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Talarico recants past statements, says he was 'intentionally provocative' by calling God 'non-binary'

ViaCrucis

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No. It did not.

Then either you didn't read it, or you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

Let's break it down.

Yes, within the Christian faith, Jesus was fully human and biologically male.[1]

I have repeatedly said in this thread that God the Son (Jesus) became man, and in becoming man, is male.

According to Christian theology:
  • God the Father and the Holy Spirit are spirit, meaning God does not have a physical body or a biological sex.

There it is, right there. God, in His Divine Essence, does not have a physical body or a biological sex. God does not, in His Divine Essence, have gender.

God the Father (who never became Incarnate) is not a male.
God the Holy Spirit (who never became Incarnate) is not a male.

  • Jesus (God the Son) chose to enter the world as an incarnate human, taking on a male physical body.
  • Being the "second Adam," Jesus came as a man to represent humanity. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

God the Son, WHO BECAME INCARNATE, is male, because He's human.

If you are exploring the theological or historical reasons behind this, I can:
  • Detail the historical and cultural significance of Jesus being a man in first-century Judea.
  • Discuss what early Christian scholars wrote about gender and the Divine.
  • Explain how both men and women are viewed as being made in the image of God. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
according to traditional Christian theology, Jesus will always be male. In the Incarnation, the Son of God took on human nature permanently. His resurrected, glorified body retains His historical, physical characteristics, including His male identity. [1, 2, 3, 4]
The belief that Jesus' male identity is eternal is rooted in several foundational teachings: [1]
  • The Eternal God-Man: Christian theology teaches that Jesus did not just "borrow" a human body temporarily; He is forever the God-man. Centuries after His ascension, the Apostle Paul referred to Him in 1 Timothy 2:5 as "the man Christ Jesus". [1, 2, 3]
  • The Resurrection Pattern: Following His resurrection, Jesus retained His physical form, ate with His disciples, and allowed them to touch His crucifixion wounds. He was fully recognizable to others as a man. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • Glorified Humanity: Glorification does not mean the erasure of physical traits. Instead, it means the body is perfected, imperishable, and free from decay, weakness, and the effects of sin. [1, 2]
Because Jesus retains His perfected humanity, His male gender is considered an eternal aspect of His glorified human nature. [1, 2, 3]

All of this re-affirms that Jesus, in His humanity, is male.

So where, exactly, does any of this disagree with what I've said in this thread?
 
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Vambram

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God the FATHER is male. Anyone saying and believing otherwise is, IMO, directly contradicting thousands of verses of Scriptures and also contradicting Jesus Christ, Moses, David, Solomon, the Prophets and the Apostles. The Scriptures explicitly, and plainly, show that the Lord God Almighty God the FATHER is male.
 
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Tuur

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You're right this isn't the subject. But I am going to ask you something that I want you to think long and hard about.
Who is out there waving the Confederate flag. Do they support Democrats or Republicans? And be honest.
Locally, it's re-enactment groups. Your point?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Wrong on all counts.

1. Supporters of slavery were Democrats, not Republicans.
@ViaCrucis didn't say anything about party affiliation. He said "Trump voters," which is not synonymous with "Republican." It would be more accurate to describe them as right-wing authoritarians with a strong affinity for clear social heirarchies. Maybe they're currently sorted into the Republican party, but that wasn't always the case.
 
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Vambram

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@ViaCrucis didn't say anything about party affiliation. He said "Trump voters," which is not synonymous with "Republican." It would be more accurate to describe them as right-wing authoritarians with a strong affinity for clear social heirarchies. Maybe they're currently sorted into the Republican party, but that wasn't always the case.
Trump voters are not anything like what you have described.
 
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Vambram

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Point out where what I've been saying and your AI generated answer disagree.

Be specific please.
Please be specific about why thousands of verses use male nouns, male pronouns, and male verbs for God the Father.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Please be specific about why thousands of verses use male nouns, male pronouns, and male verbs for God the Father.

Well in the cultural context of the Ancient Near East masculine imagery makes a lot of sense, given the general patriarchal tone of that culture. Simultaneously the Bible frequently challenges cultural motifs in order to assert that God is greater than human category.

In the Ancient Near East divinity was often depicted visually--in anthropomorphic and animal (or hybrid) forms. We see this happen, for example, when Moses ascended the mountain and the people pressured Aaron to make a golden calf. But the Bible routinely undermines and denies trying to turn the real God into something you can see--in the image of man or beast. So when Moses climbs the mountain and desires that God reveal His glory, God says, "No one can see Me and live". There is a thick cloud of darkness, impenetrable to human sight. St. Paul will, much later, speak of how God dwells in "unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see".

The Prophet Isaiah affirms the infinite and unfathomable reality of God, "To whom will you compare Me?" and also "My ways are not your ways, neither are My thoughts your thoughts".

This is why the great theologians of the Church have always confessed that our cataphatic affirmations about God are limited. So that, for example, Thomas Aquinas has written, in his Summa, "We cannot know what God is, but only what He is not." Centuries earlier St. Gregory Nazianzus had written in his Theological Orations, "What God is in nature and essence, no man ever yet has discovered or can discover."

