Women Are Choosing Ai Relationships

RocksInMyHead said:

None of those things are considered "toxic" - unless taken too far or expressed inappropriately. You'll notice that pretty clearly expressed in many of the "Turn-Ons" vs "Turn-Offs" in that article. Women say that they like a man to be physically assertive - but not overly so. Muscular, but not to the point of comedy. Confident, but not arrogant. Wants to fix things, but doesn't mansplain. Chivalrous, but not over-the-top about it. Flirtatious, but not rude or degrading.

Most of that boils down to listening to your partner (or potential partner).

Click to expand...

Perhaps you weren't considering those things toxic, but your position wasn't reflective of where the progressive consensus was on such matters.

The proof is in the pudding, statistics like the one I cited earlier (per the two links I provided:
The article found that 44 percent of single men said fear of being labeled “creepy” makes them less likely to initiate contact. This isn’t about confidence in the traditional sense. It’s about social risk. Being filmed. Being screenshotted. Becoming a punchline online for misreading a moment.

A study by Pew Research found that 65% of young men worry that approaching women in public could be seen as inappropriate


You don't get those kind of numbers from just a few fringe people steering the ship on that. If it was just a tiny handful of people at Berkeley doing it, it wouldn't be producing those kinds of stats where 2/3 of guys are literally afraid to approach a woman in public out of fear of picking up some sort of label.

Stuff like this:

...became pretty pervasive. Even saying "not all men" became a target of ire for the modern feminists because they claimed it was a "deflection" that "defends patriarchal concepts"

And it often came bundled with a tinge of condescension in the form of "bend a knee" requirements such as (per the article)
Men can support feminist discourse not only by acknowledging their privilege but also by engaging in educational opportunities that elucidate the ways in which traditional masculinity can be harmful. This could take the form of workshops, discussions, or platforms that promote awareness of gender issues and foster a culture of respect and equality.


So basically, in order to be "one of the good ones", you had to be a feminist puppet and parrot back their talking points and "educate yourself" (which is one of the most arrogant & condescending sentiments -- equating "disagreeing with my activism/causes" with of lack of being educated, "because if you were educated, then you'd agree with me and go along with what I want to do")

...the response to that is going to shake out is a lot of guys moving into one of the two buckets I described before.

A) weak willed guys who are so desperate for any sort of connection with women that they'll self-flagellate (who women end up not being attracted to or actually respecting because they're basically jellyfish)

B) bitter guys who will go on the aggressive when they get condescended to in that way amid the backdrop of feminists demanding "selective equality" that only includes the good stuff. (IE: all of those conversations about equality that tend to focus on the boardroom and the c-suite, but none of the areas for the stuff that sucks that guys still primarily have to do). If you'll notice, there weren't a lot equality discussions about representation in the field of plumbing, mandatory enrollment in selective service, who has to mow the lawn and take the trash out, who goes out in the rain to change a tire when it goes flat, etc.

RocksInMyHead said:

What you're articulating here is a consequence of the loss of "third spaces" - places where people can go for the purpose of meeting and spending time with other people. It's a major problem with society right now, and has been for a decade or so. With so much of our interaction moving online with social media, people spend a lot less time just hanging out together in person.

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I don't think we've lost "third spaces", they've just moved. The fact that interactions have moved online doesn't really impact this dynamic, as the same wide swath of things was getting the "toxic" label whether it occurred in-person or online.

If anything, we haven't lost spaces, the internet has made more spaces...probably too many. So much so that any expectation that would be unrealistic in the real world 99.9% of the time, can be fulfilled for a price.

jacks said:

Off topic: That is both funny and perhaps prophetic. I know you're in IT, but maybe writing wouldn't be a bad side gig for you.

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I dabble lol

jacks said:

Back to topic:
Maybe it isn't something to worry about. In the long term this may just be a leveling effect. The guys that don't have the nerve to approach women and the women that are turned off by anything that may be perceived as "toxic", will reproduce less and stop passing on both their genes and ideologies. There are enough people in the world anyway, perhaps this is a natural form of birth control.

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If it was just a small percentage, I'd be inclined to agree.

However, the stats I posted early suggest that it's in the ballpark of 2/3 of the young guys out there who are afraid of approaching women out of fear that they'll get labelled toxic or "creepy", and half have never even asked a woman out by age 25.

