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Israel is out of control.

Aussie52

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What is happening in both Gaza and Lebanon at the moment, is truly tragic. All those people being killed and there is no one who can stop Israel's carnage, not even Trump.
The government of Israel is definitely committing war crimes on an industrial scale.
I understand the wrongs committed by Hamas and Hezbollah, and they should be brought to justice for their crimes. But this does not give Israel carte blanche to indescribably kill innocent civilians by the thousands.
Unfortunately, so many American Evangelicals, with their dispensational view of Israel, condone what is happening, instead of being a prophetic voice calling out Israel for the killing that is going on.
To many Christians and churches are afraid to speak out for fear of being called antisemitic and Israel is capitalizing on that.
 

Reluctant Theologian

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What is happening in both Gaza and Lebanon at the moment, is truly tragic. All those people being killed and there is no one who can stop Israel's carnage, not even Trump.
The government of Israel is definitely committing war crimes on an industrial scale.
I understand the wrongs committed by Hamas and Hezbollah, and they should be brought to justice for their crimes. But this does not give Israel carte blanche to indescribably kill innocent civilians by the thousands.
Unfortunately, so many American Evangelicals, with their dispensational view of Israel, condone what is happening, instead of being a prophetic voice calling out Israel for the killing that is going on.
To many Christians and churches are afraid to speak out for fear of being called antisemitic and Israel is capitalizing on that.
I don't know where you get your information from? Israel killing innocent people in Lebanon by the thousands? Please provide the evidence. According to the stats I've seen just under 4000 Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon have been killed in the past year or so. And still after two years of fighting this time we still see a very different attitude at either side: Hezbollah intentionally targeting civilians (it aims to kill ALL Jews anyway), and Israel only aiming at Hezbollah fighters and trying to avoid civilian casualties ...

As has been documented elsewhere the ratio between military and civilian casualties from Israeli fire in the Gaza war has been exceptionally benign given historical standards for urban warfare.

Before any discourse makes sense I'm interested in your position on some issues:
- do you support the existence of the State of Israel as a homeland for the Jews?
- if you do, what is your plan or what do you think would be sufficient to make Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran be willing to peacefully co-exist with Israel?
- what would have been your plan to protect Israel against more then 10000 missiles from Hezbollah fired at Israeli civilians? And to make sure that can't happen again?

Collateral damage in warfare where fighters hide and store/use weapons in/from civilian infrastructure (houses, hospitals, churches, etc.) (as has happened in Gaza and Lebanon) is unavoidable. Israel warns civilians to leave areas in advance when fighting is expected - individual apartments in Beirut are targeted with precision ammunition when possible. 'tap-on-the-roof' and SMS-based warnings to vacate a building when the whole building is taken down, Israel actively tries to get civilians out of harm's way.

I don't deny innocent lives get lost in this type of warfare - but I disagree with the thesis it could have been done in another way without failing in the goal of permanently removing the threats of Hamas and Hezbollah from next door.

Have you made a estimate of how many civilian deaths would have been caused in Israel if it didn't have the Iron Dome, David's Sling, Arrow, Iron Beam, THAAD, etc. ? Only then you can make a fair comparison.

The lesson Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria learn is: hostilities will result in a price to pay in terms of land as security buffer zone.
 
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Delvianna

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I don't know where you get your information from? Israel killing innocent people in Lebanon by the thousands? Please provide the evidence. According to the stats I've seen just under 4000 Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon have been killed in the past year or so. And still after two years of fighting this time we still see a very different attitude at either side: Hezbollah intentionally targeting civilians (it aims to kill ALL Jews anyway), and Israel only aiming at Hezbollah fighters and trying to avoid civilian casualties ...

As has been documented elsewhere the ratio between military and civilian casualties from Israeli fire in the Gaza war has been exceptionally benign given historical standards for urban warfare.

Before any discourse makes sense I'm interested in your position on some issues:
- do you support the existence of the State of Israel as a homeland for the Jews?
- if you do, what is your plan or what do you think would be sufficient to make Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran be willing to peacefully co-exist with Israel?
- what would have been your plan to protect Israel against more then 10000 missiles from Hezbollah fired at Israeli civilians? And to make sure that can't happen again?

Collateral damage in warfare where fighters hide and store/use weapons in/from civilian infrastructure (houses, hospitals, churches, etc.) (as has happened in Gaza and Lebanon) is unavoidable. Israel warns civilians to leave areas in advance when fighting is expected - individual apartments in Beirut are targeted with precision ammunition when possible. 'tap-on-the-roof' and SMS-based warnings to vacate a building when the whole building is taken down, Israel actively tries to get civilians out of harm's way.

I don't deny innocent lives get lost in this type of warfare - but I disagree with the thesis it could have been done in another way without failing in the goal of permanently removing the threats of Hamas and Hezbollah from next door.

Have you made a estimate of how many civilian deaths would have been caused in Israel if it didn't have the Iron Dome, David's Sling, Arrow, Iron Beam, THAAD, etc. ? Only then you can make a fair comparison.

The lesson Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria learn is: hostilities will result in a price to pay in terms of land as security buffer zone.
Let's not forget to include their own civilians that are being killed by Hamas for an array of different issues like, being suspect in helping Israel, challenging them, and anti-hamas protests or just wanting food. link

Also, them using people as human shields.

