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Jesus has broken the Sabbath

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Bob S

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FredVB said:
There are not many who want to trust all of what God says, that we do accordingly. But God's will is shown right from the beginning, in the Bible, with what there is meant for us. And God does not change, God's mind doesn't change. There was only some accommodation for humanity in the fallen condition, that opportunity to not perish was available, but all of God's own will is better.
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I have heard the old cliché that God does not change over and over. Maybe if those that say such a thing would read everything that is written instead of just "proof texts" they would see that God has changed His mind. A perfect example was when Moses was up on Mt Sinai and the Israelites were making the golden calf to worship. God was going to destroy all of them, and Moses talked God out of doing it. Ex32: 9-11. God changed the covenants and removed the ritual Holy days the Israelites profaned.
 
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Emun said:
John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

I am aware that most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus did not break the Sabbath and that the Jews had falsely accused him, but if you look at it more closely, the Jews were actually right in their accusation that Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Reason:
The law says you shall not bear any burden on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22). That this commandment is to be understood in exactly this way can be seen from the fact that God had a man stoned to death for carrying only wood on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Jesus broke this commandment by commanding the healed man to carry his bed (John 5:10-11). The Jews were right in their accusation in this regard. And the clear proof that Jesus broke the Sabbath lies in the fact that John the author of the Gospel agrees with this in verse 18. If Jesus had not broken the Sabbath, he would not have expressed himself in this way but would have made it clear that the Jews were lying.

The reason why Jesus broke the ceremonial commandments like the Sabbath was not because he was a sinner for he is sinless but because he wanted to show that these commandments are to be understood spiritually. The Sabbath was never to be the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath was Jesus Christ, who is the true rest in which we should enter, as Paul said. Paul also said that God never wanted animal sacrifices, but that the true sacrifice is Jesus. The Old Testament is only a shadow, the New Testament is the fulfilment and the reality.
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He did say he is Lord of the Sabbath; even if translators did not capitalize Lord, it should have been.
 
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FredVB

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Bob S said:
I have heard the old cliché that God does not change over and over. Maybe if those that say such a thing would read everything that is written instead of just "proof texts" they would see that God has changed His mind. A perfect example was when Moses was up on Mt Sinai and the Israelites were making the golden calf to worship. God was going to destroy all of them, and Moses talked God out of doing it. Ex32: 9-11. God changed the covenants and removed the ritual Holy days the Israelites profaned.
Click to expand...

This is low in the unexamined perspective beyond what I have seen from you before. The old cliché? You conclude from texts that God's mind just changed independently? In Malachi 3:6 it is shown God does not change, not even God's mind. So what is it? When people change their position with God they would see another side, what God is against. God has always been against what God is against. What comes from God then changed, in regard to where they went. God hasn't changed. From what you say you believe I wonder, would you even have the same God to believe in.
 
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Bob S

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FredVB said:
This is low in the unexamined perspective beyond what I have seen from you before. The old cliché? You conclude from texts that God's mind just changed independently? In Malachi 3:6 it is shown God does not change, not even God's mind. So what is it? When people change their position with God they would see another side, what God is against. God has always been against what God is against. What comes from God then changed, in regard to where they went. God hasn't changed. From what you say you believe I wonder, would you even have the same God to believe in.
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Did God or didn't He change His mind, Fred? He is the same Lord, He has not changed, He has, as is written, changed His mind. Why is it so hard to admit?
 
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FredVB

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Bob S said:
Did God or didn't He change His mind, Fred? He is the same Lord, He has not changed, He has, as is written, changed His mind. Why is it so hard to admit?
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This impresses me as so dense. Really? I am not impressed with any reading a passage in the Bible with no depth, without regard to other things in the Bible, and lacking in logic. The answer is NO!

The eternal Being without beginning or end never changes. There is logic to that. Where logic is missing, there is still the Bible verse I have, so it shouldn't be disregarded. So then what there is, that would suggest to not understanding right that God did something wrong, and realized it afterward, to change, is really about results from our changing, when any of us do differently.
 
