‘The Office of Pastor Is Limited to Men’—Albert Mohler’s Amendment to SBC Constitution Passes Initial Vote

Southern Baptist, I'm not surprised.

For what it is worth...

To my knowledge, he hasn't specifically addressed his earlier comments about a woman as part of a panel on church pod-cast being "a problem". However, he does appear to have backed off that stance and has attempted a bit of clarification and reassurance that the focus would be on women pastors preaching to the congregation and not all the other roles that could be construed as being pastoral or teaching / having authority over men in title or function.


From the article above -

Several media questions addressed concerns by churches that individuals would nevertheless expand the amendment’s intention in an attempt to narrow women’s ministry roles. Mohler disagreed.

“Let me be very clear, I don’t think the Southern Baptist Convention has the will to go into the life and ministry of individual churches,” he said. “I don’t think [the SBC] has any will to spend a great deal of its time and energy basically asking questions beyond what is specified.”


Earlier in the day, International Mission Board President Paul Chitwood mentioned concerns he had received from female missionaries related to the amendment.

“I do not think this applies to any setting other than the setting of the church,” Mohler said. “That would be the church wherever it’s found, but it defines the church in friendly cooperation with the Southern Baptist Convention. … This specifies one [central] function – preaching to the gathered assembly. I don’t think it says anything about anyone teaching Sunday School [or] missionary services. It doesn’t intend to.”

One reporter put forward the example of a woman giving her testimony during a worship service. Is that preaching?

“I would love to hear my wife share her testimony Sunday morning in church,” Mohler said, “if asked by the pastor and elders to do that. That’s not preaching.

“Legendary in Southern Baptist life was Ms. Bertha Smith, a famous missionary,” he continued. “She would give a testimony, and some of those went really long. I don’t think the SBC entertains any such action to contemplate whether Ms. Bertha Smith was violating Scripture.

“Let me be abundantly clear. The Southern Baptist Convention doesn’t deal with eccentricities. … That’s why I replaced ‘such as,’ which is indicative, with ‘specifically, which isolates.’”

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Will the SBC continue to feel and operate that way or will some try to stretch the boundaries of the amendment to include the things Mohler says are off the table? Only time will tell..

If my memory serves me correctly, Southern Baptist are the most strict about women having any type of leadership. So honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to go far off down the road with it and make insane statements that it includes podcasts and general opinions.

Delvianna said:

If my memory serves me correctly, Southern Baptist are the most strict about women having any type of leadership. So honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to go far off down the road with it and make insane statements that it includes podcasts and general opinions.

Click to expand...

Eh - it depends.

Many IFB churches are more strict / repressive about women's roles than SBC churches.

Even within SBC churches there is variance. For example, the SBC church on the corner may be fine with a woman teaching a mixed Sunday school class. However, a woman teaching a mixed Sunday school class might be a very hard NO for the SBC church 20 miles down the road, even though they are both SBC.

This is because the SBC has previously been big on "church autonomy" (even though this vote takes a step backward from that).

For now, the SBC wants it in their constitution (and statement of faith) that a woman cannot be a pastor in title or function. However, as long as the pastor is male, they are content to leave it up to the local church to sort out if the male pastor fills (or not) all other qualifications laid out in scripture.

In short, if your pastor is a woman - then the church cannot be part of the SBC. However, if your pastor is a male and fails in any of the other Biblical qualifications, then its up to the local church to sort that out (or not), seems to be gist of this.

I admit, to me, that brings up the old saying about "What is good for goose is good for the gander" as well and that doesn't sit 100% well with me. I don't think it is Biblical to let unqualified men get a free pass just because they are men while focusing solely on women. As I said in another thread, by their own count in the Law Amendment, churches with women pastors made up about 0.4% of SBC churches. Hopefully the SBC remembers to check for both beams and motes during eye exams.

JustaPewFiller said:

Biblical to let unqualified men get a free pass just because they are men

Click to expand...

