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Jesus = Michael?
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@SabbathBlessings
“But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!””
Jude 1:9 NASB2020
Why would Jesus say the lord rebukes you when He IS the Lord. That really kills your theory.
“But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!””
Jude 1:9 NASB2020
Jude 1:9 (NASB2020) - But Michael the archangel, when he | YouVersion
But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
bible.com
Why would Jesus say the lord rebukes you when He IS the Lord. That really kills your theory.
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Not at all...
Zechariah 3:2 The LORD said to Satan, 'The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!'"
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Different context and different verse. Jude 1:9 is not quoting Zach. 3:2. This does not help you.
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That’s not what you said….you said
Meaning why would God use Himself in third person.
Yet we find the LORD doing exactly this, saying the EXACT thing, to the EXACT devil.
Zechariah 3:2 The LORD said to Satan, 'The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!'"
You changed the goal post, but it’s what I figured. Like I said, we are too far apart on even basic things to reason, so I am going to move on. Take care.
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Again, different context, different verse. Jude 1:9 is not quoting Zach. 3:2. You can’t just quote verses out of a hat.
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That is your interpretation. It is not the only possible interpretation.
1 Thess 4:16 implies plural archangels.
Scripture speaks of Zibeon the Hivite, Elon the Hittite and many others in the same manner.
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David Lamb
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The fact that Jude calls Michael "the archangel" rather than "an archangel" doesn't mean that there is only one archangel. How many Pharisees were there? Far more than one. Yet we often read of individual Pharisees being referred to as "the Pharisee", for example:
(Luk 11:38) When the Pharisee saw it, he marveled that He had not first washed before dinner.
JulieB67
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Because we are given the information that Michael is an angel. A high one, yes, but still an angel. So once we have that information there should be no debate. And I've already stated the difference many times between being called Prince and being called "one of the chief princes"
And you keep applying added reverence with posting uppercase Archangel and Chief Prince when in the Bible it's archangel and "one of the chief princes" Neither of those descriptions would apply to Christ.
Logic alone tells us there is more than one. When we find out that Michael is an angel than we know that from Daniel that he is "one of the chief princes" And you can keep posting Archangel but it's not going to change that fact that it's archangel. You have given him the title. The Bible certainly doesn't.
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I can name other Pharisees, in the instance it speaking of a specific one.
Name another Archangel other than Michael.
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He is never referred to as an angel, only the Archangel, which is a Title. You also keep thinking that punctuations are added in the original Text when its not, its added by translators who refers God as him, lower case, often, which doesn’t take away God’s Divinity.
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David Lamb
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The fact that I cannot name them doesn't mean that they do not exist. It is at least implied that there are other archangels besides Michael, in this verse:
(1Th 4:16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
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It doesn’t mean they do either, Scripture tells us to go by what is stated in Scripture Psa 119:105, not what isn’t or could be
Yes, the voice of the Archangel raises the dead - we are told plainly only Christ voice raises the dead. I think this verse has been discussed many times on this thread, I am not sure if you have read the responses in this thread about this same verse.
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David Lamb
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Where does the verse say that the voice of an archangel raises the dead? Here is that verse again:
(1Th 4:16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
It says that the descending of Christ will be accompanied by a shout, the voice of an archangel. Then it says that the dead in Christ will rise first, not that the voice of an archangel will raise them.
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Yes, this has been addressed.
The verse does not say an archangel gives a separate command. The subject is "the Lord Himself." Paul says Christ descends "with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God." These are descriptions of the majesty and authority accompanying Christ's return.
We know Christ's voice raises the dead. Jesus said, "the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth" (John 5:28-29). At the Second Coming, the dead are raised (1 Thess. 4:16), so whose voice is calling them? Jesus' voice.
If the dead are raised by Christ's voice, and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 connects the resurrection with "the voice of the archangel" its only logical its one of the same. Why we see similar verses like Zec 3:2 Jude1:9
Why would God the Creator need to use a voice of an angel to raise the dead? We are told its His voice that does. We believe this is just another Title Jesus goes by as He goes by many, not that He is an angel or created being- I know what many are trying to make it seem like its what we believe, when we stated repeatedly its not . Its okay we if we do not agree. I think this thread has run its course, it seems to be the same arguments repeated. I will probably move on, but wish everyone well.
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Where’s the verse. I appreciate your opinion, but I have yet to see this in Scripture. Is the Angel of the Lord an angel too in your view?
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So no Scripture, just your own reasoning. And I guess from this reasoning the Angel of the Lord in your view is a created angel.
Thanks for sharing.
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JulieB67
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We have the Greek meaning. So we don't need a scripture to tell us that archangel is indeed an angel. Do you have scripture that it's Michael's voice that raises the dead? No. That is your own reasoning.
Just as you have no scripture that states Michael is Jesus Christ or vice versa.
I at least have scripture that points to Michael being "one of the chief princes" Meaning there is more than one. And I have the Greek meaning that archangel explicitly states that is an angel.
I guess it's another thing we'll find out....
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