expressions of Christianity it is both, not one or the other. For Evangelicalism it is a confused attempt to have one without the other.


For Paul if someone thinks something is wrong when it is not in fact wrong, then it is sinful for them. But Paul does not say that if someone thinks something is right when it is not in fact right, then it is righteous for them. In fact Paul would reject this second approach. So the "my truth" idea only goes in one direction (i.e. the direction where the act is not wrong but is mistakenly believed to be wrong).
As far as I can interpret, Paul quite clearly states a case for both directions.
 
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Lukaris

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>> The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments.
But which ones are "His commandments"? From my studies it seems to me Jesus' emphasis was on what we call the 10 commandments. But no one ever comes out and specifically says "the 10 commandments". Instead, what's said is the vague phrase "His commandments" which, in my mind, can mean possibly the entire Mosaic law and then some. Deuteronomy 22:22 states those caught in adultery are to be put to death. Is this a command we should be obeying? Most would say, "no". But if that's the case, why not obey this command but others we need to obey. I've also heard that something like Deuteronomy 22:22 is part of "the law" but the "10 commandments" are something separate from the law. So, while it's good to have the "keep His commandments" statement, it's still not clear what that actually is.
I have found studying Leviticus 18, 19, & 20 helpful to get the core of the moral law.
Then reading the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5, 6, & 7. Within the Sermon I look at the golden rule of Matthew 7:12 but also carefully read Matthew 7:1-11 leading into it. I also carefully read the 2 great commandments in Matthew 22:36-40 ( love God & neighbor). Note the golden rule is the summation of the law & prophets and the 2 great commandments are those on which the law & prophets depend. The Lord still affirms the moral law in the Gospel but since He became man, He has clarified how we must live by it. Look at Matthew 15:1-20, the Lord doesn’t say washing our hands is wrong but the law is spiritual ( as Paul later said per Romans 7:14) and not determined by man made tradition & ritualism & the commandments are evident here.

Then I carefully study Romans 1, 2, & 3. Read all of each chapter of course and look at Romans 1:18-32, Paul is also affirming much of what is said as immorality that Moses said back in Leviticus but he was given the Gospel directly by the Lord & it must be understood in line with the Gospel of the hope for mercy & forgiveness. The prophets were testifying towards this ( for ex. Micah 6:6-8). Look at Romans 3, and take note if Romans 3:21-28 which shows we must not discard the law & prophets but the righteousness of God in the Lord is revealed beyond the law & prophets but they are His witness.

Also look at Galatians 5 and then read Romans 13 to see how much of this ties together in the ultimate truth ( Galatians 5) & daily living aspect ( Romans 13).
 
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Mark Quayle

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>> The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments.
But which ones are "His commandments"? From my studies it seems to me Jesus' emphasis was on what we call the 10 commandments. But no one every comes out and specifically says "the 10 commandments". Instead, what's said is the vague phrase "His commandments" which, in my mind, can mean possibly the entire Mosaic law and then some. Deuteronomy 22:22 states those caught in adultery are to be put to death. Is this a command we should be obeying? Most would say, "no". But if that's the case, why not obey this command but others we need to obey. I've also heard that something like Deuteronomy 22:22 is part of "the law" but the "10 commandments" are something separate from the law. So, while it's good to have the "keep His commandments" statement, it's still not clear what that actually is.
It might be worth mentioning that Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery.
 
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Hentenza

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Amen! Jesus was quoting OT, this was quoted 40 years after God wrote out His Ten Commandments and it was repeated to the people of God before they were to cross over to the Promised land to diligently keep and teach their children to keep.
Jesus does not agree with you.

