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Congress passes the largest housing affordability bill in decades
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Uh-huh. "Just one guy" until another gets pointed out, then another, then another. This is the way this topic usually works:
"There's no election fraud."
"What about that guy who got convicted of voter fraud?"
"That was just one guy."
"Then there was that guy who-"
"That was just another guy."
"And what about-"
"Okay! There's fraud but its so small that it doesn't matter!"
And, of course, since elections aren't audited, we have to take it on faith that the cases of voter fraud that we know isn't just the tip of an iceberg.
Regardless, it always starts with the argument by assertion that there is no fraud. Always.,
A2SG
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Please note what I said. You even quoted this part:
Sure, we can from time to time find a few scattered examples of individuals committing fraud, usually voting for Trump it seems, but no one has yet turned up the evidence for massive voter fraud sufficient to rig a national election.
No one has claimed there are exactly zero cases of election fraud. No one.
And no one has produced evidence of massive voter fraud, sufficient to rig a national election, despite some claiming to have it.
Y'know, stuff like that could lead someone to think it's all an excuse being used to actually perpetrate the real rigging of an election. Stranger things have happened. Like, oh I don't know, an attempt to substitute fake electors, or storming the Capitol to delay the certification of an election, just as examples.
Ever hear of the slippery slope fallacy?
-- A2SG, it's all the rage these days, it seems.....
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From 2018
Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud
Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud
PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.
apnews.com
PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.
In a letter to Vice President Mike Pence and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who are both Republicans and led the commission, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said the documents show there was a “pre-ordained outcome” and that drafts of a commission report included a section on evidence of voter fraud that was “glaringly empty.”
“It’s calling into the darkness, looking for voter fraud,” Dunlap, a Democrat, told The Associated Press. “There’s no real evidence of it anywhere.”
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Bradskii
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Your claims are just that. They remain claims until backed up with facts. If I said 'Hey, go check the internet, it's not my job to back up what I'm saying' or 'I gave some links to evidence once before in another thread sometime ago on another subject - go find them', then you'd treat my 'claims' with the contempt that they'd deserve.
For example, if I said that there was no fraud in US elections that would have any effect whatsoever on the results, then that's simply a claim. If I detail umpteen surveys that show exactly that, then it becomes a fact. Keep reading to see how it works...
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Bradskii
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...and this is how it should work:
That's what a lot of people say. And that's what the evidence shows. Here's details on one or two studies from here: Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth
- The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
- A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
- A 2017 analysis published in The Washington Post concluded that there is no evidence to support Trump’s claim that Massachusetts residents were bused into New Hampshire to vote.
- A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
- Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000–2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012–2016.
- A review of the 2016 election found four documented cases of voter fraud.
- Research into the 2016 election found no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
- A 2016 working paper concluded that the upper limit on double voting in the 2012 election was 0.02%. The paper noted that the incident rate was likely much lower, given audits conducted by the researchers showed that “many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error.”
- A 2014 paper concluded that “the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”
- A 2014 nationwide study found “no evidence of widespread impersonation fraud” in the 2012 election.
- A 2014 study that examined impersonation fraud both at the polls and by mail ballot found zero instances in the jurisdictions studied.
- A 2014 study by the non-partisan Government Accountability Office, which reflected a literature review of the existing research on voter fraud, noted that the studies consistently found “few instances of in-person voter fraud.”
- While writing a 2012 book, a researcher went back 30 years to try to find an example of voter impersonation fraud determining the outcome of an election, but was unable to find even one.
- A 2012 study exhaustively pulled records from every state for all alleged election fraud, and found the overall fraud rate to be “infinitesimal” and impersonation fraud by voters at the polls to be the rarest fraud of all: only 10 cases alleged in 12 years. The same study found only 56 alleged cases of non-citizen voting, in 12 years.
- A 2012 assessment of Georgia’s 2006 election found “no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants.”
- A 2011 study by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that, between 2000 and 2010, 21 states had 1 or 0 convictions for voter fraud or other kinds of voting irregularities.
