Trump live updates: President expands ‘narco’ boat strikes to Pacific Ocean as 8th boat is struck

Postvieww said:

One would think they would get the message.

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I say the same whenever I swat a fly in my house.

Bradskii said:

The message being: 'If you are suspected of dealing in drugs whilst in International waters then we won't apprehend you, charge you and allow the judicial to expedite due process and sentence you appropriately should you be found guilty...we'll just kill you'.

You must be so proud. But one question. Why aren't you doing this on the continental USA where any possible drugs are a lot closer to the those who would be using them? Why aren't you blowing up trucks and cars if you suspect the occupants are dealing drugs? What's with all this woke business of arresting people, gathering evidence and using the courts? Why is this administration so soft on dealers in the US just because they're not in a boat?

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Is your preferred alternative to allow narco terrorists cartels to smuggle poison into the USA and THEN try to stop them?

Vambram said:

Is your preferred alternative to allow narco terrorists cartels to smuggle poison into the USA and THEN try to stop them?

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As was pointed out months ago when this was new...

These boats are nowhere near the US and cannot get to the US directly.
Actual experts in drug trafficking have stated that the travel pattern for drugs on these routes is to take them to points that ultimately lead to Africa or Europe, not the US.

Vambram said:

Is your preferred alternative to allow narco terrorists cartels to smuggle poison into the USA and THEN try to stop them?

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No. Apparently what you generally do is stop suspected drug dealers where you find them. I'm sure you've read about it or even seen examples of it being done. The authorities investigate people that they suspect of breaking the law, arrest them if their suspicions appear to be correct, collect evidence and charge them. The judicial system then tries them and decides if they are guilty. You must be familiar with that. You know...courts, judges, lawyers, juries...

If they are found guilty then they are sentenced accordingly.

So why are you being so soft on these people? Why aren't you executing them as soon as you suspect them*? Why all this soft, liberal woke business of arresting people and charging them? What's all this puerile nonsense about 'evidence' and 'due process'?

*And if they survive the first attempt then just keep going until they're dead. Has Trump gone soft on crime? Seems like he's all hat and no cattle. And you voted for him?

Vambram said:

Is your preferred alternative to allow narco terrorists cartels to smuggle poison into the USA and THEN try to stop them?

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How are they getting past our impenetrable border?

Bradskii said:

You must be so proud. But one question. Why aren't you doing this on the continental USA where any possible drugs are a lot closer to the those who would be using them? Why aren't you blowing up trucks and cars if you suspect the occupants are dealing drugs? What's with all this woke business of arresting people, gathering evidence and using the courts? Why is this administration so soft on dealers in the US just because they're not in a boat?

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Do you think they wouldn’t engage in summary executions domestically if they thought they could get away with it?

Vambram said:

Is your preferred alternative...

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From here: https://www.dea.gov/es/node/9013

'According to the charging documents, law enforcement began investigating Morell-Oneill in June 2018. The investigation culminated with a traffic stop on Pleasant Valley Street in Methuen on Oct. 22, 2018, during which officers seized two kilos of fentanyl from the front passenger seat of the vehicle Morell-Oneill was driving.'

This was during Trump's first term. Another example of the administration being soft on drugs. A traffic stop? Good grief. Why wasn't this guy summarily executed? What's Trump worried about? That some liberal do gooder is going to complain?

Shamefull.

iluvatar5150 said:

Do you think they wouldn’t engage in summary executions domestically if they thought they could get away with it?

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Hah! People didn't vote for him expecting him to wimp out and bleat 'Oh, but I might not get away with it...'

The Supreme Court has practically given him carte blanche to do whatever he wants. So I think it's a lack of backbone. Someone said in a thread recently that whatever Trump does is right. So the MAGA base will support it. So what's he waiting for?

Trump goes soft on drug dealers. Whoda thought, eh?

Bradskii said:

From here: https://www.dea.gov/es/node/9013

'According to the charging documents, law enforcement began investigating Morell-Oneill in June 2018. The investigation culminated with a traffic stop on Pleasant Valley Street in Methuen on Oct. 22, 2018, during which officers seized two kilos of fentanyl from the front passenger seat of the vehicle Morell-Oneill was driving.'