In terms of raw numbers, I don't know exactly how impactful that is in comparison to when China had the "1-child policy" and it almost plunged them into economic ruin, but it's gotta be close. Ultimately, if we want to keep our various social safety nets solvent and have future workers, we have to at least be replacing some of the people who are aging out.

ThatRobGuy said:

half have never even asked a woman out by age 25.

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Now that is an unsettling statistic. Especially given that in contrast, 74% of women aged 25 and under expressed a desire to be approached more often by men. HERE

jacks said:

Now that is an unsettling statistic. Especially given that in contrast, 74% of women aged 25 and under expressed a desire to be approached more often by men. HERE

Click to expand...

I think that's yet another area that highlights conflict between feminist theory, and what actual women want. And what will be surprising to most people, is that it's not a "bug", it's a "feature"

Arguably one of the main pioneers of modern feminist theory (and the movement in general) is Simone de Beauvoir.

She famously said:
“No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise children. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one”

Andrew Klavan sums the situation up pretty well

ThatRobGuy said:

The proof is in the pudding, statistics like the one I cited earlier (per the two links I provided:
The article found that 44 percent of single men said fear of being labeled “creepy” makes them less likely to initiate contact. This isn’t about confidence in the traditional sense. It’s about social risk. Being filmed. Being screenshotted. Becoming a punchline online for misreading a moment.

A study by Pew Research found that 65% of young men worry that approaching women in public could be seen as inappropriate


You don't get those kind of numbers from just a few fringe people steering the ship on that. If it was just a tiny handful of people at Berkeley doing it, it wouldn't be producing those kinds of stats where 2/3 of guys are literally afraid to approach a woman in public out of fear of picking up some sort of label.

Click to expand...

Perception doesn't always match up to reality. The internet has a tendency towards sensationalism, which can skew how people view the real world. Especially people who don't spend a lot of time in said real world. See: lost third spaces.

ThatRobGuy said:

And it often came bundled with a tinge of condescension in the form of "bend a knee" requirements such as (per the article)
Men can support feminist discourse not only by acknowledging their privilege but also by engaging in educational opportunities that elucidate the ways in which traditional masculinity can be harmful. This could take the form of workshops, discussions, or platforms that promote awareness of gender issues and foster a culture of respect and equality.


So basically, in order to be "one of the good ones", you had to be a feminist puppet and parrot back their talking points and "educate yourself" (which is one of the most arrogant & condescending sentiments -- equating "disagreeing with my activism/causes" with of lack of being educated, "because if you were educated, then you'd agree with me and go along with what I want to do")

Click to expand...

Case in point. This is a caricature of feminism.

ThatRobGuy said:

I don't think we've lost "third spaces", they've just moved. The fact that interactions have moved online doesn't really impact this dynamic, as the same wide swath of things was getting the "toxic" label whether it occurred in-person or online.

If anything, we haven't lost spaces, the internet has made more spaces...probably too many. So much so that any expectation that would be unrealistic in the real world 99.9% of the time, can be fulfilled for a price.

Click to expand...

If you really think that online interactions are a substitute for real life, that explains many things. You're right that third spaces have moved online, but they don't serve the same function as in-person third spaces.

ThatRobGuy said:

I think those are two separate aspects.

I don't think there's needs to necessarily be the "traditional religious nuclear family" or even official marriages.

Me and my S.O. aren't married, neither of us is religious (I'm a Baptist defector, and she defected from Hinduism)


The issue here is that young men are afraid to even approach women and talk to them, or even express interest to a third party, purely because of a sweeping overcorrection that was rooted in postmodern feminism.

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The causes are more structural and material than ideological. Decline in high pay, low skilled jobs, decline in third spaces and civic institutions (unions, churches, lodges), etc. Otherwise, men in every generation have sometimes had the same types of problems approaching women. Human relationships are never free of investment and risk.

ThatRobGuy said:

And that overcorrect, as I noted earlier, has forced a lot of a lot of young guys into 1 of 2 camps.

The overly-sensitive, metrosexual, tortured poet types who are the embodiment of "friend material, but not boyfriend material".

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I'd rather not deal in caricatures like that. Swift has dated performers and artists of various kinds - a football player is still basically a performer, one much more like Swift herself than her previous romantic interests, so there's a natural convergence in personalities perhaps. None of that requires sociobiological speculation to explain. It certainly doesn't necessarily represent an underlying ideological shift on Swift's part.

