I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

JulieB67 said:

Only because you continue to ignore verses.

Click to expand...

I'm fine with the good verses. The question with you has always been WHY you avoid the bad ones when they obviously likewise apply, if not moreso.

JulieB67 said:

I have stated many times I know we have two natures. I have not ignored that fact. You are the one that believes we are left with only one.

Click to expand...

You admit you're a sinner. You admit you're not perfect. I wouldn't say it's two natures owned solely by you however. That's just the devils hiding in the weeds of obscurity.

When will you admit that evil comes from within and defiles you? When will you admit sin is a constant state, never being even temporarily sinless? And even more, when will you admit that Satan steals Word from your heart and that your sin is in fact "of the devil?"

Do you have any of these in your repertoire?

JulieB67 said:

Why do you continue to ignore this verse's clear meaning and intent

Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Click to expand...

Where do you read that the "lust of the flesh" will be ELIMINATED in the above? Your MIND is inserting what isn't there.

We've done this drill before. Sin operates in thought, progresses to word and culminates in deed.

Do you think we are free from that path entirely?

Even Paul admitted that after salvation, he DID evil, Romans 7:19

JulieB67 said:

Because your doctrine doesn't believe this verse to be true.

Click to expand...

I don't believe in your ONE SIDED story effort to make the "lust of the flesh" eliminated simply because your mind made that up and it's not scripture.

We all work against the evil present withIN us every moment of our lives.

JulieB67 said:

You've implied that many times. Even when told this is done on a "daily" basis because we are in the flesh. You can't even answer to this verse. Which is very telling. And you accuse others of not being truthful.

Click to expand...

Well, thank you for agreeing with the obvious, that we never eliminated the 'lust of the flesh.'

JulieB67 said:

That's a lie. I don't believe anyone is going to burn forever.

Click to expand...

Eternal annhilationist then? You prefer the other evil people simply get snuffed for the same issues we deal with?

Is that your answer before our Maker?

Jeff Saunders said:

Maybe I clicked on the wrong post, did you say apokatastasis was heretical? If not I am sorry.
Can you show me what post I said that " I can proclaim all mysteries of Scripture and are qualified to judge good from evil"
If God decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, why are we told to choose this who you will serve?
The idea that God chooses those who go to heaven and who goes to hell is a Gnostic teaching. The Gnostics believed that God chose only a few and if you were chosen you were given the secret knowledge of how to get to heaven, all those God did not choose do not get a choice, kind of like the Calvinist God chooses a few to go to heaven the rest get hell.

Click to expand...

Apokatastasis is a heresy, yes I said that. The angels have already been judged, their will is fixed for good or evil. God gave us free will to choose Him or not. I am not a Calvinist, nor a Jansenist. I was questioning how someone thought my views made a verse in Acts heretical.
Gnostics may believe that there are few that are saved, but that does not mean we get to heaven by secret knowledge.
Christ Himself says only a few will be saved when He tells us, “strive to enter by the narrow gate, for broad is the way of destruction and many will try to enter in thereby, but narrow is the path, straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it.” The way to life is not secret knowledge but rather humility and obedience. Most Christians do not want to obey anyone but themselves. Studies have shown that Protestants change denominations more often then they change a brand of toothpaste. Who do we obey?
1 John 4:20 tells us that we cannot claim to love God whom we cannot see, if we cannot love our brother whom we can see. To paraphrase that, we can say, how can we claim to obey God whom we cannot see, if we do not obey our parents, both secular and church authorities over us whom we can see?

The Gospel is not hard to figure out or secret knowledge, it’s just human nature to want to pay it lip service instead of actually doing what it says

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I don't believe in your ONE SIDED story effort to make the "lust of the flesh" eliminated

Click to expand...

We are to continually try and kill the desires and lusts of the flesh. That's what Paul means by" Walking in the Spirit" And that is what a mature Christian should be doing. When we are in Christ's and repentance has set in, even when we fall short that should be our "want". Yes, that is a constant battle while in the flesh and not one has stated otherwise.

Galatians 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 5:25 "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

Going to ignore these verses as well?


You once again gloss over Paul's teaching when he states "Walk in the Spirit and you will not gratify the lust of the flesh. Meaning that's the way you fight it-by walking in the Spirit. Can you really not see that? I'm starting to think not. Paul knows it's a constant battle. But does he lay down and give up? No, he tells us what we must do. So your argument is with Paul and the Word. I'm only stating what he and it says. I'm not just making this stuff up.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

WHY you avoid the bad ones

Click to expand...

