I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

BelieveItOarKnot · Sunday at 6:44 PM

timothyu said:
How does one become unaware of self and the concept of opposites when both exist? How does one reverse what occurred in the Garden?

Nothing gets reversed. God always meant for there to be a first, natural person, and after that, the spiritual. 1 Cor. 15:42-46

BelieveItOarKnot · Sunday at 6:45 PM

JulieB67 said:
Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

At least you admit you believe this verse to be true and applies to everyone in Christ.

I'll leave it at that...

the lust of the flesh remains to be resisted

the part you always ignore and excuse

repeated ad-patience infinitum

timothyu · Sunday at 7:06 PM

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Nothing gets reversed. God always meant for there to be a

Of course. We would first have had our animal instinct along with His spirit. We were hybrids.

JulieB67 · Sunday at 11:29 PM

BelieveItOarKnot said:
the lust of the flesh remains to be resisted

the part you always ignore and excuse

repeated ad-patience infinitum

It's really simple, do you believe this verse to be true or not? You said you believe every Word.

Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

"The lust of the flesh remains to be resisted"

If you really believe this verse to be true, what is Paul telling us to do to not fulfil the lust of the flesh? If you can't or won't answer than you are purposely ignoring that verse. Why? You don't believe someone can Walk in the Spirit? If that's true than you don't even believe Paul here.

And what part am I ignoring? I've never denied it's a daily thing to pick up the cross, deny ourselves, to Walk in the Spirit and renew our minds. What is your problem with those teachings? And why have you given up on those teachings apparently or did you ever believe them?

No one will ever be sinless in the flesh. That's why it is a daily thing that we renew our minds, etc.

What do you think Christ means when he tells someone to "Sin no more'? He's wasting his time? Apparently that's what you believe as well according to your doctrine. But I'm sure that's another question you will ignore.

martymonster · Monday at 12:06 AM

bèlla said:
The Parable of Lazarus and The Rich Man says otherwise. He was not in heaven.

~bella

Tell me bella, what do you think of all those people who say that they died and went to hell and were sent back by Jesus to warn others?

David Lamb · Monday at 2:12 AM

martymonster said:
Tell me bella, what do you think of all those people who say that they died and went to hell and were sent back by Jesus to warn others?

Which people are you talking about? People mentioned in the bible? I cannot think of anybody in the bible who was sent back from hell for any reason. Certainly the rich man in the parable was not sent back. He didn't even ask to be sent back. He asked that the beggar Lazarus should be sent from Abraham's bosom to warn others.

BelieveItOarKnot · Monday at 4:34 AM

timothyu said:
Of course. We would first have had our animal instinct along with His spirit. We were hybrids.

We were and still are bound in our flesh with our enemy, Romans 11:32, Eph. 2:2, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

BelieveItOarKnot · Monday at 4:49 AM

JulieB67 said:
It's really simple, do you believe this verse to be true or not? You said you believe every Word.

Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

"The lust of the flesh remains to be resisted"

Why are you continuing to try to justify the lust of the flesh? Are you seriously reading past the obvious that badly?

JulieB67 said:
If you really believe this verse to be true, what is Paul telling us to do to not fulfil the lust of the flesh?

There is a track of sin/evil. It is always in mind. Mark 7:21-23. Evil comes from within because it is within. We never rid ourselves of this fact.

Then it (can and does) progress to word.

Then it (can and does) culminate in deed.

And it's ALL of the devil.

There is no justification to any of the above.

JulieB67 said:
If you can't or won't answer than you are purposely ignoring that verse. Why? You don't believe someone can Walk in the Spirit? If that's true than you don't even believe Paul here.

We've done this drill so many times I've lost count.

You think by walking in the spirit you no longer have evil within, which requires and mandates complete eradication of applicability of Mark 7:21-23 (and many many likewise), that you are sinless and that is never the case. Which you do sqeak out from time to time. I'm pretty sure you think evil only comes from within from time to time, when you happen to slip. And you'd probably never attribute it to our adversary.

Evil still comes from within because it is within. It's the essence of our wrestling in this present life. And God engages that evil in resisting fashions. Unless you do not know God as the Chastiser and Tribulation bringer in which case you haven't stepped into the arena of belief yet, in real genuine terms. We usually find this out later, after belief. And after futile efforts thinking to ourselves we're sinless, others are not, and being lying hypocrites about it, which is the first step into God's chastisements.