ThatRobGuy said:

Or

The "to heck with this, I'm going full Tate" -- which is a bit of tragic irony. As via the efforts to label all "normie guy stuff" as toxic, it's forced some guys into a camp that's actually toxic.

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Except "normie guy stuff" has become toxic, in too many cases.

There was a British miniseries on Netflix, Adolescence, that focused in particular on how normalized online misogyny has become among some young men. While the plot is fictionalized, it's based on a real trend that has happened - single young men that attack women violently, motivated by a sense of grievance.

After reading the way this thread has been going, I can tell why women rather talk with AI.

Nithavela said:

After reading the way this thread has been going, I can tell why women rather talk with AI.

Click to expand...

It's not that they'd rather talk to AI, it's that they're doing because it's gotten to the point where real guys won't talk to them or initiate contact.

Per the links I posted earlier:
What complicates things further is that many women say they actually want to be approached. The same report found that 77 percent of women ages 18 to 30 hoped men would do it more often, along with 68 percent of women in their 30s.

-- meanwhile, over 60% of guys are literally afraid to approach women, out of fear of being labelled "toxic" or "creepy" or "inappropriate"


That tells me that the more extreme postmodern feminists have hijacked the situation to a degree, and helped create an outcome that many other women are dissatisfied with.

FireDragon76 said:

The causes are more structural and material than ideological. Decline in high pay, low skilled jobs, decline in third spaces and civic institutions (unions, churches, lodges), etc. Otherwise, men in every generation have sometimes had the same types of problems approaching women. Human relationships are never free of investment and risk.

Click to expand...

Yes, there have always been guys who are either shy or hesitant about taking the risk of asking someone out and getting rejected.

But has it ever been to the extreme we see now? Where it's 2/3 of women wishing guys would be more bold in approaching them, and 2/3 of guys being afraid to out of fear of picking up some sort of label?

Another stat to pile on the ones I've already linked before:
Among singles, only about 31% of young adults report actively dating once a month or more, while three-quarters of women and nearly two-thirds of men have not dated at all in the past year.

ThatRobGuy said:

Perhaps you weren't considering those things toxic, but your position wasn't reflective of where the progressive consensus was on such matters.

The proof is in the pudding, statistics like the one I cited earlier (per the two links I provided:
The article found that 44 percent of single men said fear of being labeled “creepy” makes them less likely to initiate contact. This isn’t about confidence in the traditional sense. It’s about social risk. Being filmed. Being screenshotted. Becoming a punchline online for misreading a moment.

A study by Pew Research found that 65% of young men worry that approaching women in public could be seen as inappropriate

Click to expand...

I tried to find the Pew research article that commented on this, and your selection of source for the quote is real sketchy. When I went there and tried to click the link it took me nowhere, I think they missed putting the reference with anchor. So looked it up on Pew research and the closest I could find was this Nearly Half of U.S. Adults Say Dating Has Gotten Harder for Most People in the Last 10 Years



That is not the question your article highlights, it says nothing about the percentage worrying, it is not only men that make up the 65% the question was asked regardless of sex. It is perfectly possible to find something becoming harder without worrying about it.

It is not related to age either:



So those men who have it easiest seems to be young and democrat/lean democrat.

"Young singles on the dating market – those ages 18 to 29 – are more likely than their older counterparts to say they would take the direct approach by proactively contacting the person. About half in this age group (49%) say this, compared with 37% of daters ages 30 to 49 and 34% of those 50 and older."


If you know which Pew research finding they meant, if it is this or something else, could you point it out directly?

ThatRobGuy said:

You don't get those kind of numbers from just a few fringe people steering the ship on that. If it was just a tiny handful of people at Berkeley doing it, it wouldn't be producing those kinds of stats where 2/3 of guys are literally afraid to approach a woman in public out of fear of picking up some sort of label.

Click to expand...

