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Congress passes the largest housing affordability bill in decades

Bradskii

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In practically every poll, 80% of Americans DO support the SAVE America Act. And, if there really is NO fraud in our elections, then why do Democratic Party politicians lie about the SAVE Act? Why do Democratic Party politicians stand in the way of making sure our elections are 100% secure?
I know that you have an internet connection because I'm reading your post. But do you not have something similar to Google? It's a search engine and what you can use if for is to search for the evidence that you might think supports your claims and (I won't go into the details of how) but you can link to it and cut 'n' paste quotes and figures and numbers and facts so we can see on what basis you are making such claims.

My guess is that if someone posts something with which you disagree and it has nothing within it to back up what it claims then you'll ignore it. You'll class it as biased opinion and nothing more. See what I'm saying..?
 
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Tuur

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I have yet to read the bill but from what I've seen from others who claim they have this bill is toothless and doesn't really do much to actually provide a solution to the housing affordability problem. It seems to mainly be a vehicle for deregulation, which is just part and parcel for this administration.
Back when I did this sort of thing as summer jobs, the biggest factor in home construction was interest rates. This was in the time of double-digit rates. Even then, housing affordability was an issue, and have heard plenty of lunch-time debates of whether it was cheaper to rebuild an old home or build a new one.

To get some idea of the issues, just drop by a building supply and take a look at the prices. Now factor in labor. To break a log-jam on home projects, I ended up buying a couple of saw horses I really needed when I could have built them. The price of pressure treated 2x4s and of deck screws would have made this project only slightly cheaper than buying a couple of collapsible metal ones, and that's before I look into account the labor required.

The main problem with prefab and preconstructed is securing them to a solid foundation. It can be done, if you have something like a crane to lower it onto foundations where bolts to secure them have already been deeply set, but tie-down straps don't cut it. Once, when I was decades younger and was where a preconstructed home (single wide trailer) had stood, I pulled an auger tie-down straight out of the soggy ground, and that's a comment on the lack of holding power, not my strength back then. That means that they usually aren't the safest place during storms.

Will note that post-Helene saw quite a few destroyed single and double-wide homes that were simply pushed up and replaced with the same, sometimes not long after we restored power. That said, will also note that they don't seem to hold up well over time.
 
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Tuur

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It would be better if it put (more) federal funding into building housing, but we don't have a lot of money to spend, so finding little levers here and there to grease the wheels is probably the best we could hope for. [That said, we should also be addressing high density housing. Not just SFR.]
No, because something close to that led to the housing bubble. Fannie Mae was enabling sup-par loan risks in the housing market, and that ended up with a whole lot of risky investment. When that bubble popped, it took some banks down with it. Note that the intent back then was to make it easier to get housing, not to make another avenue for investors, but that was the end result.

Lowering construction cost would do more than any government funding, but just how while building structurally sound homes is a head scratcher. Have seen articles from right before the 1970s Energy Crises where there were attempts to build homes by stacking cement bags and driving rebar through them, but they wouldn’t do well in earthquake prone areas and they would have a low R value. Have seen the same done with concrete block, but that has the same drawbacks. I know of a concrete block home that had been vacant for decades and really don’t know why unless it’s issues with heating and cooling costs.
 
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Tuur

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But, beyond that, if there really is fraud in our elections, why can't anyone provide any evidence for it? No one has, not even once.
A DA did when a former classmate went to trial for voter fraud. The DA got a conviction out of it, too.
 

essentialsaltes

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No, because something close to that led to the housing bubble. Fannie Mae was enabling sup-par loan
We're talking about home construction not home financing.
 
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NxNW

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In practically every poll, 80% of Americans DO support the SAVE America Act.
And you still haven't provided any evidence of that.
And, if there really is NO fraud in our elections, then why do Democratic Party politicians lie about the SAVE Act?
Why don't you provide evidence of fraud instead of making false claims?
Why do Democratic Party politicians stand in the way of making sure our elections are 100% secure?
Because a poll tax is not the way to do it.
 
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Tuur

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We're talking about home construction not home financing.
It’s the same difference. Thanks to easier government money, whole subdivisions were built on speculation. Our first indication locally that the bubble was about to pop was when units started going unsold. It was loose financing that encouraged building homes in the first place, followed by speculation. You can’t separate the two.
 
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Say it aint so

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In practically every poll, 80% of Americans DO support the SAVE America Act. And, if there really is NO fraud in our elections, then why do Democratic Party politicians lie about the SAVE Act? Why do Democratic Party politicians stand in the way of making sure our elections are 100% secure?
No. That 80% is about voter ID. The Save America Act is far more than just that.
 
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Vambram

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And you still haven't provided any evidence of that.

Why don't you provide evidence of fraud instead of making false claims?

Because a poll tax is not the way to do it.
Plenty of evidence is all over the place. Do some good research using AI search engines.
It's not a poll tax at all.
 
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durangodawood

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.....but tie-down straps don't cut it. Once, when I was decades younger and was where a preconstructed home (single wide trailer) had stood, I pulled an auger tie-down straight out of the soggy ground.....
I dont follow. A tie down strap just inserted into earth, not conrete? Was that ever a thing?
 
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durangodawood

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Trump is never going to get any Ds on board with his poor people voter restriction thing.

All he's going to achieve is to deny Americans whatever benefits this housing bill would bring.

(The only "emergency" is his impending rendezvous with justice for the outrageous corruption during his time in office.)
 
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Nithavela

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In retrospect, you probably shouldn't have given the guy who has carte blanche to govern when there is a national emergency the ability to declare everything a national emergency.
 
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MarcusGregor

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Plenty of evidence is all over the place. Do some good research using AI search engines.
It's not a poll tax at all.
Yep. Here's some:


Oh wait. The SAVE act wouldn't do anything about this. Nevermind.
 
