The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

Everybody on these forums knows how things work in the scriptures, first we have Jesus Christ witnessed in the law and the prophets, who fulfils all things, that is why He is prophesised in the old testament, because all that was going on with the Judaic law, and the world was chaos.

Now this thread is about the ten commandments, and right now we can focus on what it meant to keep the first covenant, of those ten commandments, and of the transgression of that law that God gave to Israel.

In the prophets here in Isaiah 53, we have details of the Messiah pouring out ( like water) HIs soul unto death, and we hear also this is Him bearing the sin of many, and it is the Messiah who made intercession for the transgressors.

So right away go to Hebrews 9, and we see the message continuing, that by means of death ( of the Lord Jesus Christ.) those which are called might receive the promise, ( Jesus Christ confirmed the promises made unto the fathers/we are saved by that hope ministered to us for the truth of God. Romans 15:8) of eternal inheritance. For that reason Jesus Christ is the mediator of the new testament, for redemption of those transgressions that were under the first testament, ( the old testament.)

Jesus Christ offering Himself without spot to God ( as Isaiah 53 prophesised first) to purge ( by that sacrifice) our CONSCIENCE FROM DEAD WORKS ( of the dead law) to serve the LIVING God. ( See Acts 2:33-36/17:31, how Jesus Christ received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost/received gifts for men when He ascended on high Psalm 68:18, which lets the house of Israel know assuredly that God made the same Jesus who they crucified, both Lord and Christ, appointing a day which He will judge the world by that man whom He ordained, which gives assurance to all men that He has risen Him from the dead/it is witnessed that He lives, He ever lives to make intercession for us, He is He that lives and was dead, and behold He is alive for evermore, and has the keys of death and hell. Hebrews 7:8/25. Revelation 1:18.




Psalm 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.




Continuing the order of how things are explained to all in the world by these scriptures. The redemption the world has been made aware of is in Christ Jesus. Set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, declaring His righteousness to those which believe in Jesus. ( which justifies them) By the law of faith, not of works, and concluding that a man is justified by faith, and faith is without the works of the law.

All things from there work good to those who love Go and are called, ( to these promises of faith) predestined to be made in the image of HIs Son, to be called, justified and glorified, God delivered HIs own Son to FREELY give us all things, nobody can lay chage to Gods elect, it is God which JUSTIFIES, who can CONDEMN when it is Christ that died and is risen again, at the right hand of God who makes INTERCESSION for us ? We are conquerors through Him that LOVED US.




Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.




Keeping going in the order of events. We have known by all we are testified ( to those who believe in the promises fulfilled in Christ) a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, ( to those who have believed in Jesus Christ.) to be JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST. ( NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO FLESH IS JUSTIFIED.)

As we seek to be justified by Christ, we cannot be found to be sinners, Christ is NOT THE MINISTER OF SIN, if we have to rebuild again what we destroy, this is being a TRANSGRESSOR.

But we are DEAD TO THE LAW, through the LAW, and so we can LIVE UNTO GOD. The life we now live in the flesh we live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved us and GAVE HIMSELF FOR US. ( IF RIGHTEOUSNESS CAME BY THE LAW THEN CHRIST IS DEAD IN VAIN/the GRACE of God did NOT COME BY THE LAW.)



Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Continued...


Christ our High priest lives for ever can always make INTERCESSION for us, ( intercession for the transgressors/Isaiah 53.) and that High priest became us to be holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners. The law has men who have infirmities, but the word of the oath ( the promises of God/that He will be a priest forever after the order of Melchizedec/who met with Abraham.) makes the Son consecrated, for evermore. a High priest forever after the order of Melchizedec.)



Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.




How does the LAW OF LIBERTY work ? It cant be as those in the first covenant/law understand it, because it cant be at all without belief in the promises of God, which are NOT THE LAW, but told in the law and the prophets. Then we see through faith it is by belief in the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, which will be our way to be saved. ( MERCY REJOICES AGANST JUDGEMENT.)

Now here is a UNIQUE testimony for this thread. Peter standing next to JAMES, tells how we are saved with our hearts purified by faith, and to not tempt God by works/laws which the house of Israel was UNABLE TO BEAR. But to BELIEVE that THROUGH THE GRACE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WE SHALL BE SAVED. ( Jew and Gentile.)

JAMES answers next, of Simon Peters same testimony, and of the Gentiles and the residue of men might seek after the Lord and all the Gentiles upon whom HIS NAME IS CALLED, says the Lord, to not trouble those who among the Gentiles are turned to God, ( as this was law following Jews troubling the Gentiles) but generally reminding them to keep from idols, fornication and from blood. (NO LAWS EVIDENT.)




Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: FROM WHICH IF YE KEEP YOURSELVES, YE SHALL DO WELL. Fare ye well.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.




We have that advocate, we keep His commandments if we know Him, not keep HIs commandments to know Him, that is the difference between faith and those who TEACH LAW. ( they do not teach faith by the hearing of it, they teach law by hearing no faith.)

We are to walk as Christ walked. ( we WALK BY FAITH, not by sight/sight is the law, the ten commandments seen on tables of stone.) The commandment from the beginning was to love our brother, it is new because now the true light is shining. 9 John 1:9.)




2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.