If the numbers are presented out of context and misrepresented it is really hard to draw any hard conclusions. The article I found showed that

ThatRobGuy said:

Stuff like this:

The Critique of ‘Not All Men’: Why Feminists Push Back

"Not all men": is it a valid point, or a calculated derailment of crucial conversations? We dissect the feminist critique, the power dynamics, and the real-world implications of this phrase.

thefeminismproject.com

...became pretty pervasive. Even saying "not all men" became a target of ire for the modern feminists because they claimed it was a "deflection" that "defends patriarchal concepts"

And it often came bundled with a tinge of condescension in the form of "bend a knee" requirements such as (per the article)
Men can support feminist discourse not only by acknowledging their privilege but also by engaging in educational opportunities that elucidate the ways in which traditional masculinity can be harmful. This could take the form of workshops, discussions, or platforms that promote awareness of gender issues and foster a culture of respect and equality.


So basically, in order to be "one of the good ones", you had to be a feminist puppet and parrot back their talking points and "educate yourself" (which is one of the most arrogant & condescending sentiments -- equating "disagreeing with my activism/causes" with of lack of being educated, "because if you were educated, then you'd agree with me and go along with what I want to do")

...the response to that is going to shake out is a lot of guys moving into one of the two buckets I described before.

A) weak willed guys who are so desperate for any sort of connection with women that they'll self-flagellate (who women end up not being attracted to or actually respecting because they're basically jellyfish)

B) bitter guys who will go on the aggressive when they get condescended to in that way amid the backdrop of feminists demanding "selective equality" that only includes the good stuff. (IE: all of those conversations about equality that tend to focus on the boardroom and the c-suite, but none of the areas for the stuff that sucks that guys still primarily have to do). If you'll notice, there weren't a lot equality discussions about representation in the field of plumbing, mandatory enrollment in selective service, who has to mow the lawn and take the trash out, who goes out in the rain to change a tire when it goes flat, etc.




I don't think we've lost "third spaces", they've just moved. The fact that interactions have moved online doesn't really impact this dynamic, as the same wide swath of things was getting the "toxic" label whether it occurred in-person or online.

If anything, we haven't lost spaces, the internet has made more spaces...probably too many. So much so that any expectation that would be unrealistic in the real world 99.9% of the time, can be fulfilled for a price.

Click to expand...

RocksInMyHead said:

Perception doesn't always match up to reality. The internet has a tendency towards sensationalism, which can skew how people view the real world. Especially people who don't spend a lot of time in said real world. See: lost third spaces.

Click to expand...

...for the young guys who've recently been in campus environments or workplaces that have gotten on-board with some of it, their experiences and the way their perceptions are being shaped likely have some real world sources and not just merely internet interactions.

RocksInMyHead said:

Case in point. This is a caricature of feminism.

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That was from the article from TheFeminismProject website... So are you suggesting that modern Feminism movements have become a caricature of feminism.

My paraphrasing summary removed the flowery language and expressed what the article was suggesting in practical terms.

This is what their website said:
Men can support feminist discourse not only by acknowledging their privilege but also by engaging in educational opportunities that elucidate the ways in which traditional masculinity can be harmful. This could take the form of workshops, discussions, or platforms that promote awareness of gender issues and foster a culture of respect and equality.

RocksInMyHead said:

If you really think that online interactions are a substitute for real life, that explains many things. You're right that third spaces have moved online, but they don't serve the same function as in-person third spaces.

Click to expand...

I don't think they're perfect 1-for-1 replacements. I was suggesting that any of the things that would get someone the label of "toxic" in a real world interaction would pick up the same label if occurring in an online interaction.

Stopped_lurking said:

I tried to find the Pew research article that commented on this, and your selection of source for the quote is real sketchy. When I went there and tried to click the link it took me nowhere, I think they missed putting the reference with anchor. So looked it up on Pew research and the closest I could find was this Nearly Half of U.S. Adults Say Dating Has Gotten Harder for Most People in the Last 10 Years

View attachment 379953

That is not the question your article highlights, it says nothing about the percentage worrying, it is not only men that make up the 65% the question was asked regardless of sex. It is perfectly possible to find something becoming harder without worrying about it.

It is not related to age either:

View attachment 379955

So those men who have it easiest seems to be young and democrat/lean democrat.

"Young singles on the dating market – those ages 18 to 29 – are more likely than their older counterparts to say they would take the direct approach by proactively contacting the person. About half in this age group (49%) say this, compared with 37% of daters ages 30 to 49 and 34% of those 50 and older."


If you know which Pew research finding they meant, if it is this or something else, could you point it out directly?