How would you determine if someone is “qualified”
Is it not God who qualifies who’s called to an office?
How would you even approach such a thing?
Corporate prayer and fasting?
Or would it be merely who’s got a seminary degree?
These are legitimate questions btw

Lost Witness said:

How would you determine if someone is “qualified”
Is it not God who qualifies who’s called to an office?
How would you even approach such a thing?
Corporate prayer and fasting?
Or would it be merely who’s got a seminary degree?
These are legitimate questions btw

Click to expand...

Different denominations have different ways to determine on who is "qualified".

I sure hope the woman pastor preaches this Sunday where I am. When the other men in the church preach, the results are not near as good. She however is sometimes gone though, since she has also oversees about 6 other churches in the nearby towns. I thank God the Foursquare denomination (started by a woman) allows women who are equipped to take on whatever role they can do effectively.

And go in circles about women pastors. It all comes down to scripture, both for and against, but it always ends up going to how they feel about it. At the end of the day, it all comes down to whether there's a scriptural basis for either view. If scripture doesn't enter into it, then that's a warning sign.

Lost Witness said:

How would you determine if someone is “qualified”
Is it not God who qualifies who’s called to an office?
How would you even approach such a thing?
Corporate prayer and fasting?
Or would it be merely who’s got a seminary degree?
These are legitimate questions btw

Click to expand...

All good questions. My sincere attempt at a legitimate answer below, and the views are strictly my own. You asked how I would do it, so that is what I'm basing my answer on.

Prayer and fasting would certainly play a part, as would Scripture and some old fashioned codification and detective work. The SBC is very fond proclaiming Scripture to be their guide and that would be my tract as well. It is easy to determine someone's gender and use that to qualify or disqualify someone based on Scripture. But, the Bible has a host of other qualifications. Why should we throw our hands up and say "Those are just too tough to decipher and implement!!"? Lets look at them. The ones most often used are 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9

Lets look at 1 Timothy 3:1-7..

3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Click to expand...

Now the hard part, we have to put some definitions that we agree on about what those Scriptural qualifications mean and how to tell if someone meets them or not.

The "husband of one wife" was often used in the argument against women pastors. But what men does it disqualify? Are men that are never married ok? Are men that are divorced ok? Are men that are divorced and remarried ok? Once you define it, then that is easy to check.

"sober" and "not given to wine" - a little drinking is ok, or no drinking? You'll probably have to take the person's word and the word of people that know the candiate for this. But again, once it is defined you know what to look for.

"blameless....good behavior..., no striker,... not greedy, ....not a brawler, ..not covetous ...etc" Well, these are actually fairly easy to frame measurements against. These days backgrounds are available and history is not too hard to dig into. Has he been arrested? Any criminal or civil court cases he's been involved in? What's his credit score? (Amazingly I've seen people with no record get disqualified from a job due to a poor credit score. The logic was that people with poor credit scores are more likely to steal.). What does the last 90 days of his internet browsing history and social media postings look like? Does there internet activity reflect Godly character? Would they want their private facebook posts and texts read out to the congregation on Sunday morning? Again, you (or the denomination or church) has to decide what each of those mean and what disqualifies a person based on those meanings. But, I don't see it as that hard and once it is defined. There are plenty of ways to check.

"One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity" - Does this disqualify men with no children? What does this mean and how to measure it? Is he disqualified if his children are not believers? Is he disqualified if his children are LGBT? Is he disqualified if his children have juvinlie records? At what age is he no longer responsibe for his children's actions? etc. However, it is the same as the other qualifications in that once you determine measurable disqualifiers you can easily implement them.

I could go on, but I think you get the drift. Pray, fast, study Scripture and develop and apply some verifiable rules around what those Biblical qualfications would look like in a person. Then, apply those rules. It is easy to look at a woman and quote a verse or two of Scripture and say, "She's not qualifed because she's a woman!" I agree, that is more difficult when the candidate is a man, but it is far far far from impossible. Would a man willingly go through that much scrutiny to be a pastor? That may be another question..