This was during Trump's first term. Another example of the administration being soft on drugs. A traffic stop? Good grief. Why wasn't this guy summarily executed? What's Trump worried about? That some liberal do gooder is going to complain?

Shamefull.

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Those narco terrorists cartels drug boats are attempting to bring in hundreds of kilos of fentanly at a time. Thar fentanyl is killing thousands of Americans. You might be okay with past polices allowing that stuff into America. But I am thankful to the Lord Jesus Christ that we are stopping the massive smuggling of illegal drugs that kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Vambram said:

Those narco terrorists cartels drug boats are attempting to bring in hundreds of kilos of fentanly at a time. Thar fentanyl is killing thousands of Americans. You might be okay with past polices allowing that stuff into America. But I am thankful to the Lord Jesus Christ that we are stopping the massive smuggling of illegal drugs that kill hundreds of thousands of people.

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Does the rule of law mean nothing to you?
What about the constitution?
What about simple facts? Can you show us how these alleged drug boats are getting to the US border if they aren't killed in off the coast of South America?

Vambram said:

Those narco terrorists cartels drug boats are attempting to bring in hundreds of kilos of fentanly at a time. Thar fentanyl is killing thousands of Americans. You might be okay with past polices allowing that stuff into America. But I am thankful to the Lord Jesus Christ that we are stopping the massive smuggling of illegal drugs that kill hundreds of thousands of people.

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The guy in the link I gave had close to $30 million dollars worth of fentanyl. Enough there to kill tens of thousands of people. Didn't someone say earlier 'aren't they getting the message?' So what message do you want to send? Stop the guy for a traffic infringement and slap his wrist?

From here: Fentanyl Trafficking

'The average sentence for individuals trafficking fentanyl was 79 months.'

Hah! Six years. Is that the message you want to send? People want it to be a death sentence but now they're backing down? It's been said that whatever Trump decides is the best thing to do. You want him to kill people dealing fentanyl. You are supporting him killing them on the high seas. But gee, is it a bit too close to home for you to kill them on Main Street? Are people too concerned about due process?

Tell me...what is Trump worried about? He's the guy giving the orders. Why won't he do what you want? Is he frightened of the consequences? Is he scared to act?

Hans Blaster said:

Does the rule of law mean nothing to you?
What about the constitution?
What about simple facts? Can you show us how these alleged drug boats are getting to the US border if they aren't killed in off the coast of South America?

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We are following the rules of law and the Constitution. Are you ignoring the facts about the destinations of those drug boats?

Vambram said:

We are following the rules of law and the Constitution. Are you ignoring the facts about the destinations of those drug boats?

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No I'm not. They ain't going to make it to the US. (And even if they were it wouldn't matter.)

Vambram said:

We are following the rules of law and the Constitution.

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No you're not:

Section 5.4.7 of the DOD Law of War Manual says:

Prohibition Against Declaring That No Quarter Be Given. It is forbidden to declare that no quarter will be given. This means that it is prohibited to order that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees, such as unprivileged belligerents, will be summarily executed. Moreover, it is also prohibited to conduct hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors, or to threaten the adversary with the denial of quarter. This rule is based on both humanitarian and military considerations. This rule also applies during non-international armed conflict.

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And this, from the manual:

“It is forbidden to refuse quarter to any enemy who has surrendered in good faith. In particular, it is forbidden either to continue to attack enemy warships and military aircraft which have clearly indicated a readiness to surrender or to fire upon the survivors of such vessels and aircraft who no longer have the means to defend themselves.”

From here: Experts explain what the law says about killing survivors of a boat strike

“Obviously, if there was a direction to take a second shot and kill people, that’s a violation of an ethical, moral or legal code. We need to get to the bottom of it,” said Sen. Thom Tillis, a North Carolina Republican.

From here: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gcii-1949/article-1/commentary/2017?activeTab=#56

'First Convention, Article 18(2). This provision is supplemented by Additional Protocol I, Article 17(1) which extends protection to the wounded, sick and shipwrecked.'