I don't avoid verses, I just take the bible as a whole as to not lose context. Something you refuse to apply. I know we have two natures but I also can see what Christ and Paul state to do to overcome that on a daily basis. It doesn't mean we don't miss the mark and fall short and sin but it does give us an option on how we get back on that path. We don't just give up and say it's pointless like you do. That's not what the Word teaches us. And that's not true repentance. It's just the opposite.

What do you say when Christ tells someone to sin no more?

And I think you are missing the point that there is a true difference between missing the mark, falling short and outright habitual/living in sin without caring. There is a difference. Although for some reason you can't see that. The Hebrew and Greek can clarify the different instances of sin.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

ternal annhilationist then? You prefer the other evil people simply get snuffed for the same issues we deal with?

Click to expand...

What I prefer is not up for debate. I'm a scripture person. I go by what's in the Word.

Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch."

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

Matthew 3:12 "Whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

II Peter 2:6 "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."



II Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

II Thessalonians 1:9 "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Revelation 2:11 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."


Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

The lake of fire is the second death. What does a fire do? It consumes to ashes. Which goes right back to the Malachi verses. That's why the entire Bible should be taken as a whole. It's not about what we prefer or want. Which is what's putting you off on a completely different path. It's about the Word and the truth of that Word.

And Satan and his are not in the book of life. So Rev 20:15 is not about them. They are not standing before the great white throne. They've already been prejudged. We are talking about everyone not written in the book of life.

All throughout the Word it's always been life or death.

But I'm sure you will continue to ignore all of these verses as well.

boughtwithaprice said:

Apokatastasis is a heresy, yes I said that. The angels have already been judged, their will is fixed for good or evil. God gave us free will to choose Him or not. I am not a Calvinist, nor a Jansenist. I was questioning how someone thought my views made a verse in Acts heretical.
Gnostics may believe that there are few that are saved, but that does not mean we get to heaven by secret knowledge.
Christ Himself says only a few will be saved when He tells us, “strive to enter by the narrow gate, for broad is the way of destruction and many will try to enter in thereby, but narrow is the path, straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it.” The way to life is not secret knowledge but rather humility and obedience. Most Christians do not want to obey anyone but themselves. Studies have shown that Protestants change denominations more often then they change a brand of toothpaste. Who do we obey?
1 John 4:20 tells us that we cannot claim to love God whom we cannot see, if we cannot love our brother whom we can see. To paraphrase that, we can say, how can we claim to obey God whom we cannot see, if we do not obey our parents, both secular and church authorities over us whom we can see?

The Gospel is not hard to figure out or secret knowledge, it’s just human nature to want to pay it lip service instead of actually doing what it says

Click to expand...

Acts 3:21 " whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the holy prophets long ago." The Greek for " time for restoring all things" is chronon (times) apokatastasis ( restoration) panton ( of all things) . This is directly from the Greek Scripture, yet you say that it is a heresy, that is why I said what I did, and asked if there were other scriptures you consider heresy.
Now for your misunderstanding of Matt 7 - Look at the context of the chapter.
Judge not lest you be judged.
Straw in brothers eye beam in yours.
Ask and it will be given you.
What father gives his kid a stone instead of bread.
Enter through the narrow gate that leads to life.
Broad is the road that leads to destruction.
You will know people by their fruit.
Do grapes grow from thorns or figs from thistles.
Not every one who saying to me Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdome of heaven.
The wise man builds his house on the rock(Jesus).
The foolish man builds his house on sand( this world, and its systems).
This whole chapter is about our time on earth and how things work while we are in the mortal body, "Enter through the narrow gate that leads to life." and the " broad road that leads to destruction" are all about our time on earth in the mortal body, Jesus loves us and cares what happens to us daily while on earth.
The narrow road is that road that men walk on now, if you walk on the narrow path, you are following Jesus and trying to be his disciple, if you do this we cross over from death to life.( John 5:24- " Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has aionions (life in Jesus) life. He does not come into judgement but has passed from death into life."), now in this mortal body. Jesus is very interested in how we live and what we do while in the mortal body, the more people we get to cross over from death to life now the better our time on earth will be.
Broad is the road to destruction and many are on it, Think about it most of the problems of this life come from people not following Jesus, rape, murder, war, greed, slavery, and any other thing that destroys human kind, this leads to destruction, we see it all around us.
So the more people who are on the path of life, the better our time on earth will be, but the more that are on the road to destruction the harder our time will be, Jesus cares about our time in the mortal body.
So no Matt 7 is not talking about heaven or hell.

David Lamb said:

OK, in that case let me re-word my question. Where in the Bible are we given the slightest hint that anybody in hell is sent back to earth to warn other people? These words from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus seem to be against such a notion:

(Luk 16:30) And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
(Luk 16:31) But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Click to expand...