- A 2010 book cataloguing reported incidents of voter fraud concluded that nearly all allegations turned out to be clerical errors or mistakes, not fraud.
- A 2009 analysis examined 12 states and found that fraud by voters was “very rare,” and also concluded that many of the cases that garnered media attention were ultimately unsubstantiated upon further review.
- Additional research on noncitizen voting can be found here: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-noncitizen-voting-vanishingly-rare.
- Additional resources can be found here: Analysis and Reports.
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- Oct 17, 2011
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Speaker Johnson sends bipartisan housing bill to White House
“Big deal,” Trump said sarcastically of the legislation. “It’s a yawn.”“It’s very bipartisan — that means the Democrats like it,” he said. “They’re getting things that I wouldn’t necessarily agree to.”
Speaker Mike Johnson transmitted the housing affordability bill to the White House on Monday, according to a spokesperson for the Louisiana Republican, kicking off a 10-day countdown for the bill to become law, even if the president does not sign it.
A source familiar with the matter said Trump is unlikely to sign the bill, though they noted that “he could always have a change of heart.” The source said Trump will not veto the bill either — he’d simply allow it to become law after the 10 days.
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Bradskii
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He'd fit in with a few people here on the forum. They think that whatever Trump wants must be right. And he thinks that whatever the Dems want must be wrong.
How do you run a country when people think like this?
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Speaker concedes defeat.
Speaker Johnson abandons floor agenda, sends members home early amid GOP rebellion
A small group of GOP hardliners, led by firebrand Rep. Anna Paulina Luna of Florida, effectively seized the floor from Johnson this week, refusing to allow him to move on their own party’s priorities until Republican leaders come up with a plan to pass President Donald Trump’s federal elections overhaul bill.By Tuesday afternoon, Johnson was forced into one of the most humiliating possible positions for a House speaker: He conceded he could not regain control of the chamber and instructed members to leave Washington early. It’s the second straight week that GOP leaders have had to scrap their plans, this time losing out on nearly an entire week’s agenda.
The House is not scheduled to return until mid-July — leaving just two more scheduled weeks of work before the August recess. And it may sink the GOP’s path to passing a tranche of Trump’s agenda this month — including billions in Pentagon funding for the Iran war — as Johnson and his team had planned.
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- Oct 17, 2011
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[Newsmax host] KENZIE BEACH: Let’s start with the housing bill. So once Congress officially sends this to the White House, the president has 10 days to either sign it, veto it, or do nothing here. So where it becomes a law without a signature. Now, the president tweeted that he doesn’t like some elements of this bill. You were one of 32 House Republicans to vote against the Senate version. So if he vetoes it, what do you think happens here?
REP. RANDY FINE: Well, I don’t know. I mean, look, my issue was if Elizabeth Warren thinks a bill is great, then it probably isn’t. And that’s sort of how I look at it. The enthusiasm with which Democrats had for this bill got me spooked. And I didn’t come to Washington to work with Democrats. I came to Washington to beat them. So that was where I was. As for the president, he’ll do what he thinks is best, and I trust his judgment. I certainly hope if he chooses to veto the bill, Republicans will not choose to override him, and certainly I won’t be one of those doing that.
Not working for his constituents. Not making the country better. Not solving the housing affordability crisis. Randy Fine's job is to beat Democrats.
REP. RANDY FINE: Well, I don’t know. I mean, look, my issue was if Elizabeth Warren thinks a bill is great, then it probably isn’t. And that’s sort of how I look at it. The enthusiasm with which Democrats had for this bill got me spooked. And I didn’t come to Washington to work with Democrats. I came to Washington to beat them. So that was where I was. As for the president, he’ll do what he thinks is best, and I trust his judgment. I certainly hope if he chooses to veto the bill, Republicans will not choose to override him, and certainly I won’t be one of those doing that.
Not working for his constituents. Not making the country better. Not solving the housing affordability crisis. Randy Fine's job is to beat Democrats.
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Oh, he’s a piece of work.
Randy Fine - Wikipedia
If Harvard pushed him left, what was he like in high school?
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