If the numbers are presented out of context and misrepresented it is really hard to draw any hard conclusions. The article I found showed that

Click to expand...

I can't speak to their broken link in the one article, however the other Vice article's link to their source works:

On page 8
An online survey showed that perceptions of being labeled as "creepy" significantly impacted American men's willingness to interact with women, and 44% of 1000 men reported that this fear reduces their likelihood of initiating contact (Evie-Magazine, 2022), especially single men (~53%). Ambiguous social rules contributed to this hesitation, as many men expressed uncertainty about which behaviors might be perceived as inappropriate or "creepy" which hampered their contact initiation and social and romantic engagement.

ThatRobGuy said:

I can't speak to their broken link in the one article, however the other Vice article's link to their source works:

https://gmwpublic.studenttheses.ub.rug.nl/4726/1/BSC-ThesisS4637917Approach-anxietyFinal-B.pdf

On page 8
An online survey showed that perceptions of being labeled as "creepy" significantly impacted American men's willingness to interact with women, and 44% of 1000 men reported that this fear reduces their likelihood of initiating contact (Evie-Magazine, 2022), especially single men (~53%). Ambiguous social rules contributed to this hesitation, as many men expressed uncertainty about which behaviors might be perceived as inappropriate or "creepy" which hampered their contact initiation and social and romantic engagement.

Click to expand...

So one no reference and one bachelor thesis' secondary reporting of a online survey made by an alt-right womens magazine (I don't have any reason to believe it to be generalizable to the population in general, Evie Magazine - Wikipedia). The original webpage referenced in the bachelor thesis is not available anymore.

ThatRobGuy said:

It's not that they'd rather talk to AI, it's that they're doing because it's gotten to the point where real guys won't talk to them or initiate contact.

Per the links I posted earlier:
What complicates things further is that many women say they actually want to be approached. The same report found that 77 percent of women ages 18 to 30 hoped men would do it more often, along with 68 percent of women in their 30s.

-- meanwhile, over 60% of guys are literally afraid to approach women, out of fear of being labelled "toxic" or "creepy" or "inappropriate"


That tells me that the more extreme postmodern feminists have hijacked the situation to a degree, and helped create an outcome that many other women are dissatisfied with.

Click to expand...

Thank you for mansplaining it.

Stopped_lurking said:

So one no reference and one bachelor thesis' secondary reporting of a online survey made by an alt-right womens magazine (I don't have any reason to believe it to be generalizable to the population in general, Evie Magazine - Wikipedia). The original webpage referenced in the bachelor thesis is not available anymore.

Click to expand...

So which kinds of sources would you accept for this?

Just so we can save time before I go chasing down a bunch of links that delve into this subject.

Is your position genuine curiosity about this phenomenon?, or is it push back on the assertion that modern feminism is partly responsible for why relationships/dating are on the decline?

ThatRobGuy said:

So which kinds of sources would you accept for this?

Just so we can save time before I go chasing down a bunch of links that delve into this subject.

Is your position genuine curiosity about this phenomenon?, or is it push back on the assertion that modern feminism is partly responsible for why relationships/dating are on the decline?

Click to expand...

I was just pointing out that your sources were not well chosen, and that your argument from those sources therefore is dubious. You even made a point that you had given them. It is not on me to make your argument for you.

Stopped_lurking said:

I was just pointing out that your sources were not well chosen, and that your argument from those sources therefore is dubious. You even made a point that you had given them. It is not on me to make your argument for you.

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60% of managers who are men are uncomfortable participating in a common work activity with a woman, such as mentoring, working alone, or socializing together. That’s a 32% jump from a year ago.

They are:

12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings
9x more likely to hesitate to travel together for work
6x more likely to hesitate to have work dinners


“When I speak with younger men, and this is in and out of the workplace, they’re just swearing off women,” said Christine Hart of Calgary, who describes herself as a gender intelligence expert. “Not in droves, but socially they are so confused by what’s going on out there and they’re scared that something could be taken the wrong way.

“So guys are coming together and saying ‘I don’t even interact with women anymore, I barely make eye contact,'” said Hart, who does presentations to corporations and public forums to help improve understanding and communication between men and women.

“Now it has become even harder in the sense that one false, unconscious move and you have been categorized … there is no spectrum from being someone who just flirted badly or made a faux pas versus a serial rapist.