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Tuur

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I dont follow. A tie down strap just inserted into earth, not conrete? Was that ever a thing?
Absolutely, and still is. Tie-down straps are attached to helical anchors literally screwed into the ground. At least, they are supposed to be. Some make them worse by inserting them in a post hole and pouring concrete around them. That just turns them into a concrete plug with only the weight of the concrete acting as a hold-down. Note that helical anchors are also used for power pole guy wires, but for wet soil, a “dead man” type of anchor where a length of pole is buried horizontally perpendicular to the strain is sometimes recommended. Being wood can rot except in certain conditions, not sure how sound that method is.

The straps themselves are metal and can be thrown over the structure, but I think modern ones have the built in the walls and over the rafters. I know that tie-downs were used on some post-Helene installed mobile homes.

This is in contrast with bolts mounted in foundation walls. These are “L” shaped and are set in the cement of the foundation walls or mortar poured into the concrete blocks of a foundation walls, or in the concrete slab, if the house is built on one. The bolts run up through the wood of the sills. The home is literally bolted onto the foundation.
 
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durangodawood

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Absolutely, and still is. Tie-down straps are attached to helical anchors literally screwed into the ground. At least, they are supposed to be. Some make them worse by inserting them in a post hole and pouring concrete around them. That just turns them into a concrete plug with only the weight of the concrete acting as a hold-down. Note that helical anchors are also used for power pole guy wires, but for wet soil, a “dead man” type of anchor where a length of pole is buried horizontally perpendicular to the strain is sometimes recommended. Being wood can rot except in certain conditions, not sure how sound that method is.

The straps themselves are metal and can be thrown over the structure, but I think modern ones have the built in the walls and over the rafters. I know that tie-downs were used on some post-Helene installed mobile homes.

This is in contrast with bolts mounted in foundation walls. These are “L” shaped and are set in the cement of the foundation walls or mortar poured into the concrete blocks of a foundation walls, or in the concrete slab, if the house is built on one. The bolts run up through the wood of the sills. The home is literally bolted onto the foundation.
Im familiar with standard foundation construction, as I design houses and produce loads of foundation plans and details. But thats for typical site built construction. I had no idea that "mobile homes" just used soil anchors. Thats wild. But I guess it makes sense if you have essentially zero foundation.

I have worked with factory built modules. At the high end its indistinguishable from site built if done well. Also nearly indistinguishable cost wise, depending on where youre building. Overall though I think factory built will gain ground.
 
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Tuur

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Im familiar with standard foundation construction, as I design houses and produce loads of foundation plans and details. But thats for typical site built construction. I had no idea that "mobile homes" just used soil anchors. Thats wild. But I guess it makes sense if you have essentially zero foundation.

I have worked with factory built modules. At the high end its indistinguishable from site built if done well. Also nearly indistinguishable cost wise, depending on where youre building. Overall though I think factory built will gain ground.
I'm old school: learned architectural drafting in High School in the days of T squares and 0.5 mm mechanical pencils, and later moved on to ink on Mylar (tm) at work with utility drawings. Now it's all CAD. Still have an architect's scale because the things are just so handy for floor plans, but haven't even seen magazines that were catalogs of house plans for decades.

Mobile homes are typically mounted on loose concrete block pillars without so much as mortar. Have helped underpin one with concrete blocks. When it looked like we'd have to go to a doublewide, looked into a conventional foundation with a crane to set them on it, and some kind of steel to attach the foundation bolts to the I-beam flange.

Have seen a crane used to set a modular home on conventional foundations back in the 1970s and assume it was on conventional bolts used in house construction.

Mobile homes are a "trip." Before 2000, there were three levels of construction, which I won't mention because I might have them backwards. But the lightest construction has no storm sheeting and the highest has regular storm sheeting and stronger brackets for rafter and ceiling joists and such and are for coastal areas. They also have to contend with weight due to being hauled down the highway. Sheetrock was usually a quarter of an inch thick; plumbing was flexible pipes; most had no access points to work on the plumbing at all. Eves were narrow because of highway lane widths, but in the 1990s saw one that had a room cranked into place that had wider eves. There was one brand that's probably not made anymore that one building inspector praised, but what I saw looking at them was garbage. For whatever reason, every one we looked at had a fabulous master bath, but no lives most of their lives in the bathroom (I hope).

Maybe worse was how the companies installed - and still do- central AC units, and heat strips for winter use. People buying the trailers assume they're heat pumps. They aren't. Electric resistance heat is the most expensive heat their is. When we were looking at mobile homes, learned that if we went with a heat pump, we'd have to buy it from a heating and cooling company and have them install it. And that's why some of the highest electrical usage we see is from mobile homes. Lack of room for insulation is part of it, but those heat strips in the winter really run up the power bills.

My old boss had an idea of a set selection of house plans and a factory to cut all the pieces before delivery to the site. Kind of like those old mail-order homes from Sears & Roebuck. He never went with his idea. Maybe someone is doing that now. Anyway, my old boss thought it might could cut down on labor costs.
 
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A2SG

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A DA did when a former classmate went to trial for voter fraud. The DA got a conviction out of it, too.
Okay, that's one guy. Sure, we can from time to time find a few scattered examples of individuals committing fraud, usually voting for Trump it seems, but no one has yet turned up the evidence for massive voter fraud sufficient to rig a national election. This despite some people saying they have it, but are keeping it hidden for some reason.

-- A2SG, Schrodinger's evidence....if the box holding it opens, it might disappear.....
 
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camille70

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NxNW

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Plenty of evidence is all over the place. Do some good research using AI search engines.
It's not a poll tax at all.
It's not my job to support your false claims.

Make your own argument, if you can.

I doubt you can.
 
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