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Lost tribes of Israel

Christ's Bride

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View attachment 380492

Huckabee Disagrees with Trump and Reminds America of Israel's Importance.

Donald Trump likes to speak as if world history began with him. Sometimes he’s ended wars, sometimes he’s saved nations, and sometimes he’s made alliances possible in the first place. His latest claim, that without the US and without him personally, Israel would not exist, fits perfectly into this pattern of political self-aggrandizement. It’s loud, catchy, and false enough to stick. Now, of all people, his own ambassador to Israel has offered a response that is unlikely to please everyone in Washington.

Speaking at the International Conference on Israeli Heritage in Judea and Samaria, Mike Huckabee said that without Israel and without its Jewish foundation, America would not exist. The phrasing is deliberately broad. It does not mean that the modern State of Israel existed in a technical sense before the US. Huckabee is speaking of the biblical, Jewish, and spiritual foundations from which many American self-images have emerged: covenant, freedom, law, Exodus, Jerusalem, and responsibility before G-d. In this language lies a reminder that Trump seems to have forgotten:

America is not just a giver. It is also an heir.

Of course, one might find Huckabee’s statement exaggerated. Nations are shaped by many forces, history, geography, power, war, ideas, and chance. But politically, he hits the nail on the head better than Trump. For Trump’s statement belittles Israel. Huckabee’s statement makes it clear that the relationship between America and Israel is not a one-way street. Israel is not an American aid project with its own flag. Israel is a sovereign state whose history predates any American administration and whose significance for Western thought did not begin with military aid.

Historically speaking, Trump’s claim is hardly tenable anyway. Although the US recognized Israel de facto very quickly in 1948, Washington maintained an arms embargo against all parties to the War of Independence. The young state of Israel thus did not fight as an American protectorate, but rather amid severe shortages and an existential threat. The strategic closeness that seems so natural today developed primarily later, especially after 1967 and even more so after the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

That is precisely why Trump’s tone comes across as so hurtful. The US is Israel’s most important ally. No one in Jerusalem seriously disputes that. American weapons, diplomatic backing, shared technology, and political support have time and again strengthened Israel’s security. But providing strength is not the same as granting existence. Israel owes its survival first and foremost to the people who built it, defended it, and carried it through wars.

Huckabee’s remark is therefore more than just a polite comment. It is a subtle correction within his own camp. While Trump publicly lectures Israel to act with more restraint in Lebanon, and even brings Syria into the picture as a potential counterweight to Hezbollah, his ambassador reminds us that the relationship with Israel is not based on Trump’s personal track record. It is deeper, older, and more serious than a press conference on the sidelines of a summit.

This is important for Jerusalem. Israel needs the U.S., but it must not allow itself to be reduced to the whims of a single president. If Trump declares today that Israel would not exist without him, he may conclude tomorrow that Israel must now do whatever he demands. This is precisely where language becomes politically dangerous. Gratitude quickly turns into dependence. An alliance quickly turns into a claim of ownership.

Huckabee did not attack this claim to ownership head-on. He turned it on its head. And sometimes that is exactly what is needed. America should remember that Israel is not merely a recipient of American aid, but part of the intellectual and historical landscape from which Western freedom has repeatedly drawn its most powerful imagery. Those who belittle Israel fail to recognize not only the history of the Jewish state, but also something about America itself.
do you know which nations are the House of Israel? Ephraim and Manasseh ?
 
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Benaiah468

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do you know which nations are the House of Israel? Ephraim and Manasseh ?

That’s a foundational piece of the puzzle!

Ephraim and Manasseh are the primary pillars of the House of Israel, though the House itself comprises the entire ten-tribe Northern Kingdom. They received the blessings of multitude of descendants as well as immense material blessings, which is directly tied to the birthright. Judah (the House of Judah/Southern Kingdom), on the other hand, received the royal leadership role, a very special position in the family alongside its own distinct blessings.

I’ve actually broken down this exact relationship and the specific roles of Ephraim and Manasseh in several of my comprehensive posts over the past two years. To save you some time, here is a link to one of my detailed threads where we map this out: #117. I think you'll find the breakdown there very helpful!
 
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I haven't read the entire thread (it's... long), but I'm wondering how you fit archaeological evidence in with your view of the ten "lost" tribes? We know from archaeology that when the Assyrians attacked the northern kingdom of Israel, the city of Jerusalem grew at least 15 times larger than it was originally, with many houses in the suddenly populated area built in haste and crowded together like a refugee camp. This would almost certainly be refugees from the northern ten tribes, and we know from both Biblical and Assyrian records that Jerusalem survived the later Assyrian attack by Sennacherib. That would make the modern-day Jews descendants of the ancient Israelites as a whole, and doesn't really fit with the idea that people groups other than the Jews are the tribes of Israel.