You have been and still are breaking your own rules, International law and the Geneva convention. And you knbew that from previous discussions on this matter, so why on earth you still deny it is beyond me.

Bradskii said:

The message being: 'If you are suspected of dealing in drugs whilst in International waters then we won't apprehend you, charge you and allow the judiciary to expedite due process and sentence you appropriately should you be found guilty...we'll just kill you'.

You must be so proud. But one question. Why aren't you doing this on the continental USA where any possible drugs are a lot closer to the those who would be using them? Why aren't you blowing up trucks and cars if you suspect the occupants are dealing drugs? What's with all this woke business of arresting people, gathering evidence and using the courts? Why is this administration so soft on dealers in the US just because they're not in a boat?

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Did you protest when Obama , Biden and Clinton took out terrorists without capture or due process in US courts? How is moving fentanyl into this country which kills thousands of Americans different from flying planes into buildings? Gangs moving drugs into the US are now rightfully considered enemy combatants and are eliminated like any other terrorist. Your country is free to help in this battle by gathering them up dealing with them how ever you wish. Thankfully Trump puts the protection of American lives as a higher priority than some who want to complain about the strategy. This argument to protect gangs moving drugs into the US is not unlike the current protests against removing criminal illegals from this country. Many parents have to suffer the loss children while some protest the menus of criminals.

Postvieww said:

Did you protest when Obama , Biden and Clinton took out terrorists without capture or due process in US courts? How is moving fentanyl into this country which kills thousands of Americans different from flying planes into buildings? Gangs moving drugs into the US are now rightfully considered enemy combatants and are eliminated like any other terrorist.

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It would be good to actually show that the ones that get blown up are actually moving drugs into the US, how much fentanyl have been retrieved from the wreckage? There is also the fact that those who partake in drugs quite seldom are killed by anyone but themselves, the hand on the needle (or the pipe) is most often their own. This is of course deeply tragic, but there are, on the face of it, differences between terrorists and drug smugglers at least by intention.

Postvieww said:

Your country is free to help in this battle by gathering them up dealing with them how ever you wish. Thankfully Trump puts the protection of American lives as a higher priority than some who want to complain about the strategy. This argument to protect gangs moving drugs into the US is not unlike the current protests against removing criminal illegals from this country. Many parents have to suffer the loss children while some protest the menues of criminals.

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Postvieww said:

Did you protest..

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I did. And I'm sorry if I was being too subtle. I thought the topic was what Trump was doing. If you want him to take out drug dealers then can you please explain, in simple terms so that we can all understand, your position as to why you don't want all drug dealers blown up. I really don't get why some of them can be executed and others can't. It surely can't be because of International law or the Geneva convention. Or even your own government's manual of the Law of War. He's simply ignoring those. And Trump has carte blanche to do as he wishes by the SC. And his supporters say that whatever he does is right. So that means he can.

But OK...maybe you're not such a dyed-in-the-wool supporter. Maybe you think that there are some things he really shouldn't be allowed to do. Is that your position? Because at this moment I am completely confused about what you think is right and what you think is wrong. Because you seem to think that...

Postvieww said:

...Obama , Biden and Clinton took out terrorists without capture or due process in US courts.

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So you are arguing:

1. It's not OK for a president to do that (Obama , Biden and Clinton).

Yet...

2. It's is OK for a president to do that (Trump).

Can you see why I'm confused? You're arguing two things that are directly opposed to each other. What's that term? Cognitive something or other...when a person can hold two opinions that directly contradict each other. That's not you, surely.

So how about you explain yourself. How about you give us a sensible reason for your seemingly nonsensical position as opposed to most other Trump supporters who simply think that if he does something that it is therefore right.

Bradskii said:

I did. And I'm sorry if I was being too subtle. I thought the topic was what Trump was doing. If you want him to take out drug dealers then can you please explain, in simple terms so that we can all understand, your position as to why you don't want all drug dealers blown up. I really don't get why some of them can be executed and others can't. It surely can't be because of International law or the Geneva convention. Or even your own government's manual of the Law of War. He's simply ignoring those. And Trump has carte blanche to do as he wishes by the SC. And his supporters say that whatever he does is right. So that means he can.

