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Imputed Righteousness. The True & The False.

under grace1

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Geez! I don't know if you're agreeing with me or just looking for a reason to argue. So I'll repeat, Jesus said it's all about what goes on on the inside.

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." Matt 15

The answer is to get a new heart, from God.
The point is, to be justified by obeying the TC requires obedience to the law no one but you and God need know you break, what goes on, on the inside of man. That is the reason given by Paul as to why he had to die to justification of obeying the law.
Has your new heart enabled you to fully obey that law, the law of thou shalt NOT?
For according to Paul, if you want to be justified by law you must fully, not partly obey it
 
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under grace1

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For some discussion is a sport it seems.
Well as only one commandment truly matters on these websites, ''Thou shalt not admit to error'' one shouldn't always take discussions too seriously
 
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fhansen

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Rom2:13 has been explained to you. I can give you twenty verses of Paul's if needed that all say the same thing, the believer has no righteousness of obeying the law.
And the whole gospel concept has been explained to you: by the law no one will be justifed, but the just will nonetheless be marked by obedience of the law even if they've never heard it let alone are under it. Justification, simply, is not only forgivness of sin but the taking away of sin and replacing it with justice/righteousness from on high, "the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith", Phil 3:9. You've already ignored many, many passages that make that fact clear.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! Gal2:21
Yes, Yes, YES!! Righteousness comes from God alone. That doesn't mean we don't need to have it. And that we can't still compromise it by opting for injustice, sin.
The point is, to be justified by obeying the TC requires obedience to the law
Yes, and...so????? No one is justified by obeying the TC. Rather, one can obey the TC authentically by being justified.
ou believe you must obey the TC to be righteous/inherit eternal life. There is no watered down version of those commands, only the true version
You must not make a god out of anything and put it before your Father in Heaven
You must not erect any graven image in your mind
You must never tell even a little fib about another
You must not desire anything of your neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household
You must not lust/'have sexual desire for anyone, unless it for your spouse
You must obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break.
Thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey those commands or stand guilty before them
Paul stated concerning the TC, they are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation
He stated believers must die to the law in order to bear fruit for God, they are released from it and serve in the new way of the spirit, not the old way of the written code/law
He gave an example of which law he was talking about, the example given was one of the TC.
Whether you realize it or not, you're saying that it's now totally ok for a believer to engage and persist in adultery, murder, theft, lying, failing to love God and neighbor in general-you might as well be supporting what Isaiah condemns in Is 5:20. Because with your view there's no alternative or even difference between perfect obedience or none at all-and obedience/righteousness plays no role whatsoever anyway. But it's not what we do before justification-that won't impress God in the least. It's what we do after- with the gift received, the "gift of righteousness", as it's put in Romans and elsewhere, the gift of Himself, properly understood.

You're conflating and confusing two separate concepts: works of the law vs genuine obedience/righteousness -and deciding that both are unnecessary.
Jesus stated the Pharisees cleaned the outside of the cup but on the inside were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean

Why do you think the example Paul gave as to why he had to die to the law was coveting? Because it concerns what goes on, on the inside of man, his thoughts/desires, no outward action is needed to transgress the commandment.
Paul died to doing "works of the law": the mere external appearance of holiness that he and other Pharisees excelled at, so that he may now become clean on the inside by the power of God, having the real thing.

"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." Ex 36:25-27

Saul saw himself as faultless according to the whole law, while Paul had learned better, much better, that he wasn't even close, but only had the outward appearance of such holiness. He knew that the mere removal of a little piece of flesh from the body or the mere observance of the moral law could never make one holy. He knew that his righteousness must-and now can-surpass the righteousness of the Pharisees and teachers of the law (Matt 5:20). And this is easily done, actually, to the extent that we begin to love as God would have us love, and as only He can empower us to do, no longer slaves to sin but slaves to righteousness that leads to holiness resulting in eternal life, Rom 6:22. That's "the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith", Phil 3:9
 
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fhansen

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All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous Rom2:12&13

Verse 13 pertains to those under the law. If you are under the law you will be judged righteous by your obedience to it, but he states believers are not under the law(Rom6:14)
Verse 12 is quite clear: people, whether under the law or not under the law will perish due to sin!! Then 13 sums it up: all must obey. No one will be declared righteous unless they are righteous, just as John made clear that he who does right is righteous, and a child of God, while he who sins is unrighteous, and of the devil. Taking the whole counsel of Scripture into view, grave sin persisted in will still kill you but Christ gives us the way out: not by being under the law that kills but by the power of the Holy Spirit now given as we're justifed, that comes by faith and gives life. That's what Paul is excited about at the end of Rom 7 and into Rom 8, telling us that the Spirit gives life by taking away and overcoming sin-"deeds of the flesh"!! This is a new righteousness, apart from the law {Rom 3:21), that meets the righteous requirements of the law (Rom 8:4), not a merely legalistic righteousness per the old covenant, nor a merely declared righteousness, but the real thing! A righteousness sufficient to please God that you're not just remaining as you were, in your flesh and in your sins, but that you're where you can and should be at any one point in time by the power of His grace, now on board and making progress with Him on the Way, His way, on the path to His plan for you from the beginning. That's what faith is all about, it's purpose.
 
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Carl Emerson

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"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." Ex 36:25-27
Jeremiah goes even further on this topic - and emphatically predicts that the indwelling Fear of the Lord seals our salvation making it impossible to fall away.

Jer 32

40 I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them; and I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.
 
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Jan001

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Exactly my point - in the presence of The Holy he perceived his righteousness as filthy rags.

Why are you comparing God's righteousness to human righteousness? There is no comparison. God is the creator; humankind is the created. Isaiah 64:8

Isaiah was a righteous man who lived among the sinful, "filthy-ragged" Israelites, and his garment was like a "white wedding garment," fit to wear to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Revelation 3:4

When Jesus was on earth, Isaiah's spirit was in Hades with Abraham's spirit and all the other righteous, waiting for Jesus to die on the cross so that he could enter heaven. Luke 16:23

Revelation 19:9
Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”
 
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Jan001

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Why did Jesus not mention baptism when talking to Nicodemus ?

Jesus taught many things by his example, but only a few were written down. He commissioned his apostles and his 72 disciples to teach his gospel in person.

John 21:25
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.


Jesus literally showed his disciples how they should baptize people so that they would be "born of water and the spirit" and thereby become his disciples.

John 3:22-23a
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there.
 
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