All these lalala folk who think they're legally obedient and 1000% faithful are actually in the process of being blinded lying hypocrites in the chastisement process.

JulieB67 said:
And what part am I ignoring?

You're so funny. It's quite entertaining.

JulieB67 said:
I've never denied it's a daily thing to pick up the cross, deny ourselves,

Oh look! You got warm again. There is a reason we have to go thru this. Because evil does come from within and it's within to come from.

JulieB67 said:
to Walk in the Spirit and renew our minds.

Indeed. Tell the "truth"

JulieB67 said:
What is your problem with those teachings?

No issue at all, but you might understand there is a very strong reason your positions want to see other people burned alive forever. It's the evil present within. No one in their right mind would want that to happen to anyone.

Yet the majority of the so called "church" puts this burn them alive forever standard at the top of their flag poles whilst simultaneously doing a likewise pile on of continual and false self justifications, selling their members out of the contrived torture forever fate that other people are supposedly going to have, and perpetual renewals to their so called sinlessness, them not being "like other people (Luke 18, Log in eye intact)."

It's quite the faith folly. Quite sick, actually.

JulieB67 said:
No one will ever be sinless in the flesh.

And I'll leave it right there
Evil present within has nothing to say to me that I'd believe, no matter how much "walking in the spirit" is performed.

I'd just like to see "believers" tell the truth, which is an act of faith, and stop lying and trying to eternally kill or torture our neighbors.

In the meantime there is evil within to TORTURE

BelieveItOarKnot · Monday at 5:29 AM

Benaiah468 said:
I'm totally fine with the fact that we see things differently. It's nice that we at least agree on saving people.

By the way, you've avoided my questions to you a couple times now about where you are at with the fate of unbelieving people. Are you in the temporarily burn / torture them into submission camp of UR or...? It would seem that is the case by your responses:

Benaiah468 said:
my G-d triumphs with far greater power: He does not destroy the creature, but He destroys

Feel free on how the above applies to people.

As to this statement:

Benaiah468 said:
If one reads exceptions into that passage, one is engaging in eisegesis rather than exegesis.

It is not eisegesis to read the exceptions. Colossians does NOT eliminate the other scriptures, which is what you're trying to pull off.

Benaiah468 said:
In his writings, Gregory of Nyssa unequivocally taught universal restoration, which included the healing of the entire cosmos, all human beings, and explicitly also the author of evil (Satan)

Except there is no explicitly in the Bible regardless of what Gregory claims.

And I'm not a freewill advocate anyway. There is no way to rule out either the Will of God or the will of the adversary working within people as both are obviously, scripturally, the case.

And an automatic resisting will, of the devil, has no "free" to do otherwise OR we'd have an example in text. Satan was created to be a perfect DEVIL to do perfectly DEVILISH things. There was no choice involved. Probably even looked great on the outside, but oh that inside. Look out.

Benaiah468 said:
In the Epistle to the Colossians, there is not a single grammatical exception.

There is no requirement in Colossians to list the exemptions/exceptions as they are abundantly listed elsewhere in the scriptures. Colossians does NOT eliminate the other scriptures citing the fact that the devil and his messengers are heading to the fire, the LoF. Matt. 25 and several Rev. citings for example.

Were your position the case the statement of Colossians is all we need from the scriptures. We can toss the balance.

It would seem that saving people or devils from the LoF would have very little of themselves left intact to save.

God saves shells? Husks? Chaff? Probably not so much.

martymonster · Monday at 5:33 AM

David Lamb said:
Which people are you talking about? People mentioned in the bible? I cannot think of anybody in the bible who was sent back from hell for any reason. Certainly the rich man in the parable was not sent back. He didn't even ask to be sent back. He asked that the beggar Lazarus should be sent from Abraham's bosom to warn others.

I am referring to the numerous people that have claimed to have been sent back to warn people about. Not people in the bible.

JulieB67 · Monday at 7:47 AM

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Why are you continuing to try to justify the lust of the flesh?

So I was right in assuming that you would choose to ignore that verse and the teaching by Paul.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
We never rid ourselves of this fact.

I know we have two natures and again, Paul in that verse is telling us what one must do in order to overcome our fleshly nature on a daily basis. Again a verse you are choosing to ignore.

Here's a couple of more from him reiterating the very same thing.

Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Two more verses that you will ignore...

BelieveItOarKnot said:
We've done this drill so many times I've lost count.