If we believe in the light ( faith in Christ who is that light come into the world) we love our brother as we abide in the light, we do not stumble from loving our brother being in the light, those who hate their brother, ( not of faith/IN THE LAW.) are in darkness, ( Christ has not shined in their hearts to give the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ to them under the vail/darkness of the law. 1 Corinthians 4:6.) John writes to us because our sins are forgiven for HIs names sake. ( He writes to us for FAITH, NOT LAW.)



2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.




This is the love of God manifested, by SENDING HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON INTO THE WORLD, for us to live through Him, God sent His Son to be PROITIATION for our sins. This is our calling to love one another, ( HOW IS IT THE LAW/TEXHERS OF THE LAW, CALLING US ? )we also know through faith this is us dwelling in God and God dwelling in us, the Spirit given through faith in Christ, testifying that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world, for us to confess that Jesus is the Son of God for God to dwell in us and we to dwell in Him, we knowing and believing the love God has towards us, ( the love of God MANIFESTED) that God is love and if we dwell in love we dwell in Gd and God dwells in us. This is the boldness we have in the day of judgement/believing Christ is in the world with us. ( no boldness will come through the law and those who follow it. )



1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

ARBITER01 said:

Just as a general comment in this ridiculous thread, even though it has been repeated for years on end here,...


- We have a new covenant, not a re-newed one.

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What is the New Covenant established on? All new laws? Can you please point where it says this?

According to what I can find in Scripture the New Covenant is established (the basis) on better promises

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

What else does the New Covenant have?

Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Who determines what are God's laws- God or us?

God said the first covenant His Ten Commandments are His laws

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

According to clear Scripture the New Covenant is established on better promises and still has God's laws now written on a better surface, from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. Why we see all Ten Commandments being kept all throughout the NC because they never disappeared as many teach because its still sin to break them 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:11

2 Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

I don't know why so many spend their time focusing on what the NC is not about instead on focusing what God said it is about- better promises. Is it a better promise to worship other gods? Or is it the better promise of how God will help us keep His commandments through our love and faith (John14:15-18) so we don't sin and fall in apostasy like those who came before us. Do we really think God loves us more than those before us Rom2:11 that the result is going to be different when we are told plainly its not? Heb 4:11 1 John2:4 Mat7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 Heb 10:26-30

Like Joshua if only worshipping God seems evil to us, which is the first commandment in the Ten that Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy (like the other nine) we all must make choices. . .

Joh 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [b]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

ARBITER01 said:

- We are children of Abraham, not children of Moses.

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Yes, Abraham also kept God's commandments Gen 26:5 as did Moses as does everyone who loves God and abides in Him. Exo20:6 John14:15 Rev 14:12 John 15:10 1 John 3:24 Rev 22:14 etc

ARBITER01 said:

- Jesus fulfilled all of the law, not part of it. It is finished/completed.

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Lets again actually look at the Scripture

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does fulfill mean the same thing as destroy? To end- of course not. When one fulfills a wedding covenant does that mean they can commit adultery? Sadly this is what people are teaching to commit adultery with God. Jesus filled- full the Law just as He promised to do

Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

What are we supposed to do with God's law- same as Jesus John15:10 1 John2:6

Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What does walking in the flesh mean? Those laying aside the commandments of God Mark7:7-8

Rom 8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So lets not twist what Jesus said plainly and make ourselves an enemy to Him.

Those who receive His Spirit is not disobeying God's laws John 15:14-18 Acts 5:32. If one would use common sense- is Jesus teaching because He fulfilled the law that means we can worship other gods, or vain His holy name, or steal from our neighbor and murder them breaking the least of these commandments the opposite of what He said in the same passage? Mat5:19-30 that makes us an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 and outside God's Kingdom Rev22:15

ARBITER01 said:

- We obey Jesus and "His" commandments, not Moses and the law.

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Please find Moses in one of these verses. This is God of the Universe speaking and His own personal written Testimony- Moses is not God. Jesus said He did not come to destroy but to magnify

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

ARBITER01 said:

Sometimes things are just too simple for people to understand and they hold onto personal beliefs instead of seeking the truth from GOD (even though the truth is staring them right in the face).

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This we can agree on.

Truth according to Scripture

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151
His Word is Truth John 17:17

His Truth sets us free John 8:32

But sadly many have turned from the Truth as we are told

2 Tim 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables

What are better promises ?


Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.



Follow the pattern of promise, Israel had a king who they chose, Saul. ( rejecting the Lord from reigning over them.)



1 Samuel 8:7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.



Keep watch and see what happened when God had removed king Saul, God raised up unto Israel to be their king, and gave testimony that David was found after Gods own heart, which shall fulfil all of the Lords will. That will is of the seed of David according to the Lords promise, He raised unto Israel a Saviour Jesus.

This was preached to Israel, see now the testimonies in Acts, the glad tidings declared to them, ( who will kil Stephen anyway) how the promise ( established upon better promises) God has fulfilled the same unto the children of the fathers, in raising up Jesus again, as written God declaring, that This is His Son, this day ( of resurrection) He has begotten Him. David was given the promises of sure mercies, and to not suffer His holy one to see corruption. David saw corruption, He whom God raised again saw no corruption. Be it known ( believed) to them, that through Christ is preached the forgiveness of sins, and by Him all that believe are justified from all things, which they could not be justified by the law of Moses. ( THESE ARE THE BETTER PROMISES.)



Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.



That promise that Abraham should be heir of the word, and his seed, was not through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Jesus Christ as a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers.



Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the TRUTH of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:



All that was testified to Israel for faith, are the better promises preached, no need to dream up what they may be, they are told, so anyone hearing them and believing in them would be established in the present TRUTH. ( 2 Peter 1:12.)

Here are those promises of life again, David being a prophet and knowing that GOD HAD SWOWN WITH AN OATH TO HIM, that according to the flesh of the fruit of his loins, He would raise up Christ to SIT ON HIS THRONE. ( David spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that the soul of David would not be left in hell, as David saw this before.

Jesus being by the right hand of God exalted, received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, and shed forth that on the people who saw and heard. David saw the Lord speak unto the Lord, ( there is one Lord. Ephesians 4:5.)to sit on HIs right hand, until His enemies are made to be HIs footstool. ( When all is subdued unto Him, then the Son Himself shall be subject unto the Father which out all things under Him, that GOd may be all in all/ no longer only at His right hand. 1 Corinthians 15:28.) This testimony of faith let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that GOd had made the same Jesus, who they crucified, both LORD AND CHRIST.


1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this,which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.





What are those better promises established ? The present truth, Sitting upon the throne of David, and his kingdom, to establish it with judgement, and with JUSTICE, for ever.

In mercy ( GRACE.) the throne is established, He sits upon it in TRUTH, in the tabernacle of David, judging and hasting RIGHTEOUSNES.

In RIGHTEOUSNESS they ( heavenly Jerusalem) shall be established, terror cant come nar. ( as it is NEW and from above.)

But what was the fault of the previous promises ?

It was how Israel was established, or went about to establish, being IGNORANT OF GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS, and going about to ESTABLISH their own righteousness, had not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. ( FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES.

That is exactly wat better promises established are, seeing the one that Israel tried to establish and now the better one stablished replacing it entirely. ( THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS OF THE LORD/ Isaiah 54:17.)



2 Peter 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.




So that establishes the better promises and then the better law, which one ? ( of works and people trying to be a law teacher WHO DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING ON THIS LAW AND SABBATH FORUM?)

Of faith, and faith does not do the deeds of the law, but as it is established on better promises, it does BETTER.


Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Good comedy, are better promises all that the scriptures say they are, which we just saw all those scriptures, or all of that totally ignored and someone say they are what he decides they are now ?


No wonder the time came they turn to fables and those teachers ( of the law who don't know what they teach or affirm.) and away from the truth.

Again, we are tracking/tracing, what a better covenant established upon better promises is. ( Hebrews 8:6.)

Lets begin at the beginning of the epistle to the Hebrews this time. God had spoken in the time past to the fathers by the prophets, and as it was the last days spoke unto the children of the fathers by His Son, ( the Lord Jesus Christ.) and has appointed Him heir of all things. ( God made the worlds also by HIs Son.) Both the brightness of HIs glory and the complete image of HIs person, He BY HIMSELF purged our sins, and sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

(Here at Hebrews 1:4, begins the unfolding of what the better covenant established upon better promises is.)

The Son of God made to be so much BETTER than the angels, ( by inheritance had obtained a name more EXCELLENT than them.)

Begotten from the dead, to be both Lord and Christ. ( To know ASSUREDLY. Acts 2:36.)




Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the FIRSTBEGOTTEN INTO THE WORLD, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, THY THRONE O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: a SCEPTRE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS is the SCEPTRE OF THY KINGDOM.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath ANOINTED thee with the oil of gladness ABOVE THY FELLOWS.
10 And, THOU, LORD, in THE BEGINNING hast laid the foundation of the earth; and THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKSS OF THINE HANDS:
11 THEY SHALL PERISH; but THOU REMAINEST; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And AS A VESTURE SHALT THOU FOLD THEM UP, and THEY SHALL BE CHANGED but THOU ART THE SAME, and THY YEARS SHALL NOT FAIL.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Genesis49:10 The SCEPTRE shall not depart from JUDAH, nor a LAWGIVER from between his feet, until SHILOH come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
11 Binding his FOAL unto the vine, and his ASS'S COLT unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.



Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, BUT HE THAT WAS CALLED OF GOD, as was Aaron.
5 So also CHRIST GLORIFIED NOT HIMSELF TO BE MADE AN HIGH PRIEST; but HE THAT SAID UNTO HIM, THOU ART MY SON, TO DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE.
6 As he saith also in another place, THOU ART A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC.
7 WHO IN THE DAYS OF HIS FLESH, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears UNTO HIM THAT WAS ABLE TO SAVE HIM FROM DEATH, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 CALLED OF GOD AN HIGH PRIEST AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC.




Melchisedec King of Salem ( Shiloh/peace.) brought forth bread and wine to Abram, ( Abraham blessed of the Most High God, POSSESSOR of heaven and earth.) Our High priest also blesses the Most High God, who delivered Abrams enemies into his hand. Abraham gave tithes of all to our High priest Melchisedec.)

( His foal and ass's colt are bound unto the vine, the choice vine, He was Is garments in wine and HIs clothes in the blood of grapes.)

