what does this verse mean?

d taylor said:

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The Bible states the born again child of God should do good works. But The Bible never states that the born again child of God will do good works. The parable of the soil also makes this clear, the second soil had no good works

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

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<sigh>
Only the good soil represents born again children of God.

The verse you have quoted even states that those on stony places HAVE NO ROOT IN THEMSELVES (i.e. they have not been born again).

By their fruit you will know them.

whatdoesthisversemean said:

bishop mean's shepherd, father, successor of the apostles


rom 10:14-15
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

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Bishop does not mean "father" or "successor of the apostles"! Stop making things up.

Bishop (as used in a church setting) means "overseer" (one who watches over the flock - i.e. an elder or pastor).

David1701 said:

<sigh>
Only the good soil represents born again children of God.

The verse you have quoted even states that those on stony places HAVE NO ROOT IN THEMSELVES (i.e. they have not been born again).

By their fruit you will know them.

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So according to you there is a type of faith in Christ which does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life (salvation).

The Parable of the Four Soils: Do the Middle Two Soils Represent Believers or Unbelievers? - Matthew 13:20-22 - Grace Evangelical Society

whatdoesthisversemean said:

scripture please?

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1) The Holy Spirit leads us into understanding of the Scriptures.

John 14:25,26 (A.V.)
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The above was Jesus speaking to his disciples. If one is a disciple of Jesus, then it applies to him.

2) If you do a word study, you will discover that "ekklesia" (the Greek word often translated as "church") is always in the singular in a town or village; but always in the plural, in a region or country. In other words, a "church" is the congregation of believers, in a specific town or village; but, in a wider area, there are churches (plural, never singular).

The word "ekklesia" is also, occasionally, used to refer to all believers everywhere (this is determined by the context).

d taylor said:

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So according to you there is a type of faith in Christ which does not give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life (salvation).

The Parable of the Four Soils: Do the Middle Two Soils Represent Believers or Unbelievers? - Matthew 13:20-22 - Grace Evangelical Society

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Not at all! Having no root in themselves means that they do not have real faith. I would have thought that was obvious.

David1701 said:

Not at all! Having no root in themselves means that they do not have real faith. I would have thought that was obvious.

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Then you should not state the free grace theology of faith alone in Christ alone as you did in your post here what does this verse mean?

Because your theology is a faith plus fruit bearing and not a faith alone in Christ alone. As you have to add to faith qualifying words like true faith or real faith. When trying to explain away examples in The Bible where it is stated a person has believed in Jesus, but does not bear fruit or falls away.

whatdoesthisversemean said:

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

what does this verse mean by "the refreshing"?

how does the presence of the Lord cause refreshing?

what does this verse mean by the "times of refreshing"?

thks

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It means if Israel (especially believing Jews) would repent and unbelieving Jews come to believe, Jesus is the promised Messiah.
That Jesus would return and setup the 1000 year kingdom rule on earth (the Messianic Kingdom) that Israel was hoping for, but did not receive because they rejected Jesus as The promised Messiah. Look at the very next verse and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,


The Lame Man (Acts 3) - Grace Evangelical Society
3:19-21. These verses describe the “regeneration” of creation (cf. Matt 19:28; Jas 1:18; and Rom 8:12-32). The key expression is the phrase “times of restitution of all things.” Thus there are parallels between the regeneration of creation and the regeneration of the soul.
First, comes the blotting out of sins. In the case of earth’s “regeneration,” Israel’s sins must first be blotted out.
Second, there will be times of refreshing (which can come only from the presence [prosōpou] of the Lord, since earth cannot refresh the redeemed soul, cf. 2 Cor 4:6, “the face of Jesus Christ.”).
Third, will be revealed the personal presence of the Lord Jesus Christ (note v 20), i.e., Christ in us.
Fourth, there shall be the reconstitution (apokatastaseōs) of all things in his experience (cf. 2 Cor 5:17).
According to verse 21 if such “times” arrive, Christ must be here, for it is only in or for such times that heaven will see Him return. “Whom the heaven must receive until…” (It will not relinquish Him till then!) These times then are the times of His personal presence. So also in the individual’s life it is the living, vital presence of Christ that produces a new experience, i.e., a reconstitution (of life). God is not willing to send Him to earth, or to the human heart, until such times are inaugurated.

d taylor said:

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Then you should not state the free grace theology of faith alone in Christ alone as you did in your post here what does this verse mean?

Because your theology is a faith plus fruit bearing and not a faith alone in Christ alone. As you have to add to faith qualifying words like true faith or real faith. When trying to explain away examples in The Bible where it is stated a person has believed in Jesus, but does not bear fruit or falls away.

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You don't understand what "through faith alone, in Christ alone" means. Salvation is by grace (unmerited favour) through faith in Jesus Christ (not by works); and, that salvation results in fruit bearing. Salvation is not because of the fruit bearing (that would be to put the cart before the horse); rather, the person, who is now a new creation in Christ, bears good fruit, by the Holy Spirit, because he has a new nature, having been born again.

