Israel is out of control.

Aussie52 said:

So that justifies killing thousands of children in Gaza?

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One thing I have been taught, not that I wanted to learn, over the last 8 decades, human nature has no limits.
and the part of the world one lives in is a big factor regarding limits
When Muslims are taught killing jews gets a man 70 virgins, they will do their best to do so, with great anticipation.
Collateral damage is not a factor, except when they need collateral damage.

In much of the world human life is of little value, what religion put a high value on killing, the muslims are at the top of the list.
they will set up a bomb making facility in a school or hospital, why so if it is destroyed they can claim the other side is evil.

Why do you suppose when Jesus Christ returns as KING of Kings --- He will need to rule with His "Rod of Iron"?

there is not ONE Good -- no, not one!

Any familiar with Zechariah 14??

16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Question.

are you concerned Iran has murdered 30 to 50,000 or more protestors? their own people, in the last few weeks?
the middle east was a problem even before the Exodus. They were offering their children as living sacrifices, burning them alive
and as per prophecy this is nothing compared to what is coming.

one thing to be aware of -- the folks have learned to control the narrative with sound bites. humans are now experts at lies.
use "genocide' enough and it will be in play!

Aussie52 said:

My numbers, as stated in my post, include Gaza where over 20,000 people have been killed.
Yes, I believe in the right of Israel to exist, and in peace.
I deplore the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah as stated. But also, that of Israel too.
I am not an advocate of the 'just war theory', but as a Christian I deplore violence on both sides.
There has to be a better way.

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Happy to hear that .. I regret war and violence but sometimes it's necessary to prevent greater evil.

What is that better way in your opinion? (and still taking into account the structural patterns of genocidal intentions on the Gazan/Hezbollah/Iranian/Yemenite fronts; because 'from the river to the sea' means exactly that .. )

Let's assume 20k civilians have died in Gaza (we don't know as the Gaza Health Department (=Hamas) doesn't differentiate between civilians and combatants, nor between natural/unnatural deaths). That would equal 1% of the Gazan population in terms of collateral damage - what would be acceptable figure in urban warfare to you? (and what principle/rule/calculation do you use to get to that figure?).

From Gaza over the years about 20k -30k missiles have been fired at Israel with the intention to cause maximum harm among civilians. 70% of the Gaza population supported Hamas; during their captivity the hostages in Gaza did not encounter a single person who did not support the Hamas operations on October 7th. For decades, and facilitated by UNWRA, Gazan youth have been taught to hate and kill Jews (e.g. check school textbooks, youth parades, etc.).

Israel did not threaten Gaza, they left Gaza in 2005, they had an International Airport, a port was constructed - they had the opportunity to turn it into a Dubai. About 18k Gazan labourers were employed in Israel. And still .. money/effort was directed to fight and destroy Israel.

Two Middle-Eastern proverbs are relevant in this context:
- for peace two parties are needed; for war only one
- wars are won beteen the legs of a woman

So what is that better way to permanently remove the threat from Hamas (or any replacement with similar intentions) from Gaza that would be realistically achievable with less than 1% of civilian collateral damage?

(btw I'm not claiming Israel is perfect - horrible mistakes and abhorrent behaviour (e.g. the destruction of the crucifix in Lebanon, or the deliberate placement of a Quran in a toilet in Gaza) also occur sometimes)

iluvatar5150 said:

I'm of the opinion that deliberately conflating the identity of a people with the identity of an organization of which they are a part automatically makes a person untrustworthy.

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I feel the same about those who accept "From the river to the sea."

Aussie52 said:

What is happening in both Gaza and Lebanon at the moment, is truly tragic. All those people being killed and there is no one who can stop Israel's carnage, not even Trump.
The government of Israel is definitely committing war crimes on an industrial scale.
I understand the wrongs committed by Hamas and Hezbollah, and they should be brought to justice for their crimes. But this does not give Israel carte blanche to indescribably kill innocent civilians by the thousands.
Unfortunately, so many American Evangelicals, with their dispensational view of Israel, condone what is happening, instead of being a prophetic voice calling out Israel for the killing that is going on.
To many Christians and churches are afraid to speak out for fear of being called antisemitic and Israel is capitalizing on that.

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Millions of innocent German civilians also died during WW2.
Hiroshima & Nagasaki and I can csrry on

Sadly, innocent civilians always die during the war.

Speaking of Israel, we have to understand that they live in rebellion against God and they are not better than their enemies. Except for few Jews who by grace by faith in Jesus Christ have been saved. And they commit lot of evil in this world, and we must not close our eyes to it, just because they are Israel, which many Christians fail to do. Many Christians are even looking foward to 3rd Temple in Jeruslaem, rebelling again what Christ done on the corss.
That being said, Israel does have a right to exist and defend themself.

Ivan Hlavanda said:

Millions of innocent German civilians also died during WW2.
Hiroshima & Nagasaki and I can csrry on

Sadly, innocent civilians always die during the war.

Speaking of Israel, we have to understand that they live in rebellion against God and they are not better than their enemies. Except for few Jews who by grace by faith in Jesus Christ have been saved. And they commit lot of evil in this world, and we must not close our eyes to it, just because they are Israel, which many Christians fail to do. Many Christians are even looking foward to 3rd Temple in Jeruslaem, rebelling again what Christ done on the corss.
That being said, Israel does have a right to exist and defend themself.

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God will always preserve the Jews as a people, but He has allowed the rebellious state of Israel to be overcome multiple times even in scripture and beyond. And he has allowed the nation that was the friend of Israel to fall with it.

Tuur said:

Everyone blames the Jews…

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The Israeli government =/= the Jews.

To conflate the two is antisemitic.

RDKirk said:

God will always preserve the Jews as a people, but He has allowed the rebellious state of Israel to be overcome multiple times even in scripture and beyond. And he has allowed the nation that was the friend of Israel to fall with it.

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For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.

It is not surprised Israel came back in 1948, for it was prophecised. But they do live in rebellion. Today, they remind me of Israel in times of Jeremiah. They need Christ.

In future, one third of Israel will be saved. But before that, they will tragically accept the antichrist as their savious.

ViaCrucis said:

The Israeli government =/= the Jews.

To conflate the two is antisemitic.

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Uh-huh. Sure.

Tuur said:

Uh-huh. Sure.

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Nice rebuttal.

Blaming Jewish people for what the State of Israel does is antisemitic. And if you can't differentiate between the two, then you are likewise engaging in antisemitic thinking.