That's my legitimate and sincere answer. I am far from an expert on anything. Greater minds than mine may provide a better answer. But, I do not think that it is impossible to follow Scripture when it comes to male qualifications just because it isn't as easy. If you are going to go by specific Scriptural interpretations from the top down for pastoral qualifications - then do that. If you are going to leave it up to the local church to interpret the Scripture for pastoral qualifications - then do that. Whatever you do, just do it consistently for both men and women.

@Lost Witness I want to add to what Justapewfiller mentioned and say that when you research, don't forget the context of why Paul is writing in the first place. The history of the area he was writing to and their issues. People who argue against women leadership don't take that into account and read the text as face value and say "women aren't mentioned there for, God is against this" which isn't accurate. So even if you're looking at what qualifies a person in general as a Pastor, broaden the scope of text, and never leave out history and culture out of the equation.

I personally would sum up who qualifies as a Pastor as this.. Someone who:
1) Is called by God
2) Doesn't just show spiritual fruit but is a mature Christian that has studied scripture for a while.
3) Understands, knows and follows the directions that scripture teaches.

I personally couldn't care less if someone has a theological degree or went to seminary as people who have, seem to fail in one of those 3 that I listed. And I've also found that some of the best leadership who has all 3, can also never have gone to seminary and don't hold a degree. Because they took the time to study and let God teach them over time. They learned from others, learned from mistakes and got to a point where God is the one who said they were then ready. And those kinds of people make a big impact and is like night and day difference when you talk to them. The wisdom is evident.

JustaPewFiller said:

All good questions. My sincere attempt at a legitimate answer below, and the views are strictly my own. You asked how I would do it, so that is what I'm basing my answer on.

Prayer and fasting would certainly play a part, as would Scripture and some old fashioned codification and detective work. The SBC is very fond proclaiming Scripture to be their guide and that would be my tract as well. It is easy to determine someone's gender and use that to qualify or disqualify someone based on Scripture. But, the Bible has a host of other qualifications. Why should we throw our hands up and say "Those are just too tough to decipher and implement!!"? Lets look at them. The ones most often used are 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9

Lets look at 1 Timothy 3:1-7..




Now the hard part, we have to put some definitions that we agree on about what those Scriptural qualifications mean and how to tell if someone meets them or not.

The "husband of one wife" was often used in the argument against women pastors. But what men does it disqualify? Are men that are never married ok? Are men that are divorced ok? Are men that are divorced and remarried ok? Once you define it, then that is easy to check.

"sober" and "not given to wine" - a little drinking is ok, or no drinking? You'll probably have to take the person's word and the word of people that know the candiate for this. But again, once it is defined you know what to look for.

"blameless....good behavior..., no striker,... not greedy, ....not a brawler, ..not covetous ...etc" Well, these are actually fairly easy to frame measurements against. These days backgrounds are available and history is not too hard to dig into. Has he been arrested? Any criminal or civil court cases he's been involved in? What's his credit score? (Amazingly I've seen people with no record get disqualified from a job due to a poor credit score. The logic was that people with poor credit scores are more likely to steal.). What does the last 90 days of his internet browsing history and social media postings look like? Does there internet activity reflect Godly character? Would they want their private facebook posts and texts read out to the congregation on Sunday morning? Again, you (or the denomination or church) has to decide what each of those mean and what disqualifies a person based on those meanings. But, I don't see it as that hard and once it is defined. There are plenty of ways to check.

"One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity" - Does this disqualify men with no children? What does this mean and how to measure it? Is he disqualified if his children are not believers? Is he disqualified if his children are LGBT? Is he disqualified if his children have juvinlie records? At what age is he no longer responsibe for his children's actions? etc. However, it is the same as the other qualifications in that once you determine measurable disqualifiers you can easily implement them.