(Note that Joel Kramer makes assertions about what God said He was going to do and what would actually happen, and only then presents evidence from archaeology that the assertions are true, so don't give up when he starts making bold assertions.)
 
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The house of Judah remained Jewish regardless of who became refugees from the north. That is why the Jews called them Gentiles. There was no assimilation as later the gentile church demanded of the Jewish Christians
I don't remember where in the Bible the Jews call the Israelites of the northern kingdom Gentiles. Are you referencing an extrabiblical source, or is there a Bible passage I'm not thinking of?
 
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Benaiah468

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I haven't read the entire thread (it's... long), but I'm wondering how you fit archaeological evidence in with your view of the ten "lost" tribes? We know from archaeology that when the Assyrians attacked the northern kingdom of Israel, the city of Jerusalem grew at least 15 times larger than it was originally, with many houses in the suddenly populated area built in haste and crowded together like a refugee camp. This would almost certainly be refugees from the northern ten tribes, and we know from both Biblical and Assyrian records that Jerusalem survived the later Assyrian attack by Sennacherib. That would make the modern-day Jews descendants of the ancient Israelites as a whole, and doesn't really fit with the idea that people groups other than the Jews are the tribes of Israel.


(Note that Joel Kramer makes assertions about what God said He was going to do and what would actually happen, and only then presents evidence from archaeology that the assertions are true, so don't give up when he starts making bold assertions.)


Thanks for bringing Joel Kramer’s archaeological work into this discussion. He is correct regarding the physical evidence in Jerusalem. How can we harmoniously reconcile his archaeological findings with the broader prophetic destiny of Ephraim and the Northern Kingdom?

Only a small portion reached Jerusalem and were absorbed into the southern kingdom. They became a vital part of Judah’s history. As promised in Micah, G-d gathered a remnant of all of Jacob like sheep in a fold to survive the Assyrian crisis

I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men. Micah 2:12

However, the main body of Ephraim were scattered, lost their identity, migrated Northwest over the centuries, and historically formed the foundational bedrock for the development of the Western Christian nations.

The vast majority of the ten northern tribes never reached Jerusalem. As the second book of Kings states, the King of Assyria deported Israel and settled them in Halah, in Habor by the the river of Gozan, and the cities of the Medes

In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes. 2 Kgs 17:6


It is this main body, the millions who did not become part of the Jewish remnant, about whom Hosea prophesied when he declared they would become not my people (Loammi) before being multiplied like the sand of the sea

Then said G-d, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living G-d. Hos 1:9-10


If all of Israel had simply been integrated into Judah at that time, the specific, distinct blessings given to the two separate houses could never be fulfilled. Jacob’s prophecy explicitly states that Ephraim’s descendants would become a multitude of nations (melo ha-goyim) or the fullness of the Gentiles (Rom 11:25b)

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. Gen 48:19

Furthermore, if the ten tribes had already been fully integrated into Judah during Hezekiah’s reign, Ezekiel’s famous prophecy of the Two Sticks, written much later during the Babylonian exile, would lose its entire validity.

As we read in Ezekiel, G-d explicitly commands to take one stick for Judah and the children of Israel associated with him.This is exactly the remnant of the Northern Kingdom (the refugees) that Joel Kramer speaks of and that historically merged into the Jewish people. Another stick is taken for Joseph/Ephraim and all the house of Israel associated with him. G-d promises to join these two distinct, separate sticks in the future

Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Ezek 37:19b

If they were already one single stick in Jerusalem, this prophetic command would make no sense.

Furthermore, this dual-house lens unlocks the true prophetic depth of the NT parables #202ff. Many of Jesus' parables share this exact, singular focus: the restoration of the two houses, each told from a different perspective.

Take, for instance, the story of the two sisters, Martha and Mary. Mary, sitting peacefully at the feet of Messiah, beautifully the house of Judah preserving the covenant, while Martha, distracted and busily working with many things, reflects the historical state of Ephraim scattered and laboring among the nations.

Even more profoundly, the Parable of the Prodigal Son acts as a direct prophetic blueprint: the older brother who stayed home represents Judah, while the younger brother who wasted his inheritance in a distant land and lost his identity represents Ephraim. #43 The older brother’s reaction to the party perfectly mirrors how Judah historically struggles with the concept of Ephraim returning home.

None of these overarching prophetic parables make structural sense if the assimilated northern tribes had simply dissolved into the single tribe of Judah centuries prior. The drama of the NT is built upon the reconciliation of these two distinct brothers.

To harmonize the archaeology with the prophecy, we can look at it this way: Joel Kramer’s approach highlights the micro-fulfillment, the physical preservation of a twelve-tribe genetic remnant within the Jewish nation. Conversely, the Northwest migration of the Lost Tribes represents the macro-fulfillment. This is the grand divine blueprint in which Ephraim's scattered body becomes a blessing to the world, ultimately destined for reunion with Judah under the Messianic King. They are simply two sides of the same divine coin.