WATCH: Terrorist groups in Gaza use children as human shields - link, example 2 link

 
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Matt5

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What is happening in both Gaza and Lebanon at the moment, is truly tragic. All those people being killed and there is no one who can stop Israel's carnage, not even Trump.
The government of Israel is definitely committing war crimes on an industrial scale.
I understand the wrongs committed by Hamas and Hezbollah, and they should be brought to justice for their crimes. But this does not give Israel carte blanche to indescribably kill innocent civilians by the thousands.
Unfortunately, so many American Evangelicals, with their dispensational view of Israel, condone what is happening, instead of being a prophetic voice calling out Israel for the killing that is going on.
To many Christians and churches are afraid to speak out for fear of being called antisemitic and Israel is capitalizing on that.

You need to cough up the sources for your claims.

The concept of "war crimes" is just an artificial construct used to hold down the West and Israel. Meanwhile, Hamas and Hezbollah go after civilians.

I asked Grok AI to comment on this post.

"The post mixes verifiable elements with strong interpretive claims, emotional language, and one-sided framing. It accurately notes the tragedy of civilian deaths and acknowledges Hamas/Hezbollah crimes, but overstates Israel's actions as unchecked "carnage" and "industrial-scale war crimes" while downplaying context like enemy tactics, Israel's stated goals, and international responses. Here's a fact-based breakdown. "

Here is the full set of comments from Grok AI:
 
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Chaplain Jim

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BiBi, during his military service.
1780510958292.jpeg
 
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JosephZ

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Uh-huh. Sure.
Governments aren’t ethnic groups, and criticizing Israel’s government isn’t the same as blaming the Jewish people.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Everyone blames the Jews…

Uh-huh. Sure.
I've long found it ironic that both the zionists and the anti-semites find value in conflating the Jewish people with the Israeli government.

The zionists like it because they can get away with (sometimes literal) murder by playing the "anti-semitism" card every time somebody dares criticize Israel.

The anti-semites like it because every time Israel does something bad, they can cry about "the joos".

I'm of the opinion that deliberately conflating the identity of a people with the identity of an organization of which they are a part automatically makes a person untrustworthy.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The Israeli government is not the same as the Jewish people.
Makes no difference to Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. To them, they're all Jews who need to be killed.
 
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Aussie52

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I don't know where you get your information from? Israel killing innocent people in Lebanon by the thousands? Please provide the evidence. According to the stats I've seen just under 4000 Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon have been killed in the past year or so. And still after two years of fighting this time we still see a very different attitude at either side: Hezbollah intentionally targeting civilians (it aims to kill ALL Jews anyway), and Israel only aiming at Hezbollah fighters and trying to avoid civilian casualties ...

As has been documented elsewhere the ratio between military and civilian casualties from Israeli fire in the Gaza war has been exceptionally benign given historical standards for urban warfare.

Before any discourse makes sense I'm interested in your position on some issues:
- do you support the existence of the State of Israel as a homeland for the Jews?
- if you do, what is your plan or what do you think would be sufficient to make Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran be willing to peacefully co-exist with Israel?
- what would have been your plan to protect Israel against more then 10000 missiles from Hezbollah fired at Israeli civilians? And to make sure that can't happen again?

Collateral damage in warfare where fighters hide and store/use weapons in/from civilian infrastructure (houses, hospitals, churches, etc.) (as has happened in Gaza and Lebanon) is unavoidable. Israel warns civilians to leave areas in advance when fighting is expected - individual apartments in Beirut are targeted with precision ammunition when possible. 'tap-on-the-roof' and SMS-based warnings to vacate a building when the whole building is taken down, Israel actively tries to get civilians out of harm's way.

I don't deny innocent lives get lost in this type of warfare - but I disagree with the thesis it could have been done in another way without failing in the goal of permanently removing the threats of Hamas and Hezbollah from next door.

Have you made a estimate of how many civilian deaths would have been caused in Israel if it didn't have the Iron Dome, David's Sling, Arrow, Iron Beam, THAAD, etc. ? Only then you can make a fair comparison.

The lesson Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria learn is: hostilities will result in a price to pay in terms of land as security buffer zone.
My numbers, as stated in my post, include Gaza where over 20,000 people have been killed.
Yes, I believe in the right of Israel to exist, and in peace.
I deplore the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah as stated. But also, that of Israel too.
I am not an advocate of the 'just war theory', but as a Christian I deplore violence on both sides.
There has to be a better way.
 
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RDKirk

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The concept of "war crimes" is just an artificial construct used to hold down the West and Israel. Meanwhile, Hamas and Hezbollah go after civilians.
The Western industrialized nations created the concept of war crime to manage wars among themselves.
 
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RDKirk

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are your aware Christ told Joshua when he went in to the Promised Land to put to death all of Gaza and he did not and they has been a problem ever since?
Sounds like you're saying Israel should do that now.
 
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Aussie52

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are your aware Christ told Joshua when he went in to the Promised Land to put to death all of Gaza and he did not and they has been a problem ever since?
So that justifies killing thousands of children in Gaza?
 
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RDKirk

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So that justifies killing thousands of children in Gaza?
To be more accurate about Jesus, the OT writers interpreted their wars with the Canaanites as being genocidal. But we already know those people were so barbarous that God nearly gave up on them...Moses had to talk God off the edge.

When God actually anthropomorphized Himself as Jesus, He gave us a more accurate concept of what obedience to Him actually is.

There was a whole New Testament created to cover that.
 
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