“And right now, they are fearful that social media vigilantes are not looking at it as a spectrum, that if you have done something even on the mild side of the spectrum, you are now being categorized as a rapist or a molester.”


Fear of being considered “creepy” may be holding single adult men back on their chances for romance. That’s according to new research1 from Blaine Anderson, a dating coach for men, whose study found that despite increased interest in attaining a committed relationship since the pandemic, the majority of American men (69%) say fear of being labeled “creepy” impacts how they interact with women, and almost half of American men (44%) say fear of being labeled “creepy” reduces the likelihood they interact with women, romantically or otherwise.


However, this better understanding of what constitutes sexual harassment seems to have hurt women in the workplace. The study found that 10% of men and women said “they expected to be less willing than before to hire attractive women.” Furthermore, 21 percent of men admitted that they would be reluctant to hire women for jobs that required close interactions with men, a six percent increase from the previous year.
These figures should sound extremely worrying for women planning to apply to any job in the U.S. In fact, because of the increased anxiety around hiring women, women will be rejected from one out of the five positions they apply for in the U.S. Even when women are able to get employed, they may go through an uncomfortable experience in the workplace. The same study shows that 27 percent of men now avoid one-on-one meetings with their female co-workers.


The advice for men struggling with the approach is generally terrible with Red Pill nonsense on one hand and feminist “rules” on the other (there's the two buckets I mentioned earlier). It’s enough to make your head spin. Seriously, look at dating advice articles written by women on this site and you’ll see all kinds of conflicting advice. “Get off dating apps and go talk to women.” “Don’t bother her while she’s just trying to get through her day.” “Go to bars and clubs to meet women, that’s where they’re open to it.” “Stop trying to meet women at bars and clubs if you want a real relationship. Instead meet higher quality women outside of those venues.” See the contradictions?

ThatRobGuy said:

Not harassing women is not enough.

To make the workplace safe AND equal, we need more men to mentor and sponsor women.

leanin.org

60% of managers who are men are uncomfortable participating in a common work activity with a woman, such as mentoring, working alone, or socializing together. That’s a 32% jump from a year ago.

They are:

12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings
9x more likely to hesitate to travel together for work
6x more likely to hesitate to have work dinners

Click to expand...

Ok, how is this connected to your thesis?

ThatRobGuy said:

#Metoo movement causing confusion in many men, fear of missteps with women: experts

They keep falling like dominoes: Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer, Patrick Brown and most recently members of the Canadian pop-rock band Hedley, high-profile or celebrity men who have been accused of sexual misconduct as the #metoo and #timesup movements continue unabated. Experts say these social...

toronto.citynews.ca

“When I speak with younger men, and this is in and out of the workplace, they’re just swearing off women,” said Christine Hart of Calgary, who describes herself as a gender intelligence expert. “Not in droves, but socially they are so confused by what’s going on out there and they’re scared that something could be taken the wrong way.

“So guys are coming together and saying ‘I don’t even interact with women anymore, I barely make eye contact,'” said Hart, who does presentations to corporations and public forums to help improve understanding and communication between men and women.

“Now it has become even harder in the sense that one false, unconscious move and you have been categorized … there is no spectrum from being someone who just flirted badly or made a faux pas versus a serial rapist.

“And right now, they are fearful that social media vigilantes are not looking at it as a spectrum, that if you have done something even on the mild side of the spectrum, you are now being categorized as a rapist or a molester.”

Click to expand...

No numbers, how am I supposed to interpret this?

ThatRobGuy said:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220615005290/en/Majority-of-American-Men-Fear-Being-Deemed-Creepy-According-to-New-Research

Fear of being considered “creepy” may be holding single adult men back on their chances for romance. That’s according to new research1 from Blaine Anderson, a dating coach for men, whose study found that despite increased interest in attaining a committed relationship since the pandemic, the majority of American men (69%) say fear of being labeled “creepy” impacts how they interact with women,

Click to expand...

This seems to reference the Pew Research article I linked before (the link leads to the same article), that was not even close to the question being asked.

ThatRobGuy said:

and almost half of American men (44%) say fear of being labeled “creepy” reduces the likelihood they interact with women, romantically or otherwise.

Click to expand...

