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Define the Rapture and history of various versions of it

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Douggg

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keras said:
The Bible does not say the earth will be no more; before the GWT Judgment. Rev 21:1, is planly after the Judgment.
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Yes the bible does say that the earth and its heaven will be no more before the Great White Throne Judgment in verse 11. Where is God's throne, keras ? If there is no earth, nor its heaven, where are you going to be keras ?

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new heaven and new earth of Revelation 21 is not until after the Great White Throne Judgement.

The New Jerusalem comes down to the new earth, from God out of heaven.
 
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keras

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Douggg said:
The new heaven and new earth of Revelation 21 is not until after the Great White Throne Judgement.
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It seems that the Judgment and the old earth disposed of, will happen at the same time. More or less simultaneously. Both after the Millennium.

It will be all of the earthly and mortal world finished and gone. Eternity is entirely Spiritual.
 
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BobRyan said:
The reason for this thread is to avoid confusion on the term "rapture"

Many people will say that it did not exist 300 years ago , when in fact 1 Thess 4 came almost 2000 years ago but the term comes from the latin Vulgate translation of 1 Thess 4... and the preMill post trib rapture form is the oldest Historic PreMill position.

But people generally know the term today for its PRETrib form so when they say "The Rapture is a recent teaching" they really mean "the PRETRIB Rapture" is recent.

All the postTrib rapture people feel somewhat "missed" in that over simplification of the broader topic.

Rapture is very old, PostTrib Rapture is very old... but preTrib rapture has some claim to being newer.
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True - and it is the question among the believers as to when what is termed rapture will take place which causes some division. Whether pre, mid, or post departure.

It is not common knowledge when the pre-rapture teachings began but most will say in the 1800s by John Nelson Darby / Margaret McDonald _ theory made famous in the mid 20th century by evangelists such as Oral Roberts, Billy Graham and a few others.
 
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S

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keras said:
It seems that the Judgment and the old earth disposed of, will happen at the same time. More or less simultaneously. Both after the Millennium.

It will be all of the earthly and mortal world finished and gone. Eternity is entirely Spiritual.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really matter where it will take place exactly, but I would say even though we will not inherit the new heavens and new earth until the judgment is over, that doesn't mean they can't be created just before the judgment with the judgment taking place somewhere within the new heaven or on the new earth.
 
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truthuprootsevil said:
True - and it is the question among the believers as to when what is termed rapture will take place which causes some division. Whether pre, mid, or post departure.

It is not common knowledge when the pre-rapture teachings began but most will say in the 1800s by John Nelson Darby / Margaret McDonald _ theory made famous in the mid 20th century by evangelists such as Oral Roberts, Billy Graham and a few others.
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I agree, but I think in fairness to Billy Graham it was not something that he talked about a lot or put much emphasis on, from my understanding. Not like other famous pre-trib teachers like Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe and Tim LaHaye.
 
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linux.poet

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MOD HAT ON​

This thread has had a cleanup of off-topic posts.​

We can discuss SDA views on Eschatology without discussing SDA views on the Sabbath here in this thread. If you want to discuss SDA views on the Sabbath, go to the Sabbath and the Law subforum to present your argument for or against those views. If you want to flame SDAs as a “sect”, find another website.

This thread is being reopened.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 
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keras

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It is actually proof that the 'rapture to heaven' theory is false: how there is no real consensus about when it will? happen.

The whole 'rapture to heaven' theory falls flat when it is realized that only Spiritual beings inhabit heaven. It is not until the GWT Judgement that those mortal humans, dead or alive, whose names are found in the Book of Life, are given immortality. Not even the GT martyrs, who will be resurrected back to life by Jesus, or Moses, or David, or Billy Graham, get immortality before the final Judgment.
 
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The Liturgist

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keras said:
It is actually proof that the 'rapture to heaven' theory is false: how there is no real consensus about when it will? happen.

The whole 'rapture to heaven' theory falls flat when it is realized that only Spiritual beings inhabit heaven. It is not until the GWT Judgement that those mortal humans, dead or alive, whose names are found in the Book of Life, are given immortality. Not even the GT martyrs, who will be resurrected back to life by Jesus, or Moses, or David, or Billy Graham, get immortality before the final Judgment.
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I’m sorry, what now? Are you claiming St. Moses the Prophet, St. David the King and Prophet, and the Rev. Billy Graham, memory eternal, will personally resurrect people at the Last Judgement?
 
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The Liturgist

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keras said:
It seems that the Judgment and the old earth disposed of, will happen at the same time. More or less simultaneously. Both after the Millennium.

It will be all of the earthly and mortal world finished and gone. Eternity is entirely Spiritual.
Click to expand...

In the Nicene Creed we confess a belief in the resurrection of the Body and the life of the world to come, and eschatological texts in the New Testament very clearly describe a physical World to Come.
 
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