( Jesus took break and broke it, and gave to us to eat, broken for us, and took the cup which we drink from, HIs blood of the NEW TESTAMENT, shed for many for the REMISSION OF SINS. (for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament. Hebrews 9:15.)




Genesis 44:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



The KING OF PEACE, WITHOUT DESCENT, NO BEGINING NO ENDING, MADE LIKE UNTO THE SON OF GOD, ABIDES A RRIEST CONTINUALLY. ( for ever.)




Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, WITHOUT DESCENT, having NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, NOR END OF LIFE; but MADE LIKE NTO THE SON OF GOD; ABIDETH A PRIEST CONTINUALLY.




How great is Melchisedec who Abraham payed tithes to ?

Those of the priesthood of Levi, have the commandment (of God) to take tithes of the people of Israel. ( receiving tithes from Abraham and blessing Abraham also BLESSED ABRAHAM WHEN HE HAD BEEN GIVEN THE PROMISES.) from their brothers according to the law.

But the ONE who has no DESCENT, is not counted from them,

Men that die ( in the priesthood of Levi under the law.) receive tithes, but the one who received tithes of Abraham, has it witnessed HE LIVES. ( this is ALL explanation of the better promises, which were ALSO BLESSED, and established the better covenant, in better everlasting living blood and life everlasting to all, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for us. Hebrews 7:25.)




Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose DEESCENT is NOT COUNTED FROM THEM received tithes of Abraham, AND BLESSED HIM THAT HAD THE PROMISES.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And HERE MEN THAT DIE RECEIVE TITHES; but THERE HE RECEIVETH THEM, of WHOM IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVETH.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

CONTINUED:



The Levitical priesthood was imperfect, UNDER IT THE PEOPLE RECEIVED THE LAW, but there was further need that ANOTHER PRIEST SHOULD RISE, AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC. The priesthood being changed there is of NECESSITY a CHANGE ALSO OF THE LAW.

We are speaking of our Lord Jesus Christ, the High priest of our profession, Melchisedec, for ever after His own order. Jesus is from another tribe than the law tribe of Levi . ( Judah. Revelation 5:5.) No man attended at the alter/the law for the tribe of Judah before.

We have it EVIDENT that our Lord rose from the tribe of Judah, and Moses spoke nothing in his writings about priesthood for Judah. ( NOTHING CONCLUDED IN THE LAW OF MOSES HAD ANYTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE PRIESTHOOD AAND LAW THAT WOULD BE OF JUDAH, SO IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY NEW AND HOLD NOTHING OF WHAT THE LAW OF MOSES HAD, HAD.)

Far more EVIDENT, after the similitude of Melchisedec there arises ANOTHER PRIEST. ( NOT AFTER THE LAW OF CARNAL COMMANDMENT, now after the POWER OF AN ENDLESS LIFE.) Testified, THOU ART A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC.)

The commandment before was disannulled, 9 OF THE LAW WHICH MADE NOTHING PERFECT, BUT THE BRINGING IN OF A BETTER HOPE DID/THIS IS THE BETTER COVENANT ESTABLISHED UPON BETTER PROMISES.)




Hebrews7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the WEAKNSS AND UNPROFITABLENESS thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.





Here again is the BETTER PROMISES ESTABLISING THE BETTER COVENANT, as the first covenant was those priests were MADE WITHOUT AN OATH, ( PROMISE.) but this PRIESTHOOD was with AN OATH, ( PROMISES.)

SO MUCH WAS JESUS MADE OF A SURETY OF A BETTER TESTAMENT. (BETTER TESTAMENT, BY AN OATH FOR EVER/BETTER PROMISES/ FOR EVER.)



Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (FOR THOSE PRIESTS WERE MADE WITHOUT AN OATH; but THIS WITH AN OATH by him that said unto him, THE LORD SWARE AND WILL NOT REPENT, THOU ART A PRIST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC
22 BY SO MUCH WAS JESUS MADE A SURETY OF A BETTER TESTAMENT.





Because our High priest continues for ever, only He has an unchangeable priesthood. ( THAT IS WHY THE PRIESTGHOOD NEEDED TO BE ALTOGETHER CHANGED/ ALL OF THE COVENANT/LAW DEPARTED, IT DID NOT CONTINUE BY REAASON OF DEATH.)

The High priest became us to be holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the havens. ( the law and priesthood was all together with sinners, and with sin, not holy, defiled, harmful, and not made higher than the heavens, but low to death.)

The law had high priests with infirmity, but the WORD OF THE OATH. ( the BETTER PROMISES ESTABLISHING THE BETTER COVENANT.) which was since the law, ( God declaring, Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee/ that day our High priest is for ever after the order of Melchisedec/confirming the promises made unto the fathers.) and made the Son who is CONSECRATED FOR EVERMORE.




Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. ( SINCE THE LAW.)

Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that THE PROMISE WHICH WAS MADE UNTO THE FATHERS,
33 GGOD HATH FULFILLED the same unto us their children, IN THAT HE HATH RAISED UP JESUS AGAIN; as it is also WRITTEN IN THE SECOND PSALM, THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE.




The WORSER COVENANT ESTABLISHED ON LESSER PROMSIES, served unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW of heavenly things, but now our High priest OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY.