“I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all people will know that you are My disciples: if you have love for one another.””
‭‭John‬ ‭13‬:‭34‬-‭35‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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Hentenza

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>> The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments.
But which ones are "His commandments"? From my studies it seems to me Jesus' emphasis was on what we call the 10 commandments. But no one ever comes out and specifically says "the 10 commandments". Instead, what's said is the vague phrase "His commandments" which, in my mind, can mean possibly the entire Mosaic law and then some. Deuteronomy 22:22 states those caught in adultery are to be put to death. Is this a command we should be obeying? Most would say, "no". But if that's the case, why not obey this command but others we need to obey. I've also heard that something like Deuteronomy 22:22 is part of "the law" but the "10 commandments" are something separate from the law. So, while it's good to have the "keep His commandments" statement, it's still not clear what that actually is.
The Bible is explicit that Jesus is telling us to keep His two love commandments that He gave the Christian and from which all of the law and the prophets hang from. Believers are not under the Mosaic law which was given to only Israel (Deut. 5), Acts 15 makes this totally clear, and Paul tells us that he is not under the law either (1 Cor. 9:20).
 
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zippy2006

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As far as I can interpret, Paul quite clearly states a case for both directions.
What text of Paul's do you believe supports the direction where what is sinful becomes non-sinful if one simply believes that it is non-sinful?
 
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Soyeong

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>> The Lord clearly wants us to keep His commandments.
But which ones are "His commandments"? From my studies it seems to me Jesus' emphasis was on what we call the 10 commandments. But no one every comes out and specifically says "the 10 commandments". Instead, what's said is the vague phrase "His commandments" which, in my mind, can mean possibly the entire Mosaic law and then some. Deuteronomy 22:22 states those caught in adultery are to be put to death. Is this a command we should be obeying? Most would say, "no". But if that's the case, why not obey this command but others we need to obey. I've also heard that something like Deuteronomy 22:22 is part of "the law" but the "10 commandments" are something separate from the law. So, while it's good to have the "keep His commandments" statement, it's still not clear what that actually is.
"God's commandments" should generally be interrupted as referring too the set of commandments that God has given unless context supports that it is only referring to a specific subset of the commandments that God has given. The Law of God does not instruct for us to put to death anyone that we see committing adultery, but rather it instructs there to be due process, such as bring both the man and the woman accused of adultery before the Sanhedrin, with no one being putting to death without at least two or three witness, and with the witness throwing the first stones.
 
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Soyeong

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Jesus does not agree with you.

“I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all people will know that you are My disciples: if you have love for one another.””
‭‭John‬ ‭13‬:‭34‬-‭35‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
There is nothing brand new about the command to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), but what is new about the command is the quality of the example by which we are to love our neighbor, and in deed the Greek word used refers to newness with respect to quality rather than to newness with respect to time:

3501 /néos ("new on the scene") suggests something "new in time" – in contrast to its near-synonym (2537 /kainós, "new in quality").

In order to correctly know how to love our neighbor as ourselves we need to know how we should love ourselves and the answer to that is that we should love ourselves as Christ loves us, which is therefore also how we are to love our neighbor as ourselves. So Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by adding a brand new law, but rather he was fulfilling the law by teaching how to correctly obey it.

The Bible is explicit that Jesus is telling us to keep His two love commandments that He gave the Christian and from which all of the law and the prophets hang from. Believers are not under the Mosaic law which was given to only Israel (Deut. 5), Acts 15 makes this totally clear, and Paul tells us that he is not under the law either (1 Cor. 9:20).
The reason why the commandments to love God and our neighbor are the greatest two commandments is because they are inclusive of all of the other commandments, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if someone thought that they only needed to love God and their neighbor, so they didn't need to keep the Sabbath holy or refrain from committing idolatry, murder, adultery, theft, kidnapping, rape, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law, then they would have an incomplete understanding of what it means to love God and our neighbor. The greatest two commandments are much easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us the rest of the Mosaic Law to flesh out what it looks like to correctly obey them. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the Law of Moses would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of the Law of Moses because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. Moreover, the way to obey the greatest commandment in the Bible is essentially by being zealous for teaching obedience to the Law of Moses (Deuteronomy 6:4-7).

Israel was given the Law of Moses in order to spread the knowledge of God to the world in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, not so that they would keep the knowledge of God to themselves. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, so Acts 15 should not be interpreted as speaking against being followers of Christ. In 1 Corinthian 9:21, Paul equated saying that he was not outside the Law of God with saying that he was under the Law of Christ.
 
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