This is also why we see a prophetic reflection in Zechariah, which speaks of the end times

In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that G-d is with you. Zec 8:23b

The number ten here is not random; it symbolically points to the ten lost tribes returning from among the nations, as the focus of the Gospel dynamically cycles back to its Jewish roots.

Today, many Messianic Jews actively pray for the return of the lost tribes. While some groups look for physical descendants in regions like India (Bnei Menashe) or Ethiopia (Beta Israel), other Messianic teachers believe that a vast multitude of the descendants of the lost tribes live today, unrecognized, anchored within the Western nations. Ultimately, this is an area where everyone must study the evidence and decide what to believe, as it is a perspective on history rather than a strict theological dogma.
 
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I don't remember where in the Bible the Jews call the Israelites of the northern kingdom Gentiles. Are you referencing an extrabiblical source, or is there a Bible passage I'm not thinking of?


Strictly speaking, during the OT era, the House of Judah did not refer to the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom as Gentiles (goyim). Scripturally and historically, they were always recognized as brother tribes, even when they fell into severe idolatry.

After the Assyrian deportation, the remaining populace in the north intermarried with foreign peoples brought in by the Assyrians

And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. 2 Kgs 17:24

By the time of the Second Temple and the NT era, the Jewish leadership viewed these regional descendants (the Samaritans) as deeply compromised, effectively treating them like outsiders or half-Gentiles with whom they would not associate

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. John 4:9

The idea of the Northern Kingdom becoming Gentiles truly takes root in biblical prophecy, rather than the everyday perspective of the people of Judah. In Hosea’s vision, G-d explicitly states that the Northern Kingdom (Ephraim) would lose its distinct status, become not my people (Loammi) , and be swallowed up among the nations

Then said G-d, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Hos 1:9
Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. Hos 8:8


In Romans, Paul quotes these exact verses from Hosea to explain how the Gentiles are now being called into the covenant. He structurally links the scattered, identity-lost descendants of the Northern Kingdom with the Gentile world at large

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living G-d. Rom 9:24-26

Furthermore, the Jewish people held onto the awareness that a vast part of their nation lived in the Diaspora and had been heavily influenced and assimilated by the Hellenistic world. In this context, the NT speaks of the Hellenists (Greeks/Non-Jews) or the Dispersion. An example of this is found in John, where the Jewish listeners ask:

will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? John 7:35b

So, while you are absolutely correct that there is no explicit Bible verse where an OT Jew calls a northern Israelite a Gentile, the prophetic reality remains, that Ephraim was legally and spiritually categorized as Gentiles through total assimilation. This is the very essence of why they became the Lost Tribes. They lost their identity so completely that they merged into the nations, setting the stage for the macro-fulfillment we see unfolding today.
 
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Strictly speaking, during the OT era, the House of Judah did not refer to the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom as Gentiles (goyim). Scripturally and historically, they were always recognized as brother tribes, even when they fell into severe idolatry.

After the Assyrian deportation, the remaining populace in the north intermarried with foreign peoples brought in by the Assyrians

And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. 2 Kgs 17:24

By the time of the Second Temple and the NT era, the Jewish leadership viewed these regional descendants (the Samaritans) as deeply compromised, effectively treating them like outsiders or half-Gentiles with whom they would not associate

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. John 4:9

The idea of the Northern Kingdom becoming Gentiles truly takes root in biblical prophecy, rather than the everyday perspective of the people of Judah. In Hosea’s vision, G-d explicitly states that the Northern Kingdom (Ephraim) would lose its distinct status, become not my people (Loammi) , and be swallowed up among the nations

Then said G-d, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Hos 1:9
Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. Hos 8:8


In Romans, Paul quotes these exact verses from Hosea to explain how the Gentiles are now being called into the covenant. He structurally links the scattered, identity-lost descendants of the Northern Kingdom with the Gentile world at large

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living G-d. Rom 9:24-26

Furthermore, the Jewish people held onto the awareness that a vast part of their nation lived in the Diaspora and had been heavily influenced and assimilated by the Hellenistic world. In this context, the NT speaks of the Hellenists (Greeks/Non-Jews) or the Dispersion. An example of this is found in John, where the Jewish listeners ask:

will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? John 7:35b

So, while you are absolutely correct that there is no explicit Bible verse where an OT Jew calls a northern Israelite a Gentile, the prophetic reality remains, that Ephraim was legally and spiritually categorized as Gentiles through total assimilation. This is the very essence of why they became the Lost Tribes. They lost their identity so completely that they merged into the nations, setting the stage for the macro-fulfillment we see unfolding today.
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name:


36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.