The FIRST COVENANT WAS NOT FAULTLESS, so place was SOGHT FOR THE SECOND. ( HEAVENLY PLACE..)

Now no man shall teach his neighbour, ( about laws written in the heart.) for all shall know the Lord ( who He calls and who believes in the better promises, which are not the promises or anything of the first covenant, which was without oath and with death and with sin.)

It is now grace through FAITH, and the Lord declaring He will be merciful ( as He lives forever to make intercession for us/made like HIs brothers that He might be a merciful and FAITHFUL HIGH PRIEST to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.) to our unrighteousness ( unrighteousness is when we are/were in unbelief. John 8:24. Romans 14:23 AND ALL OF 1 JOHN 3 FOR FULL CLARIFICATION AND NOT MANIPULATION BY ONE SINGULAR VERSE..) and our ss and iniquities He remembers no more. ( when born of God and Christ is in us we are then without sin and cannot sin. 1 John 3:3-10) This i the NEW COVENANT, which MAKES THE FIRST OLD, DECAYED, WAXED OLD, VANISHED AWAY.




Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.





The surety ( promise) of a better testament/covenant ( Hebrews 7:22.) was by the oath of God that this day He had begotten Christ. ( first begotten of the day. Psalm 2:7. Acts 13:33. Hebrews 1:6. Revelation 1:5.) and the oath that the Lord swore and said wil not repent, ( the tested oath/promise. Hebrews 7:21.) that Jesus our High priest truly was without beginning of days NOR END OF LIFE, ( Hebrews 7:3.) and ABIDES a priest CONTINUALLY. ( also sworn by God to be a priest FOR EVER after the order of Melchisedec Psalm 110:4. Hebrews 5:6/10. 6:20.7:17/21)

How much MORE ( A BETTER COVENANT ESTABLISHED UPON BETER PROMISES.) than the covenant established, (with the blood of bulls and goats.) shall the blood of Christ through the ETERNAL Spirit, purge your conscience from DEAD WORKS, to serve the LIVING God. ( the first covenant is dead in works, as is every part of it, the high priests dead, the people dead, the works they did were dead works, the blood offered was not living, nor the spirit. ( the spirit is in the blood/ the blood of Christ offered without spot to God is LIVING.)

This is why our Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator of the new covenant, ( new as all is NEW, the old is passed away because all of the old was insufficient and dead, not alive.) Jesus by His own death redeemed the transgressions that were under the first testament. ( the called to receive the promise of ETERNAL INHERITENCE/believing in the ETERNAL LIFE of their Lord Jesus Christ.)

Again it is the necessity of the DEATH of the TESTATOR, to make the testament of FORCE, that as the first testament was dedicated in blood, so this testament had to be dedicated with blood. ( this is when Jesus became both Lord and Christ and our High priest for ever.)




Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

Clare73 said:

The New Covennt is in effect because of Jesus' declaration that it is so (Lk 22:20, 1 Co 11:25).

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You nullify the old covenant that the new testament refers to as basis, Jesus has basis for our trust with the prophecies of him being fulfilled. It is not the same without it. There was no argument against the new covenant, why try making an argument?

RandyPNW said:

That is false. The Old Covenant did not bring about the New Covenant. On the contrary, the Old Covenant was a restatement of the curse of Man in the garden of Eden, particularly as applied to the nation Israel.

The Law, which is the Old Covenant, stipulated that Israel could *not* enter into God's presence closely or permanently by all kinds of requirements. A fence separated the people of Israel from priestly activities. Even the priests were separated by the curtain from the Holy of Holies.

The peole were told at Sinai that they could not draw near to God, but could only hear God. Israel was forbidden from even being the People of God unless they engaged in blood sacrifice, the animals standing in for them in their Sin guilt.

So, the Law restated the curse of God's Law, which prevented Israel from approaching God and the Tree of Life. But the New Covenant, by contrast, opens the door to the Tree of Life through the sacrifice of Christ.

Why did the Law look so much like what Jesus did? It was because the Law was a temporary provision so that Israel could remain as the People of God in hope that one day, through Christ, they could finally enter into close to God and in a permanent way. The Law held out this hope, but did not provide this hope--just a temporary state of existence.

But the New Covenant fulfilled all of these shadows in the Law, rendering Israel the People of God. Christ made them the People of God forever, to dwell with Him forever, by becoming the real and final priest, temple, and sacrifice. The old is in a sense built upon the shadows of the old, but the old did *not* provide for the new--quite the contrary!

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No, you were false. And I said the new covenant had fulfillment of the shadows in the old covenant in Christ, in which there was the reality. There was much the law could not do that is done in Christ, but this applies to any people responding in faith, which Yahweh provided for to the people of Israel earlier through that system. It was all fulfilled with all that Christ is and was doing. Nothing in the old covenant was lacking such fulfillment. It then had value for there to be the new covenant.

FredVB said:

You nullify the old covenant that the new testament refers to as basis, Jesus has basis for our trust with the prophecies of him being fulfilled. It is not the same without it. There was no argument against the new covenant, why try making an argument?

Click to expand...

Do you realize that the apostolic teaching (Heb 8:13) of Christ (Lk 10:16) is that the Old Covenant is obsolete?

