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Trump live updates: President expands ‘narco’ boat strikes to Pacific Ocean as 8th boat is struck

Say it aint so

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Did you protest when Obama , Biden and Clinton took out terrorists without capture or due process in US courts? How is moving fentanyl into this country which kills thousands of Americans different from flying planes into buildings? Gangs moving drugs into the US are now rightfully considered enemy combatants and are eliminated like any other terrorist. Your country is free to help in this battle by gathering them up dealing with them how ever you wish. Thankfully Trump puts the protection of American lives as a higher priority than some who want to complain about the strategy. This argument to protect gangs moving drugs into the US is not unlike the current protests against removing criminal illegals from this country. Many parents have to suffer the loss children while some protest the menus of criminals.
Fentanyl Smuggling — Most Seizures Occur At Ports of Entry Where U.S. Citizens Are The Primary Smugglers

....as juxtaposed to $4.7B later:

"Blowing Up Boats Hasn’t Slowed Cocaine Traffic to U.S., Experts Say"

One may have good intentions as Trump, Biden, Clinton, what ever president to curb drugs, but it's clear killing people on boats just by "claiming them to be X" is not working. And surely moving Border Patrol where drugs are shipped in, by Americans, to cities so they can help round up gardeners and construction framers isn't very smart. Problem with Trump and Hegeseth, and just like his picking admin via "central casting" looks. It's not about understand the problem and redressing the problem, it's about appearances and the show of it. Even if it means out and out killing people and what are really, war crimes.
 
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Vambram

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No you're not:

Section 5.4.7 of the DOD Law of War Manual says:



And this, from the manual:

“It is forbidden to refuse quarter to any enemy who has surrendered in good faith. In particular, it is forbidden either to continue to attack enemy warships and military aircraft which have clearly indicated a readiness to surrender or to fire upon the survivors of such vessels and aircraft who no longer have the means to defend themselves.”

From here: Experts explain what the law says about killing survivors of a boat strike

“Obviously, if there was a direction to take a second shot and kill people, that’s a violation of an ethical, moral or legal code. We need to get to the bottom of it,” said Sen. Thom Tillis, a North Carolina Republican.

From here: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gcii-1949/article-1/commentary/2017?activeTab=#56

'First Convention, Article 18(2). This provision is supplemented by Additional Protocol I, Article 17(1) which extends protection to the wounded, sick and shipwrecked.'

You have been and still are breaking your own rules, International law and the Geneva convention. And you knbew that from previous discussions on this matter, so why on earth you still deny it is beyond me.
No we are not. You couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. They were not surrendering. And I believe that I know why you still deny that.
 
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RDKirk

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Did you protest when Obama , Biden and Clinton took out terrorists without capture or due process in US courts? How is moving fentanyl into this country which kills thousands of Americans different from flying planes into buildings? Gangs moving drugs into the US are now rightfully considered enemy combatants and are eliminated like any other terrorist. Your country is free to help in this battle by gathering them up dealing with them how ever you wish. Thankfully Trump puts the protection of American lives as a higher priority than some who want to complain about the strategy. This argument to protect gangs moving drugs into the US is not unlike the current protests against removing criminal illegals from this country. Many parents have to suffer the loss children while some protest the menus of criminals.
You absolutely deflected from the specific two points of war crimes mentioned by @Bradskii .

Bradskii specified two specific war crimes against US law committed by this administration, recorded on video and even touted by Trump officials:

1. Declaration of "no quarter given."

2. Killing of shipwrecked belligerents.

Your response was, essentially, "Well Obama, Biden, and Clinton did some...stuff!"
 
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Bradskii

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No we are not. You couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. They were not surrendering. And I believe that I know why you still deny that.
You don't seem to be able to follow basic sentences within the manual. I even bolded the relevant part. If you attack water bound vessel and there are survivors, then you are not allowed to keep shooting at them. Even if you are at war. Which you are most definitely not. Calling these guys 'terrorists' to try to get around that is simply idiotic. Going back to my main point, you may as well declare the guy selling drugs on the street corner as a 'terrorist' and simply shoot him.

Notwithstanding that the rules apply even in a war situation. Imagine a small ship being sunk by the Iranians and they posted a video of them machine gunning your men in the water. What would your reaction be? Blazing anger? But what would you expect? The guy running the DoD has literally said that no quarter should be given. What's that? Oh, it only applies to you killing the enemy? Gee, I didn't realise...
 
