• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The DINK Delusion: Why the Childless Dream Is a Dead End

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
190,350
70,488
Woods
✟6,571,309.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Consider two couples at a dinner party in a prosperous American suburb. Both are in their late thirties. Both are educated, professionally accomplished, and by every measurable standard of modern life, successful.

The first couple — call them Mark and Claire — are what the culture celebrates. Advanced degrees. Senior careers. A renovated townhouse. Annual trips to Europe. They have been married eleven years. They have no children. This was not an accident or a sorrow. It was, as they would explain, a deliberate choice to prioritize freedom, partnership, and intentional living.

The second couple — call them James and Rebecca — represent something the culture has largely lost its category for. James earns a solidly middle-class salary. Rebecca has not held outside employment in nine years. They have six children, a used minivan with permanently embedded crackers in the back seats, and a house that is never entirely clean. If you ask them about their life, they will use words that sound almost arcane: calling, vocation, blessing, heritage.

Which couple is building something that will last? Which of them is rich?

The U.S. fertility rate dropped to 1.599 births per woman in 2024 — an all-time recorded low. For a civilization to replace itself, you need 2.1. South Korea has reached 0.72, barely above a third of replacement level. Korean demographers have begun describing the situation not as a policy challenge but as civilizational extinction.

We receive these numbers the way we receive news of distant earthquakes: with momentary attention and no change of behavior.

C.S. Lewis once warned that a civilization that loses its confidence in objective values does not merely adopt different values. It produces what he called “men without chests” — human beings with intellect and appetite but no formed moral center, incapable of the sacrificial commitments that civilization requires. A society of men without chests does not maintain marriages through difficult times. And, as we are now discovering, it does not have children.

Continued below.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jas3

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
18,279
2,149
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟368,314.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This has been developing for years. It began with feminism and though a rightful issue that women were being descriminated against. Like most world ideologies it evolves into an all encompassing worldview in how humans and the world is ordered.

This has coincided with the gradual rejection of God and the natural laws order.

So it is understandable that once God is rejected that a new moral and worldview meaning will fill the void. A human made one but every bit a religious type belief.

In some ways the worlds idea of what is the key to a happy and a good life is self destructive. Because its not about what is best but who is best. So long as its not God and Christs truth.

Which is rejecting what is the true way to the best life as Christ said He was the way, truth and life that we all seek.
 

linux.poet

Love does not insist on its own way
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
7,759
2,951
Poway
✟531,096.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Economically, we are using fossil fuels to subsidize crop yields. It's better not to have children than to have them and have them die in en mass when we run out of gas. A reduction in the human population is nothing to cry over.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
15,081
6,754
Massachusetts
✟677,676.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It depends on how the children are brought up.

And, by the way, there are couples who do not have children and they are devoted to the Lord. Among other possibilitities, I suppose, the couple could have professions essential to supporting ministry and for the infrastructure of a society, and in order to fulfill their labor they would not be able to give ample time and attention to their children. And so they do the responsible thing.

Meanwhile, there are parents who do not give ample time and attention to their children. And they leave their kids in the hands of people who are out to make money caring for kids. And so, such children can grow up to not have feeling for caring for an unborn child and born children > their parents have not inspired them.

So - - in case a couple is self-serving . . . either by having children they hope to use in their lives, or by not having children . . . whether they do or don't have children is not the main concern. But how they got to where they are is the concern > how is it that they have the character to be self-serving?

The number of children is not the truly meaningful measure, then, but what matters is the quality of people's character.

We have predators in pulpits . . . by the way. Often enough, those psychopaths were brought up in households having the religion in which the predator became a pulpit person. The person grew up learning the acting of that religion's culture!! Those parents who brought up predators possibly help to produce those people, with the help of copy-cat culture which a predator could learn to use as camouflage.

So we need, then, to deal with the quality of character of the children who are brought up.

By the way, also > if whole groups can ordain and trust a predator . . . how is it that they can't tell the difference between a person of such Satanic stuff, versus a person who ministers in God's own love?? I will offer > Satan is not the same as Jesus!! So, if people can bring up predators, plus not be able to tell the difference . . . this needs attention.