I was saying something else this does not answer, what I said not contrary to that, this might have been missed. The old covenant had all those shadows. Those not coming to Christ are only left with those. But now they are not in place to help anyone coming to faith. Christ is the priest, the effective sacrifice offered for actual atonement, the way to be effectively clean in the needed way to be before God, whom we are being restored to, this way. He was always the actual effective way, it is revealed in the new covenant. Who enforces penalties? The repentant redeemed are covered in Christ with his righteousness. Unredeemed will have righteous judgment coming to them. In this world there are officers of states, and believers are not enforcing penalties. This world is still fallen and not for us who are redeemed. The old covenant with its shadows are fulfilled, with all the new covenant with Jesus Christ being the fulfillment, and the shadows were part of the needed prophecy. Those things did not continue in practice. There was prophecy needed, the prophecies are credentials, and they are claimed by him rightfully.

In the new covenant, what we are to obey is to be in our hearts that we act on those things.

FredVB said:

You nullify the old covenant that the new testament refers to as basis,

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You are confused. . .

It is not me, it is the word of God in the apostolic teaching (Heb 8:13) of Christ (Lk 10:16) which declares the OC is obsolete.

FredVB said:

In the new covenant, what we are to obey is to be in our hearts that we act on those things.

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The Scriptures seems clear....

We are told to obey God's laws in the New Covenant Heb8:10 they went from tablets on stone, to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 not changing the words as God promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18 but established on better promises Heb8:6

The OC is indeed obsolete, that's why God wrote a new one and told us what is was established on Heb8:6 and what it still contains Heb8:10

Clare73 said:

You are confused. . .

It is not me, it is the word of God in the apostolic teaching (Heb 8:13) of Christ (Lk 10:16) which declares the OC is obsolete.

Click to expand...

SabbathBlessings said:

The Scriptures seems clear....

We are told to obey God's laws in the New Covenant Heb8:10 they went from tablets on stone, to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 not changing the words as God promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18 but established on better promises Heb8:6

The OC is indeed obsolete, that's why God wrote a new one and told us what is was established on Heb8:6 and what it still contains Heb8:10

Click to expand...

Hebrews 8:6-13
But now he has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which on better promises has been given as law. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. For finding fault with them, he said,
“Behold, the days are coming”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they didn’t continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them,” says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says the Lord: “I will put my laws into their mind; I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know me, from their least to their greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more.”
In that he says, “A new covenant”, he has made the first obsolete. But that which is becoming obsolete and grows aged is near to vanishing away.

Do either of you know what becomes obsolete and see why it becomes obsolete? The old covenant was full of shadows, types for what is known in the new covenant. Those things required that are shown in the old covenant have fulfillment in Christ and all that was accomplished. Christ is what the priesthood, the sacrificial system, and ritual ways to be made clean to come before God were pointing to. None of those things of the old covenant were effective, the effectiveness is only from Christ and all that was accomplished with Christ coming and doing everything for it. That is for restoring us, but not for enabling us to no longer do what God says, which would be obedience to God. Without doing what God shows to do we would only sin, as we had been doing. But that shows there was not any restoration. What commandments are for us should be lived from our hearts, this is shown as sufficient in the covenant that was promised. And it should not have been thought that God changes. God had it right, from the start.

FredVB said:

Hebrews 8:6-13
But now he has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which on better promises has been given as law. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. For finding fault with them, he said,
“Behold, the days are coming”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they didn’t continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them,” says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says the Lord: “I will put my laws into their mind; I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know me, from their least to their greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more.”
In that he says, “A new covenant”, he has made the first obsolete. But that which is becoming obsolete and grows aged is near to vanishing away.

Do either of you know what becomes obsolete and see why it becomes obsolete? The old covenant was full of shadows, types for what is known in the new covenant. Those things required that are shown in the old covenant have fulfillment in Christ and all that was accomplished. Christ is what the priesthood, the sacrificial system, and ritual ways to be made clean to come before God were pointing to. None of those things of the old covenant were effective, the effectiveness is only from Christ and all that was accomplished with Christ coming and doing everything for it. That is for restoring us, but not for enabling us to no longer do what God says, which would be obedience to God. Without doing what God shows to do we would only sin, as we had been doing. But that shows there was not any restoration. What commandments are for us should be lived from our hearts, this is shown as sufficient in the covenant that was promised. And it should not have been thought that God changes. God had it right, from the start.

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The old covenant/agreement being referred to here is the promises. It still contains the words of the Covenant because God promised not to alter those.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the [a]Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

We can also confirm this in Jeremiah when He essentially renewed this covenant- called it the everlasting covenant and said it was what He spoke to them Jer7:22-23 - not the sacrificial system Moses spoke of. God only spoke the Ten Commandments to Israel Exo20:1-17 and no more was added Deut5:22

In addition, were all the added laws because of sin- breaking God's covenant- the Ten Commandments- that contained the shadow laws that Moses wrote in a book that contained all of prescription laws for sin- animal sacrifices, earthy priesthood etc. until the Seed came- Jesus Christ.

The issue was never God's covenant

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.


The issue was the promises, they were faulty because they were not kept by the people.

This is what the OC was established on:

Exo 19:8 Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.

The people agreed to keep God's covenant, but failed before the agreement was even delivered to them.