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RDKirk

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You don't seem to be able to follow basic sentences within the manual. I even bolded the relevant part. If you attack water bound vessel and there are survivors, then you are not allowed to keep shooting at them. Even if you are at war. Which you are most definitely not. Calling these guys 'terrorists' to try to get around that is simply idiotic. Going back to my main point, you may as well declare the guy selling drugs on the street corner as a 'terrorist' and simply shoot him.
Just to mention, the Law of War manual does define "belligerents" in a way to convey that the law applies to the military in every situation, not just war.
 
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Bradskii

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Just to mention, the Law of War manual does define "belligerents" in a way to convey that the law applies to the military in every situation, not just war.
Want to bet that Hegseth won't be pre-emptively pardoned before Trump shuffles off? I'll take any odds that you offer.
 
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RDKirk

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Want to bet that Hegseth won't be pre-emptively pardoned before Trump shuffles off? I'll take any odds that you offer.
Eh, that can go either way. But I would bet that Hegseth expects it.

That would work in the US, but it might force Hegseth to remain in the US for the rest of his life.
 
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Postvieww

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You absolutely deflected from the specific two points of war crimes mentioned by @Bradskii .

Bradskii specified two specific war crimes against US law committed by this administration, recorded on video and even touted by Trump officials:

1. Declaration of "no quarter given."

2. Killing of shipwrecked belligerents.

Your response was, essentially, "Well Obama, Biden, and Clinton did some...stuff!"
I do not really give liberal legal analysis much credibility when it comes to Trump. He has been a target since the first time he announced his candidacy. He has proved that he is far more concerned with the well being of the people of this nation than any politician in my life time. Excuse me if I don’t jump on hate Trump band wagon especially from those outside of this country.
 
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Postvieww

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Want to bet that Hegseth won't be pre-emptively pardoned before Trump shuffles off? I'll take any odds that you offer.
If there are any pardons from this term at least it will be Trump himself giving them!
 
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Postvieww

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Problem with Trump and Hegeseth, and just like his picking admin via "central casting" looks. It's not about understand the problem and redressing the problem, it's about appearances and the show of it. Even if it means out and out killing people and what are really, war crimes.
Show me some links to articles or posts on this forum that show some outrage from liberals when Obama murdered 4 US citizens outside of this country and then I just might concede there is at least some consistency from liberals on this issue.
 
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Postvieww

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I don't have to ask you what most of MAGA thinks is right. They don't know anyway until they've checked to see what Trump thinks is right. It's quicker for me to read his umpteen 2:00am Truth social streams of consciousness. I get those at breakfast time down here so curiously enough I'll know what their positions will be on any matter even before they know themselves.
Have you considered moving your citizenship to the US so we can benefit from insightful knowledge about maga thinking?
 
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essentialsaltes

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the Trump administration has released no evidence that any of the suspected narco-trafficking boats carried drugs or that their occupants worked for drug cartels. It has never identified the people it killed – just a handful of names have been published in news reports. Family members also filed a federal lawsuit naming their relatives, whom they allege were murdered by the United States.

The military has published dozens of videos of the attacks on social media – grainy, black and white videos taken from above of boats speeding through the water before they explode into balls of flame.

Since the first strike on Sept. 2, scores of legal experts and former military lawyers have characterized the strikes as extrajudicial killings or murders. Members of the military are required by U.S. law to refuse illegal orders.

While there is no record of troops refusing to follow these orders, at least a handful of service members grappling with these questions have sought legal advice, according to anonymous hotlines for U.S. military members.

Trump officials continue to say the attacks are lawful.

Steve Woolford, a resource counselor with Quaker House and the GI Rights Hotline, said he spoke with about four service members involved in the operation who were seeking legal and ethical guidance. One discussed helping plan a strike, and two others were ordered to execute strikes, he said.

Woolford said some of these callers were connected to lawyers, but he wasn't aware of anyone who had refused an order or taken legal action. Callers are "more scared now that they'd be punished if they did bring something up," he said.

Brenner Fissell, the vice president of the National Institute for Military Justice, said the Institute's Orders Project, which also advises service members questioning if their orders are legal, receives a "steady but small number of calls," including from service members concerned that the boat strikes are illegal, he said.

Some have expressed a "sense of being asked to do things that one is deeply conflicted with the morality of doing," he said.

"There's a general perception that no one is ever going to be prosecuted for this because Trump will be able to issue pardons preemptively," he added.
 
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RDKirk

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"There's a general perception that no one is ever going to be prosecuted for this because Trump will be able to issue pardons preemptively," he added.
It may be necessary to lay low, wait until he dies or gets voted out of office and hope that he forgets to do that.
 
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