We've done the drill where you continue to ignore verses, yes. Again, I've never ignored that we have two natures while in the flesh body. But you will continue to ignore teachings from all on how to handle it as Christians.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
You're so funny. It's quite entertaining.

More nonsense. I don't even know what I continue to try.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Tell the "truth"

Since when is posting scripture not telling the truth? I posted the verses about "walking in the Spirit and renewing our minds. What about those verses are untrue to you? Again, tell me. You keep refusing to do so.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
No issue at all, but you might understand there is a very strong reason your positions want to see other people burned alive forever.

Now I know I'm most liking wasting my time. That is an untrue statement against me. I don't want or believe people will be burned alive forever. I've never stated that.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
I'd just like to see "believers" tell the truth

Again, posting scripture is not telling the truth? And you once again ignore them meaning you are purposely ignoring them. Because if you don't, your doctrine completely falls apart.

BelieveItOarKnot · Tuesday at 7:56 AM

JulieB67 said:
So I was right in assuming that you would choose to ignore that verse and the teaching by Paul.

I know we have two natures and again, Paul in that verse is telling us what one must do in order to overcome our fleshly nature on a daily basis. Again a verse you are choosing to ignore.

Here's a couple of more from him reiterating the very same thing.

Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Two more verses that you will ignore...

We've done the drill where you continue to ignore verses, yes. Again, I've never ignored that we have two natures while in the flesh body. But you will continue to ignore teachings from all on how to handle it as Christians.

More nonsense. I don't even know what I continue to try.

Since when is posting scripture not telling the truth? I posted the verses about "walking in the Spirit and renewing our minds. What about those verses are untrue to you? Again, tell me. You keep refusing to do so.

Now I know I'm most liking wasting my time. That is an untrue statement against me. I don't want or believe people will be burned alive forever. I've never stated that.

Again, posting scripture is not telling the truth? And you once again ignore them meaning you are purposely ignoring them. Because if you don't, your doctrine completely falls apart.

Look, we've beaten this subject to death so many times it's ridiculous.

You simply don't get the picture.

Your position only wants the good side of the ledgers and completely ignores, excuses and overlooks the fact that evil really does come from within. You continually seek to ignore that fact and pretend it's not there and that God blesses you/evil intact anyway when that simply is not the case.

The "walk in the spirit" means being truthful, at a minimum. No believer who is thinking anywhere remotely close to clearly should be justifying the evil present in themselves or anyone else, ever.

Jesus IS a Two Way street. Uplifting the good and DAMNING the bad, simultaneously, in everyone.

You do understand the word simultaneously, I hope.

JulieB67 said:
I don't want or believe people will be burned alive forever

I chalk that effort up to the very real EVIL that is within people, promoting the exact opposite of Jesus' Command to love our neighbors as ourselves. You don't want to believe they'll burn alive forever, but you still believe it whilst simultaneously letting yourself off the hook for the same internal evil.

It's mere hypocrisy in its ripest form.

Evil will always resist God's Words. Evil will always want the NICEY NICE side of God's Words only. Evil never wants to hear the truth, that we ALL bear the condemnation of God in our own flesh that eventually results, sooner or later in our DEATH. Romans 8:10. That's reality and that's the truth. It's the same reason we consider ourselves already DEAD, Col. 3:3, and are to literally HATE our own life.

Show me a disciple by the HATE of their own lives, Luke 14:26, and they'll perhaps finally be in disciple land. Til then, it's LA LA LA LA land for anyone who can't see the obvious, with their head stuck in the sand. You seem to be creeping up on it, admitting you are maybe sometimes a sinner, that you;re not perfect, that you have two natures that you'll never pin on our adversary, the tempter. I seriously doubt you'll ever figure out that you bear the tempter in your own flesh, our enemy, our adversary. That's a big bite of the truth sandwich. Too much for most. I get it. Our adversary is no newcomer and no picnic, but Mark 4:15 is just as real today as it was in the garden of Eden and as it was when Jesus Spoke the fact.

That ALL being said, please understand I don't see, believe or think that a single person will burn alive forever, so don't take a berating personal. What I say to the evil in you I've said and continue to direct to my own sorry hide. The evil in us all deserves its due at all times, in all places. And I am sincerely waiting for the end of the devil and his messengers.

Trying to get the devil to tell the truth will never happen. It actually forces him to resist it all the more and he always ends up dragging his victims off kicking and screaming, but NEVER telling the truth.

JulieB67 · Tuesday at 8:10 AM

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Look, we've beaten this subject to death so many times it's ridiculous.