37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

The Nations of the House of Israel do not know who they are -- but the Father and His Son Do know.
the 10 tribes have lost their identity -- but not God.
 
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I found the scripture I was looking for
Ezekiel 39
25Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; 26After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made [them] afraid. 27When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28Then shall they know that I [am] the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

this is referring to after Christ has returned and the 2nd Exodus has taken place -- and ALL of those held in captivity are gathered in to the Promised Land -- Christ will leave none behind.

there is another place where Christ says He known each by name. still looking
 
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You have laid out a valuable foundation. Using your final sentence as a bridge to a prophecy hidden right at the beginning of the second book of the Torah, I would like to provide you with the exact scriptures you were looking for (Isaiah 40:26 and Psalm 147:4) and show you how they directly connect to your quotes from Jeremiah and Ezekiel regarding the Lost Tribes!

While the book certainly chronicles the physical departure from Egypt, G-d chose to title this entire epoch 'The Book of Names'. It begins with

Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob... Ex 1:1-4

What follows is a repetition of the geneology we already know from Genesis. Why repeat it? Why emphasize the names right before they sink into the darkest captivity?

He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Ps 147:4

Think back to the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis. G-d tells Abraham to look up and count the stars, revealing that his descendants would be countless. This creates a paradox. To human eyes, the stars (and the scattered multitude of Israel) are completely uncountable and lost in the vastness of space. But to YHVH, they are perfectly numbered.

As Isaiah states

Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. Isa 40:26


Look at how this mirrors your quote from Ezekiel

Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Ezek 39:28

Not one is missing!

Historically, G-d emphasizes this 'Book of Names' precisely when Israel is about to enter 400 years of foreign slavery, corporate identity loss, and affliction. It was G-d's way of saying: 'To the world, you are about to become a nameless, scattered mass of slaves. The nations will forget who you are, and you will even forget who you are. But I have numbered you. I know each of your names, just like the stars.'

As you rightly noted regarding the House of Israel losing their identity. The nations do not know who Ephraim is today. The scattered tribes look at themselves and see Gentiles. But YHVH looks from above and sees the stars they named.

When Jesus says in John

he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. John 10:3b

then He is echoing this exact ancient blueprint of the Book of Names. Just as G-d told Moses

I have surely seen the affliction of my people... I know their sorrows; Ex 3:7

He knows the exact locations of the scattered seed of Israel today. They are like the stars, uncountable to man, hidden by the daylight of historical assimilation, but fully known, named, and numbered by the Creator. And when the Second Exodus occurs, just as you said, Christ will leave none behind!
 
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You have laid out a valuable foundation. Using your final sentence as a bridge to a prophecy hidden right at the beginning of the second book of the Torah, I would like to provide you with the exact scriptures you were looking for (Isaiah 40:26 and Psalm 147:4) and show you how they directly connect to your quotes from Jeremiah and Ezekiel regarding the Lost Tribes!

While the book certainly chronicles the physical departure from Egypt, G-d chose to title this entire epoch 'The Book of Names'. It begins with

Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob... Ex 1:1-4

What follows is a repetition of the geneology we already know from Genesis. Why repeat it? Why emphasize the names right before they sink into the darkest captivity?

He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Ps 147:4

Think back to the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis. G-d tells Abraham to look up and count the stars, revealing that his descendants would be countless. This creates a paradox. To human eyes, the stars (and the scattered multitude of Israel) are completely uncountable and lost in the vastness of space. But to YHVH, they are perfectly numbered.

As Isaiah states

Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. Isa 40:26

Look at how this mirrors your quote from Ezekiel

Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Ezek 39:28

Not one is missing!

Historically, G-d emphasizes this 'Book of Names' precisely when Israel is about to enter 400 years of foreign slavery, corporate identity loss, and affliction. It was G-d's way of saying: 'To the world, you are about to become a nameless, scattered mass of slaves. The nations will forget who you are, and you will even forget who you are. But I have numbered you. I know each of your names, just like the stars.'

As you rightly noted regarding the House of Israel losing their identity. The nations do not know who Ephraim is today. The scattered tribes look at themselves and see Gentiles. But YHVH looks from above and sees the stars they named.

When Jesus says in John

he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. John 10:3b

then He is echoing this exact ancient blueprint of the Book of Names. Just as G-d told Moses

I have surely seen the affliction of my people... I know their sorrows; Ex 3:7

He knows the exact locations of the scattered seed of Israel today. They are like the stars, uncountable to man, hidden by the daylight of historical assimilation, but fully known, named, and numbered by the Creator. And when the Second Exodus occurs, just as you said, Christ will leave none behind!
Thanks John 10; 3 is one and there is another in Isaiah or Ezekiel
 
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