Imputed Righteousness. The True & The False.

Carl Emerson · Tuesday at 9:43 PM

Jan001 said:
The difference between the "saved" people and the "unsaved" is the choices they make.

Really - don't you believe in being born again unto eternal life ? I thought this was the good news and the heart of the Gospel !

Carl Emerson · Tuesday at 9:53 PM

Jan001 said:
At any time during his life, a wicked (salvation lost) person can repent of his sins and thereby be restored to God's grace. God's Holy Spirit will keep calling him to repentance until he dies. Unfortunately, many wicked people prefer the pleasures derived from their sins, and they will not repent of them before they die.

How does that relate to being 'Born Again' which John says is not a matter of human will or human choice. (you did not choose Me, I chose you) Do you believe one can be 'unbornagain'? John said such seperation from God's Love was impossible.

Jan001 · Wednesday at 10:50 AM

Carl Emerson said:
No way...

This is a specific reference to the conditions of the New Covenant for believers yet to come and fulfilled at the birth of the Church as Jesus said "He is with you and will be IN YOU..."

There are two important things to know about salvation.

The first thing is that to be saved, one must repent, believe, and be baptized while calling on the name of the Lord as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-20.

This baptism forgives his sins, gives him the Holy Spirit, and makes him Jesus' disciple. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:15-16
This initial salvation is God's gift to us. We didn't earn it or deserve it.

The second thing to know about salvation is that to inherit eternal life after his death, he must have the Holy Spirit living in his soul, which means he is sanctified and therefore righteous. Most people do not have the Holy Spirit living in their souls at the time of their death. Therefore, they will not be approved to enter eternal life.

Matthew 7:20-23
Thus you will know them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’

When a person commits a sin, such as incestuous adultery, which deserves the punishment of the second death—hellfire—he must confess and repent to be restored to righteousness with the Holy Spirit's sanctifying grace, and then he can inherit eternal life after death. 1 John 5:16-17

Excommunication was the method used by the early church to "snatch a person out of the fire" so that if he repented, his soul would be saved on Judgment Day. Jude 1:23

1 Corinthians 5:5
you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

If this incestuous adulterer does not repent before he dies, Jesus will declare to him, "I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoer."

Luke 13:23-27
Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few be saved?” He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the owner of the house has got up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then in reply he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I do not know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers!’

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Committing grievous sins is the "easy road" that leads to the second death—lake of fire.

Obeying God's commandments is the "hard road" that leads to eternal life.

Brightfame52 · Wednesday at 2:15 PM

Aussie52 said:
To be justified is to be pardoned and accepted by God because of what Christ accomplished on the cross. The righteousness that is imputed is a " right standing or acceptance with God' because our sins have been removed, that obstacle that separated us from God, is now gone, we are 'declared righteous.'. Praise God.

Yes b4 the person believes they have been declared righteous because of what Christ accomplished for them upon the Cross. Their sin were made unto Him for Him to die for them, and the exchange was the Righteousness of God secured by Christ for them was made unto them, or imputed to them 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now whoever the us and we are will be given Faith to receive the knowledge of their imputed righteousness !

Brightfame52 · Wednesday at 2:18 PM

Jan001 said:
There are two important things to know about salvation.

The first thing is that to be saved, one must repent, believe, and be baptized while calling on the name of the Lord as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-20.

Thats works salvation

Jan001 said:
This baptism forgives his sins, gives him the Holy Spirit, and makes him Jesus' disciple. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:15-16

No Jesus blood and death for a person forgives their sins. Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Jan001 · Wednesday at 5:30 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Thats works salvation

You misunderstand Jesus Christ's gospel.

On the cross, Jesus Christ reconciled humankind to God to make it possible for people to enter eternal life after their death. Adam's sin had made it impossible; Jesus' sacrificial death restored that possibility. Only Jesus Christ, a person who is both God and human, could restore the broken relationship between God and humans. We could not earn or deserve this reconciliation, which is why Jesus Christ "gifts" this grace to us when we are baptized, as he commanded in Matthew 28:18-20. Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5

Now that we have been reconciled with God, if we obey his commandments until we die, he will grant us entrance into eternal life.

A "saved" person's grievous sin separates him from God's grace once again, and unless he confesses and repents of it before he dies, he will be thrown into the lake of fire.

A person who has committed a grievous sin has spurned Jesus Christ, profaned his blood, and outraged the Spirit of grace. Ephesians 5:5-7, Colossians 3:5-6, Romans 2:7-8, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Hebrews 10:28-30
Anyone who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy “on the testimony of two or three witnesses.” 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

The royal law of Christ is the law we must obey until death to enter into eternal life:

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

James 2:8
You do well if you really fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13:9
“You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not covet”; and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but obeying the commandments of God is everything.