I could go on, but I think you get the drift. Pray, fast, study Scripture and develop and apply some verifiable rules around what those Biblical qualfications would look like in a person. Then, apply those rules. It is easy to look at a woman and quote a verse or two of Scripture and say, "She's not qualifed because she's a woman!" I agree, that is more difficult when the candidate is a man, but it is far far far from impossible. Would a man willingly go through that much scrutiny to be a pastor? That may be another question..

That's my legitimate and sincere answer. I am far from an expert on anything. Greater minds than mine may provide a better answer. But, I do not think that it is impossible to follow Scripture when it comes to male qualifications just because it isn't as easy. If you are going to go by specific Scriptural interpretations from the top down for pastoral qualifications - then do that. If you are going to leave it up to the local church to interpret the Scripture for pastoral qualifications - then do that. Whatever you do, just do it consistently for both men and women.

Click to expand...

Your framework makes sense but one of the biggest questions remains as to who gets to choose the Pastor? In some churches it is the denominational leaders. In other denominations the congregation votes on it. One has to consider too the available talent pool. To me, the best source of new leadership is to create the next pastor within the local church.
I remember the late Dave Roberson's telling of this vision he had. I would not make doctrine out of it, but it is interesting, especially since he went on to become quite the evangelist.

"But as I started to stand up, the associate pastor turned and pointed to the stage curtain. A blond-haired woman came out onto the platform. It was obvious that she was full of God’s love, and the anointing — the power of the Holy Spirit — flowed out of her like honey. It was so thick and sweet, you could almost cut it! I sank back into my chair in utter disbelief. I knew it was supposed to be my meeting. The woman took the microphone and ministered the grace of God beautifully. Then God’s power fell, and all the people got up out of their wheelchairs. The altar filled with people confessing Jesus as Savior. The whole service was full of power and anointing. When it was all over, the rest of the crowd disappeared; it was just me and this woman in the auditorium. Then she looked directly at me and said, “I don’t know why God has given me this kind of ministry; one of you men must have failed.” Testimony Share – Dave Roberson’s Testimony: My Personal Journey to Revelation Knowledge

Given the struggles of the SBC. I offer this history of Pentecostals on the role of women. From my question to google Ai:

My hypothesis is that famous Pentecostal women preachers have huge obstacles in their marriages. If we consider Amiee Simple McPherson, Katherine Kuhlman and ? (another other famous women pentecostals}? Does my hypothesis sound viable?

"Yes, your hypothesis is highly viable.
Historically, the structural and theological realities of early-to-mid 20th-century Pentecostalism created a perfect storm for severe marital conflict, particularly for female leaders. To test and solidify your hypothesis, you can examine the three specific historical dynamics driving this trend and look at a fourth major pioneer to round out your case study.

---

1. Proof Cases: The Famous Trio
Your hypothesis perfectly aligns with the lives of the three most influential women in Pentecostal history:

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View attachment 380291
Maria Woodworth-Etter: Faced immense marital strain with her first husband, Philo. He actively opposed her calling, exploited her ministry for financial gain, and committed repeated adultery, leading to their scandalous 1891 divorce. [1]

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View attachment 380290
Aimee Semple McPherson: Her first husband, Robert Semple, died tragically. Her second marriage to Robert McPherson ended in divorce because he could not handle the nomadic, intense lifestyle of her independent evangelism. Her third marriage to David Hutton also collapsed in a highly publicized divorce. [1]

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View attachment 380293
Kathryn Kuhlman: Married Burroughs Waltrip, an evangelist who divorced his wife and abandoned his children to be with her. The marriage caused catastrophic damage to her ministry, prompting local pastors to denounce her. She left him after a few years, famously stating she had to "die a thousand deaths" and choose her calling over her marriage. They officially divorced in 1948. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

2. The Missing Link: Jimee "Daisy" Washburn McLean
To round out your study, you should consider Daisy Washburn McLean (or her contemporary Ida Robinson, founder of the Mt. Sinai Holy Church of America).