Only because you continue to ignore verses. I have stated many times I know we have two natures. I have not ignored that fact. You are the one that believes we are left with only one.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
The "walk in the spirit" means being truthful, at a minimum.

Why do you continue to ignore this verse's clear meaning and intent

Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Because your doctrine doesn't believe this verse to be true. You've implied that many times. Even when told this is done on a "daily" basis because we are in the flesh. You can't even answer to this verse. Which is very telling. And you accuse others of not being truthful.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
but you still believe it

That's a lie. I don't believe anyone is going to burn forever.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
letting yourself off the hook for the same internal evil.

More lies...

timothyu · Tuesday at 9:30 AM

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Jesus IS a Two Way street. Uplifting the good and DAMNING the bad, simultaneously, in everyone.

Only because mankind took it upon ourselves to understand first that there was good and bad, then pass it along while blaming some one/thing else for our acting that way. Jesus puts the responsibility back on us.

boughtwithaprice · Tuesday at 5:35 PM

Jeff Saunders said:
So you believe Acts 3:23 is heresy? Is this the only verse you believe is heresy or are there more?
You say " Angelic being were created as pure spirit and full knowledge and will". " God withheld nothing from them, and they still chose to rebel. " Can you show me where in scripture that is found. We are never in scripture when they were created, let alone how God/ Jesus did it.
I find it sad that you think so little of the Trinity that they would create this wonderful cosmos, with full knowledge of the beginning and the end, having a desire/ will that all would be in fellowship with them and not have what it takes to get the job done, that Jesus would come to seek and save the lost and still lose most to the enemy, he must be a poor strategist.
I do not believe any human would ever choose " hell " , even if there was such a place of eternal torture, they may reject the god of religion, but they have never heard of the true Gospel to reject it, we were created to be in fellowship with the Trinity, do you believe that was just to hard for the Godhead?

I don’t see how you would think that I believe
Acts 3:23 is heresy.

Have you ever met an angel or a demon? If you had then you would know that they are much more intelligent than we are. Demons can alter your emotions and perspective by placing thoughts and feelings inside of you that can manipulate you, unless you know what is happening. The devils greatest trick is to get you to think that he does not exist.
The thoughts are all mine you say. I can tell the difference between good and evil. Oh really? Wasn’t that what the devil promised Adam and Eve? You shall be as gods knowing good and evil?
The only way we overcome the devil is through humility. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Jesus says if a man come after me, let him first deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. We then follow those that have followed Christ. These were the Apostles, and they passed on their Apostolic authority through the laying on of hands over the last 2000 years.
You seem to claim that you can proclaim all mysteries of scripture yourself and are qualified to judge good and evil. Is that really your position? You do realize that was the deal for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge? Do you think that is a good thing?

God gives us free will, but no one chooses heaven or hell. We choose to love God through humility and subjecting ourselves to His one holy catholic and apostolic church, or we proclaim our pride and say” I have all knowledge of good and evil, I need not these apostles. I know better than anyone that has ever lived. The Holy Spirit speaks directly to me” Do you think that is a good idea? It is not what Christ taught or what is written in scripture.

Satan loved himself and refused to sacrifice a part of himself to achieve greater glory, as we are called to do. His battle cry was “we will not serve” When he chose that position, he did not choose hell, but since he refused humility, there was no space found for him in heaven. God had to cast him out and put him in hell. Satan wanted to use his free will apart from God, and God gave him exactly what he wanted. Scripture tells us that there was a Great War in heaven with Michael and his angels vs Satan and his. Satan lost and was cast out
God created man in His image to take the place of Satan and his minions and fill their place in heaven. We cannot choose heaven. We can choose to love God and humble ourselves in self denial or choose to follow Satan and exalt ourselves. God decides who goes to heaven or hell. Scripture says that he gave all that call on his name the power to become the sons of God, not a guarantee of heaven. We have to choose to take the path of poverty, contempt and humility. Satan wants us to follow him in wealth, vain glory and pride. If we choose pride, we cannot expect to have any inheritance in heaven

Jeff Saunders · Tuesday at 8:34 PM

boughtwithaprice said:
I don’t see how you would think that I believe
Acts 3:23 is heresy.