1 John 5:3
For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.

God did not send his son to earth to die a humiliating and excruciating, sacrificial death on the cross so that humans could sin without consequences.

If anyone believes that he will inherit eternal life without obeying Jesus Christ's commandments, he is deceiving himself.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves.

Brightfame52 · Wednesday at 8:18 PM

Jan001 said:
You misunderstand Jesus Christ's gospel.

No you do

Jan001 said:
On the cross, Jesus Christ reconciled humankind to God to make it possible for people to enter eternal life after their death.

No thats false, all whom He reconciled to God shall also be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Brightfame52 · Wednesday at 8:21 PM

Jan001 said:
Now that we have been reconciled with God, if we obey his commandments until we die, he will grant us entrance into eternal life.

Thats false, when God reconciled the elect to God,, they are ensured to be saved by His Life ! You are promoting man exalting work salvation friend.

Jan001 · Wednesday at 8:45 PM

Brightfame52 said:
No thats false, all whom He reconciled to God shall also be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"We shall be saved by his life" when we imitate his obedience to his father's commands until we die.

Philippians 2:8
he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross.

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

John 5:26-29
For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; 27 and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Carl Emerson · 2026-06-04T00:25:48-0500

Jan001 said:
There are two important things to know about salvation.

The first thing is that to be saved, one must repent, believe, and be baptized while calling on the name of the Lord as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-20.

This baptism forgives his sins, gives him the Holy Spirit, and makes him Jesus' disciple. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:15-16
This initial salvation is God's gift to us. We didn't earn it or deserve it.

The second thing to know about salvation is that to inherit eternal life after his death, he must have the Holy Spirit living in his soul, which means he is sanctified and therefore righteous. Most people do not have the Holy Spirit living in their souls at the time of their death. Therefore, they will not be approved to enter eternal life.

Matthew 7:20-23
Thus you will know them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’

When a person commits a sin, such as incestuous adultery, which deserves the punishment of the second death—hellfire—he must confess and repent to be restored to righteousness with the Holy Spirit's sanctifying grace, and then he can inherit eternal life after death. 1 John 5:16-17

Excommunication was the method used by the early church to "snatch a person out of the fire" so that if he repented, his soul would be saved on Judgment Day. Jude 1:23

1 Corinthians 5:5
you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

If this incestuous adulterer does not repent before he dies, Jesus will declare to him, "I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoer."

Luke 13:23-27
Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few be saved?” He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the owner of the house has got up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then in reply he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I do not know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers!’

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Committing grievous sins is the "easy road" that leads to the second death—lake of fire.

Obeying God's commandments is the "hard road" that leads to eternal life.

So Jesus doesn't save us from the curse of the Law?

Brightfame52 · 2026-06-04T05:50:05-0500

Jan001 said:
"We shall be saved by his life" when we imitate his obedience to his father's commands until we die.

False, you changing the text, a mark of a false teacher. Tis by His one obedience to God the many shall be made righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Back to Rom 5:10 shall be saved by His life is because they were reconciled by His death, even while disobedient enemies.

Jan001 said:
Philippians 2:8
he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross.

Yes and that one obedience of His unto death, made the elect righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here is the greek word dikaios and its properties:

righteous, observing divine laws

in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

innocent, faultless, guiltless

used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

only Christ truly

approved of or acceptable of God

All the righteous obedience and law keeping of commandments for life, have been charged to the many, God approves of all of them as fully obeying His commandments through Christs One obedience unto death in their behalf.

Jan001 · 2026-06-04T08:33:53-0500

Carl Emerson said:
So Jesus doesn't save us from the curse of the Law?

The "curse of the law" pertains to the Law of Moses.

This synopsis describes it much better than I can:

"The curse of the Law of Moses refers to the divine judgments and penalties pronounced in Deuteronomy 27–28 and Leviticus 26 for disobedience to God's commandments. These curses include disease, famine, military defeat, and exile, serving as consequences for breaking the covenant established with Israel.

Under the Mosaic Law, a person is considered under this curse if they fail to keep the entire law, as stated in Galatians 3:10: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Because no one can perfectly obey all 600+ commandments, all are technically under this curse, which ultimately results in death and separation from God.

According to Christian theology, Jesus Christ redeemed believers from this curse by becoming a curse for humanity. As explained in Galatians 3:13, Christ was "made a curse for us" through his crucifixion ("hung on a tree"), satisfying the law's penalty and freeing believers from its condemnation." (Brave AI)

Jesus Christ kept the Law of Moses with perfect obedience, and therefore, by sacrificing himself on the cross, he released believers from the curse of this law. He ended this law. Romans 10:4

By Jesus Christ's sacrificial death, he mediated his new covenant (royal law of Christ) between God and humanity. A new covenant makes the previous one obsolete. Hebrews 8:13, James 2:8

A believer in Jesus Christ obeys his commandments. If he doesn't do what Jesus Christ commands, he is an unbeliever. Romans 2:8, 1 Timothy 5:8, Luke 6:46

Brightfame52 · 2026-06-04T08:53:48-0500

Jan001 said:
The "curse of the law" pertains to the Law of Moses.