God in His graciousness and love towards His people made a new covenant and what is the basis of this new covenant:

Heb8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

The old covenant which is obsolete was the promise of the people keeping the law of God. The New Covenant is based on the better promise of what God will do- He will write His laws in our inward parts so they become who we are - written in our minds to know and do them, written in our hearts because we love Him and want to obey Him, but not based on what we will do, but on what God will do Jer 31:33 Heb8:10 John14:15-18 we still have to cooperate with Him and not everyone does Rom8:7-8

So what was obsolete is the old promises and the new covenant is established on better promises, not laws.

God promised plainly He would not alter those- they are perfect written by God Himself converting our soul Ps19:7

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

SabbathBlessings said:

The old covenant/agreement being referred to here is the promises. It still contains the words of the Covenant because God promised not to alter those.

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The Old Covenant agreement is not based on God's promises alone, but on the entire book of 613 requirements.

Gal 3.16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

The "Law" Paul refers to here is the entire book of 613 requirements, which was introduced 430 years after God's promises made to Abraham.

Exo 24.3 When Moses came and told the people all the words and ordinances of the LORD, they all responded with one voice: “All the words that the LORD has spoken, we will do.”

What the 10 Commandments emphasized was the importance that Israel obey *one God,* who dictates what laws Israel was to follow. And they involved the entire body of Law--not just the 10 Commandments.

SabbathBlessings said:

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the [a]Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

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The 10 Commandments is referred to as God's Covenant because it is a summary of the obedience necessary to obey the entire book of 613 requirements. It is not being presented as separate and above the entire set of laws, or requirements. It is representative of the entire body of Law under Moses' system. Serving a single God, and not idols, is the main thrust of the 10 Commandments, and thus the main thrust of the entire body of Moses' Law.

SabbathBlessings said:

The issue was the promises, they were faulty because they were not kept by the people.

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What made the Law faulty, or temporary, is the fact that animal blood did not adequately cover human sin. It required *Jesus' blood* to fully atone for sin. Without this, inherited Sin keeps all men out of heaven, or only in a temporary relationship with God.

SabbathBlessings said:

This is what the OC was established on:

Exo 19:8 Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.

The people agreed to keep God's covenant, but failed before the agreement was even delivered to them.

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Israel could always "do" the words of the Law. What they could not "do" was keep the Law to the degree they could self-atone. They could not cover their own sin guilt simply by "doing" the words of Moses' Covenant.

What Jesus did was absolutely "do" the will of God without stain or spot. And he set forth, authoritatively, the means of Grace so that all who put their faith in him can "do" his righteousness without fear of separation from God. This was a different kind of "doing" that could not be spoiled by human sin and disobedience.

SabbathBlessings said:

So what was obsolete is the old promises and the new covenant is established on better promises, not laws.

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Paul said that the Promises made to Abraham were what was everlasting, and not the laws of Moses, which though given to Israel, generation after generation, could never establish those very promises. Jesus is the one who established God's eternal promises made to Abraham, thereby making the Law, which is the source of condemnation, no longer the basis of Israel's righteousness.

Jesus' word was established as supreme over Moses' system when the 3 Disciples saw Jesus transfigured before them all, including Moses and Elijah. Jesus' word is the means of fulfillment--not Moses' Law.

RandyPNW said:

The Old Covenant agreement is not based on God's promises alone, but on the entire book of 613 requirements.

Gal 3.16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

The "Law" Paul refers to here is the entire book of 613 requirements, which was introduced 430 years after God's promises made to Abraham.

Exo 24.3 When Moses came and told the people all the words and ordinances of the LORD, they all responded with one voice: “All the words that the LORD has spoken, we will do.”

What the 10 Commandments emphasized was the importance that Israel obey *one God,* who dictates what laws Israel was to follow. And they involved the entire body of Law--not just the 10 Commandments.

The 10 Commandments is referred to as God's Covenant because it is a summary of the obedience necessary to obey the entire book of 613 requirements. It is not being presented as separate and above the entire set of laws, or requirements. It is representative of the entire body of Law under Moses' system. Serving a single God, and not idols, is the main thrust of the 10 Commandments, and thus the main thrust of the entire body of Moses' Law.

What made the Law faulty, or temporary, is the fact that animal blood did not adequately cover human sin. It required *Jesus' blood* to fully atone for sin. Without this, inherited Sin keeps all men out of heaven, or only in a temporary relationship with God.

Israel could always "do" the words of the Law. What they could not "do" was keep the Law to the degree they could self-atone. They could not cover their own sin guilt simply by "doing" the words of Moses' Covenant.

What Jesus did was absolutely "do" the will of God without stain or spot. And he set forth, authoritatively, the means of Grace so that all who put their faith in him can "do" his righteousness without fear of separation from God. This was a different kind of "doing" that could not be spoiled by human sin and disobedience.

Paul said that the Promises made to Abraham were what was everlasting, and not the laws of Moses, which though given to Israel, generation after generation, could never establish those very promises. Jesus is the one who established God's eternal promises made to Abraham, thereby making the Law, which is the source of condemnation, no longer the basis of Israel's righteousness.

Jesus' word was established as supreme over Moses' system when the 3 Disciples saw Jesus transfigured before them all, including Moses and Elijah. Jesus' word is the means of fulfillment--not Moses' Law.