Have you ever met an angel or a demon? If you had then you would know that they are much more intelligent than we are. Demons can alter your emotions and perspective by placing thoughts and feelings inside of you that can manipulate you, unless you know what is happening. The devils greatest trick is to get you to think that he does not exist.
The thoughts are all mine you say. I can tell the difference between good and evil. Oh really? Wasn’t that what the devil promised Adam and Eve? You shall be as gods knowing good and evil?
The only way we overcome the devil is through humility. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Jesus says if a man come after me, let him first deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. We then follow those that have followed Christ. These were the Apostles, and they passed on their Apostolic authority through the laying on of hands over the last 2000 years.
You seem to claim that you can proclaim all mysteries of scripture yourself and are qualified to judge good and evil. Is that really your position? You do realize that was the deal for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge? Do you think that is a good thing?

God gives us free will, but no one chooses heaven or hell. We choose to love God through humility and subjecting ourselves to His one holy catholic and apostolic church, or we proclaim our pride and say” I have all knowledge of good and evil, I need not these apostles. I know better than anyone that has ever lived. The Holy Spirit speaks directly to me” Do you think that is a good idea? It is not what Christ taught or what is written in scripture.

Satan loved himself and refused to sacrifice a part of himself to achieve greater glory, as we are called to do. His battle cry was “we will not serve” When he chose that position, he did not choose hell, but since he refused humility, there was no space found for him in heaven. God had to cast him out and put him in hell. Satan wanted to use his free will apart from God, and God gave him exactly what he wanted. Scripture tells us that there was a Great War in heaven with Michael and his angels vs Satan and his. Satan lost and was cast out
God created man in His image to take the place of Satan and his minions and fill their place in heaven. We cannot choose heaven. We can choose to love God and humble ourselves in self denial or choose to follow Satan and exalt ourselves. God decides who goes to heaven or hell. Scripture says that he gave all that call on his name the power to become the sons of God, not a guarantee of heaven. We have to choose to take the path of poverty, contempt and humility. Satan wants us to follow him in wealth, vain glory and pride. If we choose pride, we cannot expect to have any inheritance in heaven

Maybe I clicked on the wrong post, did you say apokatastasis was heretical? If not I am sorry.
Can you show me what post I said that " I can proclaim all mysteries of Scripture and are qualified to judge good from evil"
If God decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, why are we told to choose this who you will serve?
The idea that God chooses those who go to heaven and who goes to hell is a Gnostic teaching. The Gnostics believed that God chose only a few and if you were chosen you were given the secret knowledge of how to get to heaven, all those God did not choose do not get a choice, kind of like the Calvinist God chooses a few to go to heaven the rest get hell.

bèlla · 2026-06-03T03:52:48-0500

martymonster said:
Tell me bella, what do you think of all those people who say that they died and went to hell and were sent back by Jesus to warn others?

I don't believe them or the ones who say they went to heaven. But my faith isn't strengthened by consensus.

~bella

David Lamb · 2026-06-03T04:11:43-0500

martymonster said:
I am referring to the numerous people that have claimed to have been sent back to warn people about. Not people in the bible.

OK, in that case let me re-word my question. Where in the Bible are we given the slightest hint that anybody in hell is sent back to earth to warn other people? These words from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus seem to be against such a notion:

(Luk 16:30) And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
(Luk 16:31) But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

BelieveItOarKnot · 2026-06-03T05:30:25-0500

timothyu said:
Only because mankind took it upon ourselves to understand first that there was good and bad, then pass it along while blaming some one/thing else for our acting that way. Jesus puts the responsibility back on us.

There is no need to blame people for what they are.

Zero amount of "responsibilities" is going to change our short term terminal state:

Planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, by God no less, bound to the spirit of disobedience that is not us.

Give it up.

Even amongst URists there are certain ones who think and promote that our so called "unsaved" neighbors will burn til they turn. Obviously they think more highly of themselves than others.

Zero amounts of work will justify anyone. Better to just tell the truth:

Luke 18:
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

BelieveItOarKnot · 2026-06-03T05:37:54-0500

boughtwithaprice said:
God gives us free will

boughtwithaprice said:
Demons can alter your emotions and perspective by placing thoughts and feelings inside of you that can manipulate you

You have a classic fallacy above. There is no freewill to avoid internal temptations and various forms of manipulations by our adversary. NO ONE is exempt from that working.

Evil thoughts defile EVERYONE, thee sole exception being Jesus.

No amount of freewill avoids evil coming from within in the form of evil lawless thoughts that defile us ALL, down to the last one. And all of that is in fact courtesy of our ADVERSARY and his own.

None freewilly themselves out of this mess.

Mark 7:21-23

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