This is the same number presented in the bachelors thesis, and there is no link to the research itself. Did you just give me the same sources again?

ThatRobGuy said:

Was The #MeToo Movement Effective? Yes, And Now Men Avoid Hiring Attractive Women

In theory, #MeToo supporters have a solution for everything, but in practice, data shows us that we do not get the...

www.thegazelle.org

However, this better understanding of what constitutes sexual harassment seems to have hurt women in the workplace. The study found that 10% of men and women said “they expected to be less willing than before to hire attractive women.” Furthermore, 21 percent of men admitted that they would be reluctant to hire women for jobs that required close interactions with men, a six percent increase from the previous year.
These figures should sound extremely worrying for women planning to apply to any job in the U.S. In fact, because of the increased anxiety around hiring women, women will be rejected from one out of the five positions they apply for in the U.S. Even when women are able to get employed, they may go through an uncomfortable experience in the workplace. The same study shows that 27 percent of men now avoid one-on-one meetings with their female co-workers.

Click to expand...

How is this relevant to your thesis?

ThatRobGuy said:

https://medium.com/write-a-catalyst/a-reaction-to-45-of-men-age-18-25-have-never-approached-a-woman-in-person-d3ee0680a7a5

The advice for men struggling with the approach is generally terrible with Red Pill nonsense on one hand and feminist “rules” on the other (there's the two buckets I mentioned earlier). It’s enough to make your head spin. Seriously, look at dating advice articles written by women on this site and you’ll see all kinds of conflicting advice. “Get off dating apps and go talk to women.” “Don’t bother her while she’s just trying to get through her day.” “Go to bars and clubs to meet women, that’s where they’re open to it.” “Stop trying to meet women at bars and clubs if you want a real relationship. Instead meet higher quality women outside of those venues.” See the contradictions?

Click to expand...

"There’s also a big elephant in the room, the Pandemic, which hit at a crucial time for the 18-to-25 cohort."

"Again, 45% of men 18–25 have never approached a woman in person tells us nothing about the reasons why, or if they’re having success to any degree by other means. It only tells us they haven’t been approaching women in person for dates.

If men aren’t attending college and are opting out of the workforce in their prime dating years, and if they aren’t frequenting other traditional establishments where people meet romantic partners in person, how are they supposed to approach these women for dates? Furthermore, if they lack the social experience during their formative teen years and lack the male role models to show them the path, how are they supposed to know how to read signals and make a successful approach?"

This article is not terribly supporting of your contention that young men are lonely just beacuse they are pushed to one of two extremes because of feminists. It is also seemingly based on a tweet,

bèlla said:

*Is it a fad or sign of the times?
*What needs to happen to stop the outflows and bring men and women together once more?
*How should Christians respond? For non Christians, what would you do?

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Hello! It's a sign of the End Times, as prophesied in the Bible 2 -Timothy 3:1-5.

The church needs to instantly jettison many of the modern rubbish teachings of man (2 Timothy 4:3) and return to a pure Biblical World view on this issue and every issue. The gospel is counter-cultural on just about every issue, that's part of it's power, it's offence and the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

God Bless All

ThatRobGuy said:

That was from the article from TheFeminismProject website... So are you suggesting that modern Feminism movements have become a caricature of feminism.

My paraphrasing summary removed the flowery language and expressed what the article was suggesting in practical terms.

This is what their website said:
Men can support feminist discourse not only by acknowledging their privilege but also by engaging in educational opportunities that elucidate the ways in which traditional masculinity can be harmful. This could take the form of workshops, discussions, or platforms that promote awareness of gender issues and foster a culture of respect and equality.

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1. Why, aside from the fact that they published an article that you think demonstrates your point, should we consider "TheFeminismProject.com" to be an authoritative voice in the feminist community? It appears to be someone's personal blog.

2. Your characterization does not "express what the article was suggesting on practical terms" - it is, in fact, a caricature. Yes, that quote does appear in the article, but you're taking it completely out of context.

ThatRobGuy said:

I don't think they're perfect 1-for-1 replacements. I was suggesting that any of the things that would get someone the label of "toxic" in a real world interaction would pick up the same label if occurring in an online interaction.

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People don't need third spaces to learn what does and doesn't count as "toxic" behavior. They need third spaces in order to form real relationships (both platonic and romantic) with real people.