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View attachment 380292
Ida Robinson faced sharp marital and societal friction when she broke away from her existing church specifically because they refused to ordain women. She chose absolute dedication to building her own denomination over traditional domestic expectations, heavily straining family dynamics.

---

Why the Hypothesis is Viable (3 Core Obstacles)
The structural reasons these women faced such profound marital turbulence include:

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│ STRUCTURAL CAUSES OF MARITAL TURBULENCE ├────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┤
1. THE SUBMISSION PARADOX - Pentecostal theology valued spiritual equality but
culturally demanded strict domestic submission.
2. ECOSYSTEM OF ECO-FAME - Husbands often resented being secondary figures
to their globally famous financially independent wives.
3. THE "CALLING VS. COVENANT" ULTIMATUM - Societal stigma meant these women had to
choose between preserving a broken marriage or obeying their perceived divine mandate."

So in Pentecostal history, early great anointed women struggled with their marriage and the cultural context of them preaching. The exception Ai pointed out was Daisy Osborn (McClean). Her husband T.L. Osborn teamed with her perfectly The Osborns were super effective because they did not have that constant struggle of women in ministry, they overcame it and serve as a great example to all Pentecostal women and men as to what to expect in the ministry of women. Daisy Osborn authored three books toward women around the same time as Kenneth Hagin wrote his book " The Woman Question." So to me this question is pretty much settled in most Pentecostal denominations. Either struggle like the early Pentecostal women did (or shut them out), or accept the blessing like the Osborn's did. Many charismatic, Assembly of God, Foursquare Gospel, churches have women co-pastors, some have women pastors. The Church of God allows women to be ordained, but not bishops in the hierarchy above the local church. It is the anointing the breaks the yoke, not the gender. This does not disqualify the other directives as to what to look for in a pastor or church leader but I think for most Pentecostals it settles the question on the role of women.

• Woman Without Limits, The Woman Believer, and Women & Self-Esteem.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

Richard T said:

Your framework makes sense but one of the biggest questions remains as to who gets to choose the Pastor? In some churches it is the denominational leaders. In other denominations the congregation votes on it. One has to consider too the available talent pool. To me, the best source of new leadership is to create the next pastor within the local church.
I remember the late Dave Roberson's telling of this vision he had. I would not make doctrine out of it, but it is interesting, especially since he went on to become quite the evangelist.

"But as I started to stand up, the associate pastor turned and pointed to the stage curtain. A blond-haired woman came out onto the platform. It was obvious that she was full of God’s love, and the anointing — the power of the Holy Spirit — flowed out of her like honey. It was so thick and sweet, you could almost cut it! I sank back into my chair in utter disbelief. I knew it was supposed to be my meeting. The woman took the microphone and ministered the grace of God beautifully. Then God’s power fell, and all the people got up out of their wheelchairs. The altar filled with people confessing Jesus as Savior. The whole service was full of power and anointing. When it was all over, the rest of the crowd disappeared; it was just me and this woman in the auditorium. Then she looked directly at me and said, “I don’t know why God has given me this kind of ministry; one of you men must have failed.” Testimony Share – Dave Roberson’s Testimony: My Personal Journey to Revelation Knowledge

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Granted, my framework was very legalistic, controlling, etc. I admit, I wouldn't like to be under it.

My reasoning behind it was this. If you reject interpretations of Scripture that allow for women pastors, then surely all the other Scriptural qualifications for pastor / elder / overseer are valid as well (1 Timothy 3:1-7). To put it another way, I don't see how having a woman pastor that meets all the other qualifications could be more Scripturaly unsound than having an angry male who cheats on his wife as a pastor. However, the current system in place is doing its best to ensure the woman pastor is rooted out immediately. While the male pastor may linger, drift from church to church, etc for years or until he retires. Admittedly I was looking for a way try and ensure all the qualfications got the same level of scrutiny as gender is getting.