But OK...maybe you're not such a dyed-in-the-wool supporter. Maybe you think that there are some things he really shouldn't be allowed to do. Is that your position? Because at this moment I am completely confused about what you think is right and what you think is wrong. Because you seem to think that...

So you are arguing:

1. It's not OK for a president to do that (Obama , Biden and Clinton).

Yet...

2. It's is OK for a president to do that (Trump).

Can you see why I'm confused? You're arguing two things that are directly opposed to each other. What's that term? Cognitive something or other...when a person can hold two opinions that directly contradict each other. That's not you, surely.

So how about you explain yourself. How about you give us a sensible reason for your seemingly nonsensical position as opposed to most other Trump supporters who simply think that if he does something that it is therefore right.

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I will try to make this simple for you. I believe it was right for Obama, Biden and Clinton to take out terrorist by what ever means available. I also believe the same for Trump. If you cannot see the difference between a drug dealer standing on the corner of an American street and a foreign gang or gang sponsored by a foreign government outside of our border funneling drugs in, I can’t help you there. They have been designated terrorist and enemies of the US. Yes take them out, no tax payer funded lawyers, meals and endless appeals, they are enemies of the US.

Postvieww said:

I will try to make this simple for you.

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Now you have. There is a disgraceful position that one could take whereby one considers that due process can be ignored and the president can do whatever he wants. Which can be to ignore his own DoD instructions as to what constitutes a war crime and can likewise ignore Internationally accepted rules of conduct. You are yet another who takes that position.

There is no difference between a foreign group transporting drugs in a US city and one transporting them by sea. Apart from the very obvious point that if there is evidence of the drugs in the city and likewise evidence of those at sea, the former IS OBVIOUSLY MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE LATTER. Notwithstanding that we'd actually have evidence produced of the former and there is none for the latter.

But gee, kill the guys who are suspected of smuggling at sea - and even take an extra shot if the first didn't kill them, but give those who have made it to dry land some sort of leniency. Grant them due process. But not if they're still on a boat. Is there some sort of logic that dictates this position? There must be in your mind because you are confused about the difference of a guy standing at a street corner and one in a boat as if it's somehow obvious that due process only applies in one case.

Maybe you can be a little more specific so we can see where the logic lies. If the boat makes it to a US harbour, can you still blow it up? If they're motoring up the Hudson are they fair game? If they are a mile off Laguna Beach are they safe? Quick, shoot the guy again before he gets inside the extent of US territorial waters! No, wait. He drifted just inside it. Darn it, that somehow grants him the right to be picked up, given medical aid and due process, so you'll have to produce evidence and charge him. Oh, the humanity!

Well, I think you're soft on crime. I think it's a little woke for you to worry about the rights of the guy 'on the street corner' dealing drugs. That must be the case because you're not demanding he be summarily executed. Well, you won't until Trump demands it. Then you'll think it's perfectly acceptable.

I don't have to ask you what most of MAGA thinks is right. They don't know anyway until they've checked to see what Trump thinks is right. It's quicker for me to read his umpteen 2:00am Truth social streams of consciousness. I get those at breakfast time down here so curiously enough I'll know what their positions will be on any matter even before they know themselves.

Vambram said:

Those narco terrorists cartels drug boats are attempting to bring in hundreds of kilos of fentanly at a time.

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Do you have any evidence there was fentanyl on any of these boats? As opposed to a more common South American product?

AI Overview [Google "does fentanyl come from south america"]

No, illicit fentanyl does not come from South America.
The vast majority of the illegal fentanyl supply affecting North America is produced in clandestine laboratories in Mexico by transnational criminal organizations. These cartels manufacture the finished fentanyl and press it into counterfeit pills primarily using raw precursor chemicals sourced from Asia.
While South America is a major global supplier of plant-based drugs like cocaine, there is no evidence of widespread illicit fentanyl production or trafficking there.

Vambram said:

Thar fentanyl is killing thousands of Americans.

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The United States is extrajudicially killing hundreds of low-level criminals, who could be adequately handled by the Coast Guard in a legal fashion if they ever actually got near our shores.