The Bible states that everyone who has been born again does not practise sin; in fact, he CANNOT practise sin (N.B. I did not say that he cannot sin at all, but that he cannot practise sin - i.e. he cannot sin habitually) because he has been born again.

Eph. 2:8-10 (A.V.)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 John 3:9 (E.S.V.) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Many people hear the gospel and accept the facts and/or have a positive emotional reaction; but, neither of these (on its own) constitutes the faith through which God saves his people. Belief/faith, like many other words, has a semantic range (a range of meanings, depending upon the context).

As it says in the book of James, "Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works.". In other words, the faith through which God saves his people results in good works; anything else is either pretence, or mere mental assent to facts, or an emotional reaction, or some combination of these.

David1701 said:

You don't understand what "through faith alone, in Christ alone" means. Salvation is by grace (unmerited favour) through faith in Jesus Christ (not by works); and, that salvation results in fruit bearing. Salvation is not because of the fruit bearing (that would be to put the cart before the horse); rather, the person, who is now a new creation in Christ, bears good fruit, by the Holy Spirit, because he has a new nature, having been born again.

The Bible states that everyone who has been born again does not practise sin; in fact, he CANNOT practise sin (N.B. I did not say that he cannot sin at all, but that he cannot practise sin - i.e. he cannot sin habitually) because he has been born again.

Eph. 2:8-10 (A.V.)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 John 3:9 (E.S.V.) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Many people hear the gospel and accept the facts and/or have a positive emotional reaction; but, neither of these (on its own) constitutes the faith through which God saves his people. Belief/faith, like many other words, has a semantic range (a range of meanings, depending upon the context).

As it says in the book of James, "Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works.". In other words, the faith through which God saves his people results in good works; anything else is either pretence, or mere mental assent to facts, or an emotional reaction, or some combination of these.

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It is really easy to understand the faith alone theology and just as easy to see people who do not believe in faith alone. They simply add anything to" belief in Jesus for Eternal Life", like bearing of fruit, repentance, obedience, being baptized, confessing Christ, making Jesus Lord of ones life, etc......

They can be seen when they do not believe the 2nd and 3rd soils are permanent born again child of God. All faith alone people believe the 2nd and 3rd soil are born again believers.

d taylor said:

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It is really easy to understand the faith alone theology and just as easy to see people who do not believe in faith alone. They simply add anything to" belief in Jesus for Eternal Life", like bearing of fruit, repentance, obedience, being baptized, confessing Christ, making Jesus Lord of ones life, etc......

They can be seen when they do not believe the 2nd and 3rd soils are permanent born again child of God. All faith alone people believe the 2nd and 3rd soil are born again believers.

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This is, of course, complete and utter rubbish.

The Solas came from the Reformation (Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone; and Scripture alone is the inerrant and sufficient rule of faith and practice), and the Reformers believed that genuine faith in Jesus Christ always results in good works (i.e. the fruit of the Holy Spirit).

As far as the soils are concerned...

Matt. 13:18-23 (E.S.V.)
18 “Hear then the parable of the sower:
19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

1) The first soil are people who don't even understand the word of God - obviously not born again.

2) The second soil (rocky ground) has a positive emotional reaction to God's word, but no hint of faith or repentance. They have no root in themselves (i.e. they are still unregenerate sinners) and this is revealed by tribulation or persecution, when the previous emotional reaction to God's word does not stand the test.

3) The third soil is sown among thorns (again, there is no hint of repentance or faith) and cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches keep the word from producing fruit (by their fruit you will know them...).

4) The only good soil are the people who understand the word and bear fruit (by their fruit you will know them...).

There is one kind of people who reject the gospel outright, there are two kinds of fake Christians, and the only kind of genuine Christians - the regenerate ones, who understand the word, have root in themselves and bear fruit.

I've often found that people who claim that one or more of the first three, bad soils are genuine believers, are themselves in one of the first three categories of soil.

People mistake belief in Jesus to mean who He was, not what He taught. He told us to do both. Those who only believe in who her is follow the lead of the Adversary who also knew who He was but refuses to follow what He taught.

False teachers emphasize good works.

Let me repeat that.

False teachers emphasize good works.

Continued here Ministers of Satan - 2 Cor 11:14-15 - Grace Evangelical Society

d taylor said:

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False teachers emphasize good works.

Let me repeat that.

False teachers emphasize good works.

Continued here Ministers of Satan - 2 Cor 11:14-15 - Grace Evangelical Society

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Some false teachers teach salvation by works. They deny that salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone.

Other false teachers teach a "salvation" that does not necessarily result in good works (that false teaching is called "Easy Believism"). In effect, these false teachers deny the radical change of nature, and the work of God to will and do of his good pleasure, in someone who has been born again (along with numerous Scriptures showing that real Christians bear good fruit).

The above two false teachings (legalism and licence to sin) are very serious heresies and both to be avoided like the plague that they are.