Do you believe that the whole of God and everything about him is only in a book, or is it possible that God is infinite and can't be put in any box no matter how large.
I do not understand the idea that unless its in the book, interpreted by those I agree with, its not true, The Godhead is so much more than a book, its mans pride that says if I do not see it it can't be true, like we are the final say of what is true and what is false, that is for the Godhead and we are to take our lead from them.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Zero amounts of work will justify anyone.

Click to expand...

True but it verifies who we serve

Jeff Saunders said:

Do you believe that the whole of God and everything about him is only in a book

Click to expand...

That book focuses on one thread of humanity and its lineage .

Jeff Saunders said:

Acts 3:21 " whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the holy prophets long ago." The Greek for " time for restoring all things" is chronon (times) apokatastasis ( restoration) panton ( of all things) . This is directly from the Greek Scripture, yet you say that it is a heresy, that is why I said what I did, and asked if there were other scriptures you consider heresy.
Now for your misunderstanding of Matt 7 - Look at the context of the chapter.
Judge not lest you be judged.
Straw in brothers eye beam in yours.
Ask and it will be given you.
What father gives his kid a stone instead of bread.
Enter through the narrow gate that leads to life.
Broad is the road that leads to destruction.
You will know people by their fruit.
Do grapes grow from thorns or figs from thistles.
Not every one who saying to me Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdome of heaven.
The wise man builds his house on the rock(Jesus).
The foolish man builds his house on sand( this world, and its systems).
This whole chapter is about our time on earth and how things work while we are in the mortal body, "Enter through the narrow gate that leads to life." and the " broad road that leads to destruction" are all about our time on earth in the mortal body, Jesus loves us and cares what happens to us daily while on earth.
The narrow road is that road that men walk on now, if you walk on the narrow path, you are following Jesus and trying to be his disciple, if you do this we cross over from death to life.( John 5:24- " Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has aionions (life in Jesus) life. He does not come into judgement but has passed from death into life."), now in this mortal body. Jesus is very interested in how we live and what we do while in the mortal body, the more people we get to cross over from death to life now the better our time on earth will be.
Broad is the road to destruction and many are on it, Think about it most of the problems of this life come from people not following Jesus, rape, murder, war, greed, slavery, and any other thing that destroys human kind, this leads to destruction, we see it all around us.
So the more people who are on the path of life, the better our time on earth will be, but the more that are on the road to destruction the harder our time will be, Jesus cares about our time in the mortal body.
So no Matt 7 is not talking about heaven or hell.

Click to expand...

That is your interpretation which is not backed up by apostolic authority. Acts 3:21 does not declare apokatastasis as orthodox.
It is not only sin that causes us a hard time on Earth, and Christ did not come merely so we may have an easier time on Earth.
Since you are fond of Acts, do you consider Acts 14 to be heresy?


21 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith: and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.


Or John 15 when it says of the world hates you, it has hate me also. A servant is not greater than his master. They hated me, they will hate you almo.

Your logic regarding Matthew 7 fails, it absolutely speaks of enter the kingdom of God in heaven. The devil will not be restored; there is everlasting fire reserved for him.

Matthew 25:41

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels

timothyu said:

True but it verifies who we serve

Click to expand...

Pretty sure the evil within no one serves God, but resists, no exceptions

JulieB67 said:

We are to continually try and kill the desires and lusts of the flesh.

Click to expand...

We've done this enough. Come back when you get the picture and maybe we'll see better.

In the "mean"time try to reconnoiter the fact that the lusts of the flesh are and remain active all the days of our lives and resist the Spirit. IF you manage to get that far. The resistance to the fact is real and tangible, leading people to falsely think "they're all that" in God when that is never the case.

The child of God whom all people are is blessed

The children of the devil whom we ALL bear in the flesh are not

This is how scripture divides everyone

One saved
one lost

BelieveItOarKnot said:

In the "mean"time try to reconnoiter the fact that the lusts of the flesh are and remain active all the days of our lives and resist the Spirit.​

Click to expand...

Of course it's a battle daily and sometimes we fail but it doesn't make these verses untrue. Because that's what you seem to be implying over and over.

Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

Galatians 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 5:25 "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

Come back when you get the picture

Click to expand...

Are you telling me to believe you over scripture? You cherry pick and post a few verses here and there and anyone can do that and produce a doctrine. You conveniently leave out verses before and after those verses which therefore loses the context from which it is written.

By your beliefs you are trying to refute the scriptures I have posted. You can't even admit they're true. Because again, once you do, your doctrine falls apart.
You state you have no problem with them so why continually refute them? This should first and foremost be a biblical discussion and that is who your argument is with -scripture.