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Emun said:
John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

I am aware that most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus did not break the Sabbath and that the Jews had falsely accused him, but if you look at it more closely, the Jews were actually right in their accusation that Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Reason:
The law says you shall not bear any burden on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22). That this commandment is to be understood in exactly this way can be seen from the fact that God had a man stoned to death for carrying only wood on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Jesus broke this commandment by commanding the healed man to carry his bed (John 5:10-11). The Jews were right in their accusation in this regard. And the clear proof that Jesus broke the Sabbath lies in the fact that John the author of the Gospel agrees with this in verse 18. If Jesus had not broken the Sabbath, he would not have expressed himself in this way but would have made it clear that the Jews were lying.

The reason why Jesus broke the ceremonial commandments like the Sabbath was not because he was a sinner for he is sinless but because he wanted to show that these commandments are to be understood spiritually. The Sabbath was never to be the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath was Jesus Christ, who is the true rest in which we should enter, as Paul said. Paul also said that God never wanted animal sacrifices, but that the true sacrifice is Jesus. The Old Testament is only a shadow, the New Testament is the fulfilment and the reality.
Click to expand...
When a term like "ceremonial" is used it is for the purpose of reducing the value of what ever it is applied to.

The 10 Commandments are TRUTH and righteousness and they Are eternal, not ceremonial.
When included in the Old Covenant as the "Consideration" the Children had to perform, the Children's contractual duties, they were only physical.
When Christ came to Expand the Torah, HE "filled to the full" the Law by raising it to the spiritual.
Physical adultery was and is still sin, Christ raised adultery to the spiritual level -- only in the mind.
Now just lusting after a women in one's mind is Sin and punishable by death.

I do not consider death to be "ceremonial"
 
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Junotheservant

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Emun said:
John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

I am aware that most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus did not break the Sabbath and that the Jews had falsely accused him, but if you look at it more closely, the Jews were actually right in their accusation that Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Reason:
The law says you shall not bear any burden on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22). That this commandment is to be understood in exactly this way can be seen from the fact that God had a man stoned to death for carrying only wood on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Jesus broke this commandment by commanding the healed man to carry his bed (John 5:10-11). The Jews were right in their accusation in this regard. And the clear proof that Jesus broke the Sabbath lies in the fact that John the author of the Gospel agrees with this in verse 18. If Jesus had not broken the Sabbath, he would not have expressed himself in this way but would have made it clear that the Jews were lying.

The reason why Jesus broke the ceremonial commandments like the Sabbath was not because he was a sinner for he is sinless but because he wanted to show that these commandments are to be understood spiritually. The Sabbath was never to be the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath was Jesus Christ, who is the true rest in which we should enter, as Paul said. Paul also said that God never wanted animal sacrifices, but that the true sacrifice is Jesus. The Old Testament is only a shadow, the New Testament is the fulfilment and the reality.
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Matthew 12: 10 - 12
10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Why can't a man be healed on the Sabbath day? The whole point is Jesus showing and teaching that you can do well on the Sabbath Day. That man carrying his bed showed he was healed, so everyone should be rejoicing. He was not carrying a burden to work. Only thing the unbelievers wanted to do was accuse Jesus, what Jesus did in both situation was lawful. If he broke the Sabbath that meant he committed sin so you're already contradicting yourself in your attempt to convince people they don't need to keep the commandments.


Everyone inside the bible (NT) only ever contend about what is lawful to do on the Sabbath and not the Sabbath being done away or the Sabbath is not the 7th day anymore which is funny because that's what you're doing with this post.
 
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FredVB

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Jesus was not wrong about the Sabbath, that a good work for another is not prohibited. Legalists will not recognize that, but doing good work takes priority. But, it isn't good work if it is work being done that one is paid for. It isn't that good if it is something that might as well have been done previous to that day. But those things were not the case with what Jesus did or said to do.
 
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