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There is no such thing as a biblical number of God’s covenant of 613 so with the premise being wrong, the conclusion would be wrong. If you can quote one Scripture where God’s covenant is 613. This teaching comes from the Talmud which doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ.

Heb8:6 clearly tells us what God established His new covenant on. Sadly most want to insert what God did not. God directly said what His covenant is Deut4:13 Exo34:28 Heb8:10 Jer 31:33 and what would change Heb8:6 and what would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19, we can choose to believe Him at His Word or add to it when He did not Deut5:22.

To understand Heb8:10 we need to go back to Jeremiah on what God said when this covenant Heb8:10 was first spoken of in Jeremiah days Jer 31:33

Jer 7:22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.

What was written in the book of the law that Moses spoke to them that was besides God's covenant Deut 31:24-26- the Ten Commandments Exo34:28 Deut4:13 that God commanded directly and wrote Exo31:18

23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.

Jer7:8 “Behold, you trust in lying words that cannot profit. 9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods whom you do not know,

This is what God spoke, the Ten Commandments- the words of the Covenant Deut4:13 Exo20:1-17 and added no more Deut4:13

All Ten Commandments was repeated in Jeremiah before the New Covenant including the Sabbath

Jer 7:22 nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers


Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.

Which God is repeating what was said after the Ten Commandments was given

Exo 20: 20 And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.”

Sin is the transgression of God's Law- what He said- both orally and written. Its sad this is even debated when it came directly from God.

Those who fear God keep His commandments


Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

What we are being called back to:

Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Sadly most fear men over God and keep man's traditions over what God said.


Isa 29:13 Therefore the Lord said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,

Mat 15:3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,”[a] 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

8 “‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
9 in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

JesusFollowerForever said:

The Bible does present the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself. In Exodus 34:28, it is written:

"So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."​

​

"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone (Deuteronomy 4:13, NKJV)​

This clearly states that the Ten Commandments are the covenant. When we look at Jeremiah 31:31-33, we see God speaking of a new covenant, but notice what He says:

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.​

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."​

This passage does not say the law itself would change. Instead, it tells us that instead of being written on stone, it would be written in our hearts and minds. That means the law remains the same, but its place changes, from external tablets to internal conviction. This is why we see in the Gospels of John, Matthew, Luke and Mark, Jesus teaching the commandments and magnifying them.

Now, let's connect this with the Ark of the Covenant. In Deuteronomy 10:1-5, God commanded Moses to place the two tablets of the Ten Commandments inside the Ark:

​

"At that time the Lord said to me, ‘Hew for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to Me on the mountain, and make yourself an ark of wood... Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, just as the Lord commanded me.’"​

This shows the special place of the Ten Commandments, inside the Ark, symbolizing their central role in the covenant. But what about the rest of the law? In Deuteronomy 31:24-26, Moses wrote the book of the law and placed it beside the Ark:

"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: ‘Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you.’”​

This distinction is important. The Ten Commandments were placed inside the Ark, showing their eternal, unchanging nature as the foundation of the covenant. The rest of the law was placed beside the Ark, acting as a witness.

Now, when Jeremiah speaks of the law being written in our hearts, he is speaking of the same law—the Ten Commandments. The "new" part of the covenant is not that the law changes but that God Himself ensures it is within us, guiding us from within rather than being an external set of rules. This aligns perfectly with how Jesus upheld and fulfilled the law, always pointing back to love for God and neighbor as the foundation of obedience (Matthew 22:36-40).

So, the New Covenant is not about replacing the Ten Commandments but about making them part of who we are, just as they were placed inside the Ark.

Blessings

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If I may, may I attempt to clarify.
a Covenant is a contract and for a contract to be enforceable it must have what is called a "Consideration"

When buying a home the "Consideration" is the price of the home.

The Consideration in the Old as well as the New C--- are the Commandments found in the Torah, which we must DO!

Without the Commandments, it is not a covenant, not enforceable.

13 And he declared unto you his covenant,
which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

what must be Performed? what is required by the terms of the Covenant? ---- the Commandments

The Covenant demands we perform the Commandments

not an attorney, but my 65 years in construction required contracts and I have been involved one way or another. with 10,000

We are required by the terms of the covenant/contract to DO the 10 Commandments -- under penalty of death.

the Old C is in Lev. 26: 1 - 39,, The voice of God/Christ spoke the Commandments to Israel

SabbathBlessings said:

There is no such thing as a biblical number of God’s covenant of 613 so with the premise being wrong, the conclusion would be wrong. If you can quote one Scripture where God’s covenant is 613. This teaching comes from the Talmud which doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ.

Heb8:6 clearly tells us what God established His new covenant on. Sadly most want to insert what God did not. God directly said what His covenant is Deut4:13 Exo34:28 Heb8:10 Jer 31:33 and what would change Heb8:6 and what would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19, we can choose to believe Him at His Word or add to it when He did not Deut5:22.

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The precise number of requirements in Moses' Law is not relevant to me. I use the number strictly to identify the overall code, which is how many Jews identify the Moses Law.

It does not require a particular name for Moses' Law in order to identify what I'm speaking about. The precise number, give or take, does not make discussing it difficult or impossible.