This is why we do not meet God in His incomprehensibility, we meet God in what He has done--most definitively: We meet God in the flesh and blood, the life, suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

To, therefore, assert that the use of masculine language about God indicates God is male is no different than to assert that any form of anthropomorphic language means God has eyes, hands, a mouth, etc. Which, of course, to assert positively would be obvious idolatry. To think that God is, fundamentally, a giant sky man, is a very Pagan idea. But it is entirely contrary to the Biblical revelation, and what both Jews and Christians have always believed about the one true God. We do not worship a giant sky man. We worship the incomprehensible Creator--and we do not claim to know Him as He is in His unknowability--but in the knowability of His Son who became flesh, in Christ.

Again, the things I'm saying are ordinary Christian doctrine. Don't believe me? Go ask your pastor.
 
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Vambram

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Well in the cultural context of the Ancient Near East masculine imagery makes a lot of sense, given the general patriarchal tone of that culture. Simultaneously the Bible frequently challenges cultural motifs in order to assert that God is greater than human category.

In the Ancient Near East divinity was often depicted visually--in anthropomorphic and animal (or hybrid) forms. We see this happen, for example, when Moses ascended the mountain and the people pressured Aaron to make a golden calf. But the Bible routinely undermines and denies trying to turn the real God into something you can see--in the image of man or beast. So when Moses climbs the mountain and desires that God reveal His glory, God says, "No one can see Me and live". There is a thick cloud of darkness, impenetrable to human sight. St. Paul will, much later, speak of how God dwells in "unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see".

The Prophet Isaiah affirms the infinite and unfathomable reality of God, "To whom will you compare Me?" and also "My ways are not your ways, neither are My thoughts your thoughts".

This is why the great theologians of the Church have always confessed that our cataphatic affirmations about God are limited. So that, for example, Thomas Aquinas has written, in his Summa, "We cannot know what God is, but only what He is not." Centuries earlier St. Gregory Nazianzus had written in his Theological Orations, "What God is in nature and essence, no man ever yet has discovered or can discover."

This is why we do not meet God in His incomprehensibility, we meet God in what He has done--most definitively: We meet God in the flesh and blood, the life, suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

To, therefore, assert that the use of masculine language about God indicates God is male is no different than to assert that any form of anthropomorphic language means God has eyes, hands, a mouth, etc. Which, of course, to assert positively would be obvious idolatry. To think that God is, fundamentally, a giant sky man, is a very Pagan idea. But it is entirely contrary to the Biblical revelation, and what both Jews and Christians have always believed about the one true God. We do not worship a giant sky man. We worship the incomprehensible Creator--and we do not claim to know Him as He is in His unknowability--but in the knowability of His Son who became flesh, in Christ.

Again, the things I'm saying are ordinary Christian doctrine. Don't believe me? Go ask your pastor.
My pastors, and Bible professors at my Baptist colleges agree with me that The Lord God is male. What you are saying is NOT ordinary Christian doctrine.
Isn’t it interesting that in your own posts that you use male pronouns when referring to God? I'm going to stick and stay with what God Himself and the Bible says about The Lord God. It's most definitely true that we don't worship a giant sky man. It is also most definitely true that the Creator of the Heavens, the Earth, and the universe is most definitely male because He Himself has said so.
 
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ViaCrucis

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My pastors, and Bible professors at my Baptist colleges agree with me that The Lord God is male. What you are saying is NOT ordinary Christian doctrine.

That's very disappointing to hear.

Isn’t it interesting that in your own posts that you use male pronouns when referring to God?

I don't know why it would be. It is normal in Christian practice to use masculine pronouns when referring to God.

I'm going to stick and stay with what God Himself and the Bible says about The Lord God. It's most definitely true that we don't worship a giant sky man. It is also most definitely true that the Creator of the Heavens, the Earth, and the universe is most definitely male because He Himself has said so.

The Bible doesn't say God is male.

That is a heterodox view that has no basis in the biblical or historic Christian tradition.
 
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Vambram

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That's very disappointing to hear.



I don't know why it would be. It is normal in Christian practice to use masculine pronouns when referring to God.



The Bible doesn't say God is male.

That is a heterodox view that has no basis in the biblical or historic Christian tradition.
I'm sorry that you think it is disappointing to hear. However, the biblical and historic Christian tradition, as well as the thousands of verses in the Bible undeniably show that the Creator, the Lord God is male.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'm sorry that you think it is disappointing to hear. However, the biblical and historic Christian tradition, as well as the thousands of verses in the Bible undeniably show that the Creator, the Lord God is male.

The fact that you can say that with a straight face, when I have provided ample evidence to the contrary, demonstrates that at no point in this conversation did you care one iota what Christianity teaches.

You have been interested solely in pushing a political narrative.

Christianity stands against you, and you don't care.
 
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Vambram

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The fact that you can say that with a straight face, when I have provided ample evidence to the contrary, demonstrates that at no point in this conversation did you care one iota what Christianity teaches.

You have been interested solely in pushing a political narrative.

Christianity stands against you, and you don't care.
The fact that you think that you are correct proves to me, that you don't care what the Bible says about this subject. Christianity does NOT stand against me.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The fact that you think that you are correct proves to me, that you don't care what the Bible says about this subject. Christianity does NOT stand against me.

I've quoted the Bible.

Your sole argument is "The Bible uses masculine language"

You don't seem to care about good theology. You seem to care about political posturing.
 
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Vambram

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This is not about political posturing. It is the fact that God Himself refers to Himself as HE, not as It, or She. The Creator is God the Father. You don't seen to care about what the Bible says.
 
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