And the Moral Law. The question is, did Jesus death redeem and save them He died for from the curse of the Law ?

Jan001 · 2026-06-04T08:56:09-0500

Brightfame52 said:
False, you changing the text, a mark of a false teacher. Tis by His one obedience to God the many shall be made righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Back to Rom 5:10 shall be saved by His life is because they were reconciled by His death, even while disobedient enemies.

Yes and that one obedience of His unto death, made the elect righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here is the greek word dikaios and its properties:

righteous, observing divine laws

in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

innocent, faultless, guiltless

used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

only Christ truly

approved of or acceptable of God

All the righteous obedience and law keeping of commandments for life, have been charged to the many, God approves of all of them as fully obeying His commandments through Christs One obedience unto death in their behalf.

Jesus Christ reconciled humanity to God by his perfect sacrificial death on the cross.

His sacrifice now makes it possible for people to inherit eternal life. It does not guarantee anyone eternal life. Titus 3:7

Each person will be judged by his works to determine his worthiness for eternal life.

1 Peter 1:17
If you invoke as Father the one who judges all people impartially according to their deeds, live in reverent fear during the time of your exile.

Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne and the one who sat on it; the earth and the heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; 15 and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:40-46
0 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

fhansen · 2026-06-04T09:11:16-0500

Carl Emerson said:
So Jesus doesn't save us from the curse of the Law?

Brightfame52 said:
And the Moral Law. The question is, did Jesus death redeem and save them He died for from the curse of the Law ?

And yet, are we to believe that, by removing the curse of the law, Christians are no longer bound to obedience or righteousness so long as they believe? Doesn’t our faith give us the right Way now to achieve, by virtue of receiving new hearts and spirits, of having the law put in our minds and written on our hearts, the righteousness that the law could never achieve in us? I’m not sure that people in this thread don’t really acknowledge that same truth but in different, roundabout ways.

IOW, isn’t our faith intended to make us slaves to righteousness as opposed to slaves to sin? (Rom 6). Aren’t believers actually made righteous by Jesus’ sacrificial act of obedience as opposed to the unrighteous sinners that they actually became by Adam’s act of disobedience?

Brightfame52 · 2026-06-04T09:14:06-0500

Jan001 said:
Jesus Christ reconciled humanity to God by his perfect sacrificial death on the cross.

False only the part of humanity that shall be saved by His Life as stated b4 Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Brightfame52 · 2026-06-04T09:19:05-0500

Jan001 said:
His sacrifice now makes it possible for people to inherit eternal life. It does not guarantee anyone eternal life. Titus 3:7

Titus 3:7 says nothing of the sort

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Stop butchering the word of God

Jan001 · 2026-06-04T09:21:52-0500

Brightfame52 said:
And the Moral Law. The question is, did Jesus death redeem and save them He died for from the curse of the Law ?

Jesus Christ's sacrificial death redeemed humanity from Adam's sin and the Israelites from the curse of the Law of Moses. Romans 5:12

No person will ever be exempt from the consequences of his disobedience to God's moral law.

God's moral law:

Luke 10:25-28
Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”

Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not covet”; and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

We will reap what we sow.

Galatians 6:7-9
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow. 8 If you sow to your own flesh, you will reap corruption from the flesh; but if you sow to the Spirit, you will reap eternal life from the Spirit. 9 So let us not grow weary in doing what is right, for we will reap at harvest time, if we do not give up.

Brightfame52 · 2026-06-04T09:26:54-0500

fhansen said:
And yet, are we to believe that, by removing the curse of the law, Christians are no longer bound to obedience or righteousness so long as they believe?

After they are saved, sure obedience is rendered from the principle of Love and Gratitude for having been saved by Grace. Obedience is never rendered out of legal principles and mercenary reasons, that's unacceptable. But again this comes after salvation and imputed righteousness. The saved persons obedience isn't no part of their righteousness b4 God, only Christs righteousness imputed, which I notice you never major on, you always talking about mans obedience and righteousness, bad priotities

Brightfame52 · 2026-06-04T09:29:00-0500

fhansen said:
IOW, isn’t our faith intended to make us slaves to righteousness as opposed to slaves to sin?

Did you know a very religious person full of good deeds b4 man without Christs righteousness imputed is a slave to sin ?

Imputed Righteousness. The True & The False.

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