Because Jesus Christ's sheep hear His voice. Jesus makes His sheep able to tell the difference > John 10:1-30, Philippians 1:9, Hebrews 4:15. But I have been told that various religious groups have been discovering that predators have made it through their seminaries and past ones responsible to evaluate them, and into pulpits. To me, this means a certain number of people can not tell the difference between a person of God's love and someone who is Satanic.

And how does the foolery work? I will offer > in selfish and worldly culture, people have their "you can use me" act that they put on with each other > if you talk smart, this shows you are smart enough to understand what someone else wants; and act charming so others will believe you will be nice about doing what they want. And this can work in order to get into the pulpits of some number of churches > put on the talk show that people are looking for, and in you can go.

**Self-congratulating** groups are looking for ones who talk their talk and put on their show. So, if you can put on the theological intellectual gymnastics demonstration that they are looking for . . . this can tweak their pride very well.

Some number of people are evaluating whom they marry and whom they trust to be pastors, going by their outward acting. But Jesus is clear >

"'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24)

Make sure with God. Our Father personally guides us while we obey how He takes care of us. He will guide us according to what He knows is really true about people.

And children can tell. They see how their parents are religious but it isn't working for them. They can see how there is acting. And this does not inspire children to want to get married and to bring up children. Instead, a number of kids gang with peers and they go after different sorts of pleasures and excitement. They are with others like themselves, not with mature adults who help to show them how to relate in love. And so they do not grow up appreciating marriage and tenderly cherishing unborn children and appreciating being trusted with children whom they can help to bring up.

I note how there is a lot of leaving kids with other kids . . . so they can learn how to relate with each other. But they do not spend at least as much time sharing with mature role models who are examples of how to relate in a close relationship. And so they are inspired by each other, and they do not grow up hearing the voice and feeding on the example of mature parenting. And then parents wonder why their kids don't listen to them > their kids have been hearing other voices!!

> the voices of TV and smart phones and the voices of musicians who have problems, often enough, and who are not fit to be voices in anyone's life . . . the voices of peers . . .

A child can bond with the one who gives the child attention; that person's voice can be the one that gets heard. However, I would say . . . be prayerful and humble about if you really are ready to be someone a child is hearing. God does use example, also, and prayer. Example can speak louder than words.

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Only God is able to change our character so we really are tuned to His voice. And with Him we can discover what to do.
 
Upvote 0

jas3

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2023
1,475
1,076
The South
✟129,159.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
A reduction in the human population is nothing to cry over.
The issue isn't a reduction in the human population so much as the shift toward self-centered living and a loss of understanding of marriage and family life. If people were just choosing to remain single, there wouldn't be an issue. The fact that most people don't bat an eye at unmarried couples living together and see children as a tragic burden instead of a blessing speaks to serious moral decay.
 
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Love does not insist on its own way
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
7,759
2,951
Poway
✟531,096.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
The issue isn't a reduction in the human population so much as the shift toward self-centered living and a loss of understanding of marriage and family life. If people were just choosing to remain single, there wouldn't be an issue. The fact that most people don't bat an eye at unmarried couples living together and see children as a tragic burden instead of a blessing speaks to serious moral decay.
I can't afford to have children, which is the case for many couples today. The selfishness spoken of here is outdated, replaced by want and poverty. The economy cannot afford to house and support the current population comfortably.
 
Upvote 0

jas3

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2023
1,475
1,076
The South
✟129,159.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I can't afford to have children, which is the case for many couples today. The selfishness spoken of here is outdated, replaced by want and poverty. The economy cannot afford to house and support the current population comfortably.
The median household income for DINKs is $193,900. Let's not pretend that the overwhelming majority of these couples couldn't afford to have even one child.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

Sabertooth

Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints!
Site Supporter
Jul 25, 2005
10,883
7,270
64
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,250,763.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I hadn't come across the acronym "DINK" before. I looked it up on Google, and apparently it means "Double (or Dual) Income, No Kids." I thought I'd post that in case others were puzzled by it, as I was.
We had ten living children, and now have eleven grandchildren.

We refer to ourselves as SILKs:
Single​
Income,​
Lotsa​
Kids...! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: David Lamb
Upvote 0